StarControl Forums
Reminder: All the screenshots are WiPs. If you hate them, remember that they will change as the game develops. If you love them, remember that they will change as the game develops.
(Can we get better ship artwork in the next update? The small picture in the PDF is very pixelated.)
Disclaimer: I fully understand that nothing in these is final and am just expressing my expectations, desires and ideas.
By static I mean the same every time.
Nevermind the angle comment - they are nearly identical in the vid and this concept pic. The lander going down the dune made it look like it's different at first glance. And "draw distance" in concept art pic is greater than in the vid. xD
The seamlessness of transitions gave me such a massive boner!! You guys are nailing it!! I'd wish to see the camera a bit more "bouncy"/"rubber-band'y" though. I love the screen shakes!!! The visual and sound feedback is very important for immersion!
So... A little more explanation...
Listen, Camp #1. We aren't blinded by nostalgia. If anything, we are upset with the fact that there hasn't been a 1v1 ship game as good as SC2 in the past 20 years. You want to give us Not Star Control. I don't want to play Not Star Control. I want to play Star Control, dammit!
Camp #2 is the one true camp because keeps the Star Control feel of a fighting game.
Ever play a fighting game where your opponent is offscreen (and not dying ala SSB)? They don't work. They aren't fun. They aren't fighting games.
Plus, you can't hit your target with a Druuge-like cannon very easily if they are off-screen, radar be damned. You limit the game by going with this mode.
Now if you guys go with Camp #2 and don't implement local multiplayer (which Camp #2 supports), I'm going to be pretty disappointed.
On the contrary, I think this actually expands the avenues that they can take with the game. I also think it's a bit disingenuous to completely discount the single player experience. Star Control 2 would not be the masterpiece it was if the only thing that shipped was the Super Melee. There, I said it.
I also think it's a bit disingenuous to completely discount the single player experience. Star Control 2 would not be the masterpiece it was if the only thing that shipped was the Super Melee. There, I said it.
My comments that pertain to SuperMelee involve both the ship combat in the main game and in SuperMelee. The main game's combat is a subset of SuperMelee. Even if I don't care for the main game, I care very deeply for SuperMelee.
Anyway... What camp are you?
I'm...
interested in the aforementioned "Sexy Work"
this need to be more looked at!
also... really? there was founders that thought that the old screenshots were the finished thing?
i didn't know! i must have skipped some areas of the forum! 
NOW! my Favorite Part!
ALIENS!
They have (the ones we have seen) the perfect mixture of Cartoony and Realism!
i mean, they do seem like colorful and (animation-wise) Energetic aliens! but at the same time, you feel they could be real (with minor differences)
now what i think, just balance the realism!, just add a little, yes, do fix the skin to make it less like "plastic" but don't go too far like adding shading on scales or something like that, in robotic aliens just add lots of Shine you know?
also it would be AWESOME if the aliens interacted with the environment! like with the sluggy-boi (i forgot the species name) of the screenshot, i can see a soda cup next to him, make him drink it and slurp a little (like a glutton) if you stay idle for too long!
and i don't think the scene must be 100% 3D just the character and some interactive things for him, the rest just do a 2D background (Look at the backgrounds for the new MOO (Masters of Orion)
The Critters are making me splooge! (FIRST TIME I USE THAT WORD! YEEEES!)
i can't wait to be one of the first to post a fanart of them on the net!!
The Ships are perfect! i can see NOTHING wrong with the Designs! (and i am intrigued by the... sequel <3)
And do not worry! i don't care for the problems! (that came out wrong) i mean, i care! i just don't let it take me down! (easy for me to say right?)
well, keep doing a great job guys! 
we are here supporting you all!
...also
maybe the races on the next month?
(=u=) my art hand is itching! <3
Fight on, Camp 2. My hunch is that Andrew is a Camp 1'er. Camp Oner? Camponer? That's why we get to play Not Star Control first.
From the document...
Star Control 1 and 2’s Super Melee were great but very exploitable and sometimes very annoying with battles that might only last a few seconds and annoying camera behavior due to camera switching due to the screen wrapping. ... A lot of people may have forgotten how frustrating the Super Melee battles in Star Control could be at times and this new implementation provides more opportunities for depth.
What was wrong with a little imbalanced balance? I understand you would want to eliminate lengthy hit-and-run battles, but aren't there other ways to solve that?
Still upset about an offhanded joke, whatever. Anyways...
UI - I like the direction this is headed. It's sharp and provides the information players need without being overwhelming. I get where the note about a planet having < 10% of a mineral is going, but think that % should be lowered. Assuming some minerals will be rare that is. Crew really needs to be dots though. It's a nod to the original games, and adds a sense of attachment to your crew.
Shadows on Planets - Don't care, not even a little. Put that budget into making the lander crew be dots.
Alien UI - I like the presentation, but the colours could use some adjustment. I don't think the 3D scenes would add much. Sure, they might grab my attention the first time I meet an alien race, but after that it's just background and I won't look at it too much. Spend the time and money on making the aliens themselves look as good as possible.
Resouces - I actually like this angle better, but can understand if it makes gameplay too clunky. I like the shape and the colours of the resources in the image, but something is off. Maybe it's the glow or the sparkles. Makes them look like radioactive candy. Maybe ditch the sparkles and turn down the glow a bit?
Melee - Camp 2 is right. Camp 1 should be forced to play Superman 64 until they submit and recognize the glory of Camp 2.
Ships - look good, nothing to see here.
Sure.
Here's my breakdown based on the exact text in the dev log. I love GREEN, I hate RED, and I'm ambivalent on YELLOW.
Camp 1:
Camp 2:
I did. That felt very much like Star Control. Is there supposed to be audio, or is that just me knowing it should be there? 
It looked pretty decent with all the intro zooms, but what about the outtro zooms?
I mentioned that I still think the alien is man spreading.
I find the planetary interface jarring compared to the rest of the art style. Its very technical looking. The graphs should be replaced with stylized animated icons. It would be great to lose the orange prison bars around the planet. Maybe replace it with something that Marvin the Martian would be looking through at the planet with, might be too cartoony. I am definitely in the camp of going back to the planetary screen to assess cargo, deal with story elements, and give a pause from losing your lander/crew. I think some shadowing to make the surface pop is necessary, otherwise it will come across very cartoony like super mario brothers. Which is fine as long as your interface blends with it.
For the Alien interface, I think the 2D background is fine. Just needs to animated and interesting. One mistake Star Control 3 made was spending way too many resources on, what ends up as a small part of the game. Definitely need to lose the orange prison bars. Maybe go with Comic Balloons or a more organic interface. But the UI needs to either blend better with the background or you need to separate them.
I like the creature placeholders. They are all very visually interesting and match the art style well. I am more interested in their size and ease to hit with my lander.
Seems like you want to many objects in super melee to go with Camp 2. The down side is that playing against a race similar to the mmrnmhrm would not be fun chasing them all over a solar system. While the screen wrapping could be abused it also was necessary to keep ships in combat. Where are those stupid fighters or limpets going to come from if I go careening off at high speed? The over the shoulder camera was in Star Control 3, but no one used it because it was impossible to fight really well.
I like all the ship designs except the one that looks like a few white pieces of plastic recycled from a 1960's TV. I do like the concept of a multi-ship cluster though. I also think that doing 14 ships well is huge over 28 mediocre ships. That was a problem in 2 & 3.
I do not think that lip synching is necessary. It's nice but most games just go with moving mouth and words, especially if you play any imported games. The only problem is if you do it now, you will have to include it in everything going forward.
Combat and planetary landings are the bulk of the game. Those have to be the best. Alien interaction needs to look good but its only like 10%-20% of the game.
Watched the movie, I thought the graphics would be better! (J/K). Actually the resolution was really low and difficult to make out details at 1080p. I felt that the overall feel of the interaction with the lander and the planet looked good. Would like a more amazing return ship animation, but I know that's not final. You should lose some crew if you stray outside the landing window box. I thought the time to land was perfect. The ships arrival was great and transition to orbit was great. I am not a fan of the UI for previously stated reasons. I also would not mind seeing my ship orbit the planet. I love my command ship. The ship interception looked ok. It would be nice to get a quick zoom and then alien interface.
Yes, trying to put a set of thoughts together. Right off the bat I don't like the little wiggle from the lander when leaving a planet. I also hope there will be a wooosh sound at that time. I don't really like the screen edges flashing when the enemy(?) ship is sighted. I need context for the transition to Truespace that I assume we are seeing at the start. I think the transition from solar system to planet is nice, as is the transition to the communication screen. The communication screen looks really good. The menu colours could be tweaked, but great otherwise.
Wow, this ship actually gives me a boner. I can't imagine what creature would pilot it... Eve from Wall-E?
Wow, this ship actually gives me a boner. I can't imagine what creature would pilot it... Eve from Wall-E?
Maybe in 3D it will look better. Right now it just sort of looks like a set of disposable Chinet. The only thing flying this puppy is some cold fried chicken.
Maybe in 3D it will look better. Right now it just sort of looks like a set of disposable Chinet. The only thing flying this puppy is some cold fried chicken.
I mean, if it gasses your ass...
I mean, if it gasses your ass...
It would need to be flown by cheese. 
The other ships I find really interesting. The two largest ones that are thematically similar with different finishes makes me want yo know their story. The one that looks like octahedron probably is a pain to drive but looks super interesting. Some look far more advanced than the human ships and the others look like they are technologically behind us.
This may be my biggest post ever. But before I go completely Kavik Kang, first let me plant my feet firmly in Camp 2 as I tackle my opinion on these warring tribes.
THE GREAT DEBATE
Given that I’ve been an advocate of alternate gameplay modes, this position will make me seem like I’m looking a gift horse in the mouth, but I feel this idea of system-wide combat goes against how melee should work in Star Control on a conceptual level, and I don't think it should be a focus even as an alternate arena style play mode.
The issue of scale will rear its head again as I explain why solar system combat presents a cognitive disconnect: it creates a situation where the physical scale of the game won’t correlate with its chronological scale. SC2 had this worked out 25 years ago by speeding up or slowing down the game clock based on the the gameplay scale: the more finite the scale became, the more the clock would slow down to real time. When the game moved to larger environments for system exploration or hyperspace travel, the game clock sped up to more accurately reflect the time spent traversing vast distances between planets or stars.
I’ve come to think that SCO’s “game timer” should include not just a date, but also a clock that shows how many minutes and hours are elapsing as you progress through the game to give the player a better sense of how the scale of time relates to their actions. The scale of everything is clearly grossly exaggerated in this game and I think there should be some neutral metric within the game to help center the player’s sense of time when they’re surrounded by so many wonky visuals whose scale is all over the place.
Both melee and planet exploration occur on a clock closer to real time, because as gameplay drills down from a much larger scale to a smaller one, time should slow down. This is a big reason why system-wide combat makes no sense to me: time and scale become completely disjointed.
Consider geological time. If you watched the movements of glaciers or continental drift in fast forward, it might not seem like they were moving only a few inches every year because you’d be watching them over the course of millions of years. Similar idea with space travel. In reality, it takes a long time to traverse a star system. In SC2, you might spend a few days exploring a star system. So if system-wide melee is adopted, you’re basically playing melee in fast forward because ships would be dogfighting around the system in mere seconds rather than days. Following?
This means battles would unfold over the course of years and I would imagine the individuals involved in the fight would get quite bored after dogfighting across across an entire star system for that long. I’d personally forget why I was even fighting and want to call it off after a few weeks had gone by. Melee should be restricted to a delineated combat arena, whether that means localizing it around a planet, an asteroid field, or even a star. It just makes sense to keep the ships fighting in close quarters rather than chasing one another halfway across a star system as though it’s their personal playground.
The angle debate should be a non-starter in the first place as I feel players should be able to decide the preferred viewing angle regardless of the combat style. I can’t make a final decision until I play, but I do favor a top down view, however that is just my opinion and I feel other views should be freely interchangeable options and up to the personal preference of each individual player.
RESOURCES & PLANET SURFACE
WASD movement and mouse aiming for lander gameplay gets a thumbs up from me. Seems like a natural control layout for this. The concept art of the lander firing lasers in a field of colorful minerals looks cute and sounds fun already.
The lander seems to have variable speeds of movement in the gameplay video, which makes me think you’re experimenting with not having a fixed rate of speed for the lander. Having a sense of movement with many degrees of acceleration and deceleration is great. Would be neat to have some upgrade that allows you to briefly turbo boost away from hostile lifeforms to outrun them if they’re really fast.
I could deal with not having shadows if the team could concentrate more on developing unique environmental features. Fog on swamp worlds, misty rain effects with droplets that hit the camera view and dribble down your viewscreen on stormy worlds, shimmering mirage effects and lens flares on hot desert worlds, different types of cloud cover as you descend to the planet, etc.
The concept art of the lander on a bioluminescent world at night is wonderful; clearly I’m not the only one fascinated with the nocturnal beauty of Pandora in Avatar!
VIDEO FEEDBACK
Really digging the seamlessness of the camera movements between areas of interest. Rather than cutting, it dollies around, zooms in and decreases the viewing angle for more of a command view as you approach things. It’s pretty cute how the ship zooms around out of sight to the far side of the planet once you approach it and enter orbit. Would be even more interesting if the camera followed right behind the ship to share the same orbital position and make it seem like you’re not viewing the planet remotely from the other side while your ship is behind the planet!
Curious about the debate over whether or not the gameplay should shift from orbital view back to system navigation after the lander returns to the ship. I feel it could go either way but I think it’s a clever idea to expedite gameplay by skipping the orbital screen once you return to the ship, so that you can get on with your next objective as quickly as possible.
I was thinking about this for several minutes and it led me down an interesting thought path about pace of gameplay, which got me to thinking about, strangely enough, the recent Doom reboot. When I first played it, I really wasn’t sure if I liked it because I was expecting something more like Doom 1992. The pace of Doom 2016 is so much more intense and unrelenting, but I grew to enjoy it the more I played because I’d get into a rhythm where I just wanted to keep moving and rip another group of demons apart without stopping to catch my breath, so to speak. How interesting might it be to apply that sort of pace to Star Control? What if the same idea could be applied to planet exploration to remove the monotony of stopping and landing on so many planets? If the pace of this mechanic could be sped up, maybe it wouldn’t be as boring.
Only reason I can think of to go back to orbital view in SC2 was if you were fleeing from danger on the surface and wanted to escape and attempt another landing somewhere else to avoid a threat. If that’s not as much of a gameplay element in SCO, maybe going back to orbital view isn’t really all that necessary?
One objection I have is the very start of the video with the initial view of the ship arriving from hyperspace into the system. I think it would be much more immersive if you punch through from hyperspace seamlessly with whatever view you already have. Basically, I don’t think the camera should ever really leave a downward or forward facing view. I don’t want to be looking from the side or rearward as I arrive somewhere; it feels like it takes you out of the action and becomes less personal when you’re viewing yourself from a different perspective. This was one of the reasons Half Life was so successful: you never leave a first person view of your surroundings to view yourself or any externalized cutscenes.
The alien encounter dialog screen looks like it’s coming along fantastically. I’m not terribly worried about UI and dialog screen design; the team clearly has a handle on it and nitpicking the details of colors, fonts, and preproduction artwork is a fool’s errand at this point. Seems a lot of time gets devoted to relentlessly scrutinizing details that are ultimately of little consequence. I trust the team’s judgment to make some great stuff and don't think overzealous nitpicking about a work in progress should be of significant influence for the development team.
SHIP CRITIQUE
Although we have seen these silhouettes already, it's great to finally see them in color. Although there is not much detail, that frankly doesn't bother me much as I'm happy to see they have very distinct and colorful shapes.
Can't find fault with the variety of designs; they’re all very different and will clearly distinguish one race from another. I recall how Valve Software devoted a lot of time to character silhouettes in Team Fortress 2 for exactly this reason, so that even from a distance players could innately identify one character class from another.
It is great to see that the colorful nature of the ships has been rekindled here. One thing that set Star Control apart from so many other space games was the extremely vibrant color palette, which included at least two very strong primary colors on all the ships. This contributed a great deal to helping distinguish their identity and physical orientation when they were far away both in combat and during navigation.
When you remember how SC3 shifted to a completely bland desaturated color palette, it serves to remind us yet another reason why the game was so underwhelming. It was as if they turned down the saturation fifty percent to make everything a tepid shade of gray.
And finally, I know how sausage and other meat products are generally made and it doesn't dissuade me from enjoying them in any way.
downloading now! I can't wait to crap all over it! (kidding)
I think I'll put my thoughts in a google doc, and maybe password protect it? It may be easier than trying to organize them in a post here.. Is that kosher?
Nevermind, decided to just put it here, don't wanna accidentally mess up. Feedback!
People already covered a lot of the detail stuff. I’ll drop some random thoughts that I feel are most important to me
- I’m glad someone noted the UI colors in the doc - Orange as a primary UI color seems like a major no-no to me. I think I get wanting to get away from “Every Other Space Game Blue” but it really feels like EVERYTHING IS A WARNING. As a note, I’m a professional ui/ux guy and this jumps out to me. Maybe in some places sure, but in some of these prototype screens/videos/mocks, the orange is just dominating.
- I personally like the super mario galaxy curved planet idea. Hard to tell how the shooting would work, but honestly I’m mostly into exploring vs shooting, so as long as it works somehow (even relatively lockon or very forgiving basic aiming and you just have to make sure you have the right weapon or something) I’d be happy
- I do REALLY think this needs controller support from the getgo. Classic controls are great, but it’s 2016 and if you’re zooming a spaceship around on a planet and I can’t use a controller? Uh.. problem.
Aliens:
Honestly, I’m most interested in good writing, conversation trees, and HUMOR. It would be nice if they were animated well, had good modeling, etc sure. And It would be nice if the yellow blob wasn’t as ugly…. But really, I hardly care as long as they are fun to talk to.
Now on to the great debate…
I’m just not into the Camp 1. Until we play it and it’s AMAZINGLY FUN…. I’m just not that into it.
1. I feel like it throws off my sense of scale (I always thought of the ships being represented larger when cruising around the system, but the battle scenes were a more accurate representation - but a fight all the way around the system? That doesn’t seem right. Think walking around the world map in an early FF game vs when you go into a random battle.)
2, I don’t want to bounce off the edge. Feels weird. Either I can fly off forever, or even looping around makes sense, but what exactly.. Am I bouncing off?
Now I don’t think the classic melee was great either, honestly. It’s crazy that you can fly around for minutes and have no idea where the other guy is and then see him in your corner and get a shot off and.. Well, you were going in opposite directions so you don’t see him for a while.
I do think it makes more sense to try and show both units as much as possible. But I feel why reinvent the wheel? Space Pirates and Zombies did a pretty good job of the type of combat I’d like to see, though they had a lot of units.
I don’t really know though. I feel like I could play 1 and it turns out it’s hecka fun. It probably depends on how well the physics works and if it’s really build into the combat and not just “there”
Either way, I think a slight angle is ok. I still want to feel like I’m in space. And YES the old battles could be SUPER FRUSTRATING. So I’m interested in actually playing it.
Now, ships and aliens? Well, yeah, I’d like to see a lot more. But I get the cost thing…. But can I ask if we can see more variety among these aliens? Like will EVERY ship we see be the exact same design? Or will they be customized.. Like even just different paint jobs, or maybe some have some satellites or slightly different placement of weapons, etc. I really think a game in 2016 requires a bit more variety and it’s kind of carazy to expect an alien civilization to only ever make one ship. How many models of cars do we have?
Anyway, hope some of that was helpful. I’m overall, quite pumped for the game.
PS. I also really like the camera movement between the views in the video. I almost want it to always feel like it's a 'single shot' down to zooming to the ship to show the aliens inside! But that might be asking a lot haha
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