September Thoughts

from StarControl Forums

Better late than never...

 

Thoughts on the September Update

 

Reading down the PDF from top to bottom, my thoughts are as follows:

 

Alpha Centauri III UI screenshot – Love the look so far! Orange is a prominent color in this.  Will the final color be customizable?  If not, please not this orange.  J

 

I echo my peers in calling for dots to represent crew throughout the game vs. a bar.

 

I really like that you focus on the planet and upper atmosphere in this screenshot.  I think it’s a great source of perspective, and will allow for lots of neat graphics. I like the level of zoom here!

 

I agree with the note about listing resources over 10% (x%).

 

Overall, I just really, really like this UI so far!  It’s got a lot of info, but it’s not presented in a cluttered fashion (See Master of Orion 3).  One of the best parts of planet exploration on SC2 was the useful-at-a-glance planet UI.  I’m glad to see that is being continued!  I even really like the mostly empty lower-right quadrant.  It’s nice to have some of the blackness of space showing through.  Again, adds nice perspective/ambiance.

 

I would like to hear even the basic arguments for bypassing this screen when a lander leaves vs. not.  My main question is why you would go back to it if you’ve done what you came for?  If there will be repeated landings on the same world for some reason, then by all means, make this the default return screen!

 

The Planet:

Talking about shadows or not, I’d say don’t waste the effort on them if they’re that much trouble. There is so much more to do, and it will help lower-end systems too.  If the lander floats, it should have a shadow.  If a critter floats, it could have a shadow right below it.  Other than that, I really don’t care, and wouldn’t even notice.

 

Aliens: The comment box says “Place holder test. Every alien will have its own text.”  I assume you mean “Font” instead of “text?”  If so, then hooray!  The different fonts are very important in establishing the character of a race.

 

Again, ditch the orange UI.  Thanks!  Blues/metallic/greys are always a good place to start.

 

I’m not going to be a die-hard on extensive 3-d backgrounds on the aliens.  There have been so many good games in the last few years that make great use of 2-d.  (See: Banner Saga, Battlefleet Gothic Armada, FTL/Halcyon 6 have no 3-d speech anywhere but play amazingly and with good story!) I’m good either way. 

 

Resources:

I am in LOVE with the glowies!!!  I really like how they light the surroundings – see the red one in lower left of screenshot.  I like the glow, the sparkles that are above some of them, and the lighting.  The colors could be different though.  Instead of doing all bright, consider what glowing maroon would look like, or plum, or others.  Don’t go more pastel, but you could go less bright colors and more jewel tone on some of it.

 

In regards to the camera angle and shooting critters, if you can nail the curved shooting represented here, I’d actually love it!  It would be different enough, and really set this gameplay apart.  I don’t think people would generally have a hard time with it either.  Sure they’re curving, but your brain still draws a straight line across the globe to the actual target.  I am so excited to play this part, even if you bundle it on its own!!

 

(P.S. don’t make it possible to shoot at and destroy the resources! That always bugged me about SC2!)

 

As for the screenshot as a whole, I really like where it’s going!!!  Day/night side! Planet looks big enough to really be fun exploring, but quick enough.  Love the clouds/atmosphere (something SC2 lacked).  Kicking up a little dust behind the lander adds to the realism too!

 

Shadows in this picture look really nice, though I just got done saying how they aren’t needed.  I’d still like the pic without them as long as the day/night stays, and you could probably get away with omitting most of the shadows if you have a dynamic enough atmosphere. (Playing World of Warcraft last night – I got lost in the skyboxes and distant weather!  Looked amazing to me.  I’ve never once looked for my own shadow, or that of a tree or critter in that game.)

 

Critters:

Grey sketches on a grey background aren’t the best for showing off differences, but there’s some good structural differences between many of these.  Will they be hard to put into the game though?  The scale of detail on some of these seems rather intricate, and I guess I have the celery monsters from SC2 stuck in my head, but how are you going to get all that detail into the critters?

 

Game Development:

I want some of those juicy stories you speak of!

 

The Great Debate Camp#1: Not a fan of the solar system idea, but that’s mainly because I was SO fond of the SC1/2 method.  I’ll be happy to try both though, of course.  Could the camera angle be less extreme than 45 degrees?  More like vertical minus 30 degrees?  I like the idea of the other ship being off the screen sometimes.  That’ll be dangerous, and allow for some fun off-screen kills, I’m sure!

 

In regards to the edge-bounce, is that re-considerable? How about a slight discoloration to visually indicate the edge of the field, and instead of bouncing off of it, if you enter it, your battery drains incredibly quickly and you slow down say, 75%?  That way it’s not an artificial bounce, but more of a natural drain on resources that would make you WANT to keep away from it, while adding a slight strategic layer in possibly forcing your enemy out into that sometimes.

 

The Great Debate Camp#2: I love the idea of other objects besides asteroids!!!  Please do this regardless of the camp.  Not tons, maybe 2-3 at most per map, but do it!!!  As mentioned, I’m a fan of camp 2 because it’s all I’ve known.

 

Ships:

1: Very cool, sleek, and I like the non-connected parts!

2:  LOVE this! Might be favorite! It projects personality all by itself!

3:  Glowy-center is nice, vertical alignment is a good change of pace. Will it turn on the axis of the glowing center?  Would be cool if it did!

4:  Ok.  Interested to see what alien inhabits it.  Not too memorable just from the picture.

5: Assuming 1st stage human ship?  Reminiscent of the original, so good job there!!!

6: Fully decked out human ship? Not a fan of the rotating rings in all of sci-fi (I realize the irony that it’s actual contemporary science though!) but if you have to do it, then this is pretty nice.  I like the mismatched colors on all of the modules.  Don’t homogenize them!

7: Big. Scary. Red.  I am going to want to play this! Looks like a counterpart to 15, which might also be related to 3.  If so, neat!  It’s a nice contrast to 15 as well, especially the colors.  Keep those colors!

8: My least favorite, honestly.  Reminds me of the cab from “The Fifth Element.”  Lelu Dallas Multipass!

9:  Not quite sure what to make of it, but it’s not bad. (massively helpful comment, I know! :) )

10: Odd.  In the spirit of Arilou?  I’m very interested to see what this will actually do in a fight.  Like taking a Porsche on a convoy mission to Iraq!

11: Stinky Space Garbage Ship?  That’s what I think of, and I like it!

12:  Symmetry, geometry and obvious engineering, it’s a great contrast to the others!!!

13: Almost didn’t see that little guy in there!  Hope it makes a big impression in combat though!

14:  Another vertical ship?  Nice!  Hard to tell enough details to make a more substantive comment.

15:  Big. Scary. Purple.  I am going to want to play this too.  Mostly to destroy 7, who is obviously a red-tinged-finless-ninny!  I’m going to grab a few 3’s to escort me and kick some space-butt!  Love this ship!

 

In summary, 4, 8, 9, 14 are ho-hum in static 2-d.  The rest are amazing and so distinct from each other!  I still want to see a giant block of hematite as a ship…would make for an awesome and stealthy foe in a space battle.

 

Thanks for a more detailed update!  I look forward to what comes next!

 

P.S. wallpapers are nice for early-stage.  Nothing much to say on the .mov except that I look forward to seeing more fleshed out when the time comes.

 

-Maogan

46,376 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from StarControl Forums Top

Frogboy, I just saw you read this! I must say, I sometimes doubt, but now I'm happy!!!

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Reply #2 from StarControl Forums Top

Good Review! =)

Loved the opinions on the ships! =3

Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from StarControl Forums Top

New founder reporting in. Thanks for finally launching Phase II! I am trying to get caught up to speed on the latest details. I already have a few words to say regarding the information available in the September vault file. I love the planet landing - Super Mario Galaxy and Geometry Wars 3 - games that use 3D objects as playable surfaces, has always been a guilty pleasure of mine and I've wanted to create a whole game centered on what was demoed for how planet landing works. (Think Rocket League, but on a sphere and with armaments/power-ups)

According to this article; http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/10/a-first-look-at-star-control-origins-gameplay-prequel-due-for-release-in-2h17/ - The concepts for multiplayer is outlined as follows; "We intend to make Super Melee a pretty big part of the game from a multiplayer point of view," Wardell told Ars. "It'll be an expansion on what was in Star Control 2, except we would like to support more sophisticated battle arenas and up to 8 players. We picture there being a lot of different modes for Super Melee, ranging from classic to Dota-style super melee."

But according to the September file there are only 2 battle modes currently under consideration (The Great Debate) and my heart sank;

I understand the desire for the nostalgia of 1 on 1 escort combats because that's what was in the original games, but keep in mind it was also the limitation of DOS. If we had today's technology in game design and Fred and Paul were to create Star Control today I doubt it would utilize a 1 on 1 escort style fighting system. I've always wanted to be able to control only my precursor ship and have all my escorts with me in battle simultaneously. I want to see fleet battles in real time. I understand what I'm proposing means creating AI behaviors for all the ships and scripts for how to engage each of the different ship types. It just makes sense to me logistically and realistically in conflict with an alien species were not going to sit around and duel like its medieval europe and settle our differences 1 duel at a time.

Another thing I loved about the September log is the openness in talking and comparing how other games and franchises do things. In that vein I wanted to highlight how I spent most of my gaming hours from most of 1995-2001. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT7-lTBQPag

Subspace was the first MMO that I'm aware of that was not a MUD. It was simple, fly around in giant 2D flat plane arenas from a top down perspective in one of 8 ships, collect power ups, compete for objectives, and defeat other players. Each zone (server) had a specific theme, and hosted hundreds of players, Matches could be as large as 40v40. Lots of different game modes, capture the flag, hold the flag, soccer, territories... I even made a Star Control themed zone and map once, though Subspace uses an energy management resource system so the whole crew/battery thing couldn't be emulated. (Your ship regenerates energy slowly, all weapons and power ups require energy. Energy is also your life. Lose it all and you die. So you have to balance firing your weapons and using your power ups and taking hits from the enemy that are going to deplete your energy.)

Star Control was my roots, Subspace was my flowering. So I guess you could say I like the concept of Camp #1 - but its sounds too limited. I like the multiple gravity wells, asteroids and debris, gas clouds, ion storms, that all from camp #2, but why couldn't all those be in Camp #1's vision too? Having the battle maps interesting and diverse would be fun. The only other point I want to re-stress is consider having more than 1v1 combat in these arenas for single player super melee.

Subspace solved the 'edge of the level' issue with just a physical barrier that you just bounce off. (If you were to try and leave the solar system in Camp #1's vision). But there were no planets. There were wormholes that had gravity wells though (warp you around the map). Subspace levels were more arcadey though in that there were just wall barriers in different configurations to create bases and arenas.

TL;DR Version; Consider Single Player with large escort vs escort fleet battles with AI controlled ships. Multiplayer with many diverse and competitive modes. Even something like the Sport of Kings - playing something akin to Rocket League in space but with combat melee ships. That could just be just one mode. Think of something like the idea of a mix of territory control and soccer - 4 goals in the battle map, have to control them, controlling them earns your team score over time. Scoring with the ball is done by taking it back to a goal you control and you earn points based on how many goals you control and have the teams compete to reach a point cap first. This could be done as 6v6 teams, 10v10. Whatever feels right.

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Reply #4 from StarControl Forums Top

+1 to Zyrekeb's concerns regarding multiplayer. It would be nice to know what Stardock's stance on this is currently, with what possible considerations are in place.

My thoughts on the matter:

  • singleplayer campaign can ship with 1v1 battles only (at least initially) though I'd be happy with 1v3 too
  • a future expansion can expand singleplayer campaign to 3v3 or higher
  • a future expansion can expand story-campaign to be multiplayer co-op allowing for 3v3 (3 humans vs 3 AIs)
  • multiplayer features 3v3, 5v5, or higher on initial release possibly with AI for any of the ships
  • initial release also allows for extensive scripting/modding that allows custom games with 3v3, 5v5, or higher (rocketball, capture-the-moon, etc)

 

Reply #5 from StarControl Forums Top

I hadn't noticed this post when it was made, another Subspace player!

Hi Zyrakeb.  I was "Disco Duck" in Death Star Battle Zone and my brother was "Indra", that legendary unbeatable dueling zone guy:-)

 

Reply #6 from StarControl Forums Top

Please, stop making your own feedback threads when there's an "official" one.

This forum is older than my great grand mother and doesn't have the ability to merge threads, plus there's only 1.35 mods here to do the clean up work. Think of them.

You are not better or more important than anyone else on here. Your feedback will be read and considered the same as everyone else's regardless if it's posted in an "official" thread or your own separate one.

BUT, by creating your own threads you only clutter the forum and making it harder for everyone, including Stardock to search and track things.

Think of others and not yourself first, please.

https://forums.starcontrol.com/479874/page/4/#3655853

Reply #7 from StarControl Forums Top

Quoting Hunam_, reply 6

Please, stop making your own feedback threads when there's an "official" one.

This forum is older than my great grand mother and doesn't have the ability to merge threads, plus there's only 1.35 mods here to do the clean up work. Think of them.

You are not better or more important than anyone else on here. Your feedback will be read and considered the same as everyone else's regardless if it's posted in an "official" thread or your own separate one.

BUT, by creating your own threads you only clutter the forum and making it harder for everyone, including Stardock to search and track things.

Think of others and not yourself first, please.

https://forums.starcontrol.com/479874/page/4/#3655853

Please do not discourage someone from posting feedback on the forums. While we encourage users to use the "official" posts and try to keep order as much as possible, if it's something that needs to be addressed then myself or one of the devs will take care of it. Thanks.

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