Star Control vs SC2. Aliens.

Looks-wise, to me:

"iLien" vs Chmmr is a tie.

Scryve vs Ur-Quan is a tie.

Mukay beats Orz by a mile.

Tywom loses to Spathi.

"YouCanTrustHim" vs Zoq-Fot-Pik is a tie.

I feel like using earth-based phylogenetic trees is the wrong way to do this. I feel like Tywom vs. Thraddesh and Mukay vs. Supox gives much closer parallels in both cases, as far as the overall aesthetic. I could see the Tywom serving as an engineer aboard a Thraddesh vessel. That said, this definitely helps put the designs we've seen so far in good context.

Agreed. I felt like going with biological similarities would make more sense at this point in time when we know nearly nothing about new aliens. The point of this thread is to put SD alien work into more tangible perspective and I couldn't find them failing anywhere so far.

Feel free to make your own comparisons. It'd be interesting to see everyone's reasoning.

I'm not sure whether pairing and comparing images of SC aliens solely based on their physical characteristics is the best idea. Would it not make more sense to compare based on, say, how effectively the image supports/obscures the character of the race and its dramatic purpose? But to do that we would need much more extensive knowledge on the new aliens, and at least a basic notion of their roles in the plot.

I don't know about that. Despite the dated artwork I find the Ur-Quan (and especially the Kohr-Ah) superior. The first time I saw the Ur-Quan (when playing Star Control II), their image immediately made an impact, and my stomach dropped. Looking at the Scryve, I don't feel anything. The image is high quality, but I don't really know what to make of the creature yet.

Wow, you must really dislike the Zoq-Fot-Pik to say that

I strongly prefer the Zoq-Fot because they are much more surreal and alien compared to the more anthropomorphic YouCanTrustHim. That said, If he turns around to reveal a face of true eldrich horror on his backside, I'll change my mind.

As I mentioned before. I'm comparing them considering that little info that I have.

We know from the vault files that Scryve are bad 'cause they attacked Tywom and Tywom are weak (like Spathi), 'cause they need your help to fight Scryve off. They might not be the level of bad as Ur-Quan, but they look pretty ominous in their blood red environment + they look like they are cybernetically augmented (Reapers?). Their face, if you hadn't noticed, is hidden behind Santa beard and overall X-mas theme dilutes their threatening appearance.

You say your stomach dropped when you saw them the first time. I bet it wasn't just their appearance, but their voice also. Coupled with easily influenced young mind you get your strong perception of Ur-Quan... Ya feel me?

I don't care for them much. They weren't anything significant in SC2 story. Their Stinger sucked and the only interesting thing about them was their "surreal" Zebranky story. They look like future earthling's children toys to me. So does "YCTH".

Well, despite their blood red environment and my best efforts to block out the christmas props (which I had, in fact, noticed), they look rather tame. Their humanlike cybernetic shape doesn't help things either, and makes them reminicent of Overwatch cyborgs like Zenyatta...

...rather than anything reaper related. In any case, once we see more of them, they may yet turn out to be tantalising antagonists, but the only image we have right now, in my opinion, falls short of the giant eyed tentacular arachnid Ur-Quan.

Yeah, they were secondary to the story and their ship sucked, but their weird symbiotic relationship and interconnected dialogues made them more unique than even some of the major races. Along with the Mycon and Orz, their writing seems more experimental.

Well, Well.

More alien designs are needed for a more serious comparison, either way, love the idea

What about THIS guy!? Look at all those teeth! Who's HE compare to in the new game?!

Also, did you really get "aquatic" from the ORZ? Maybe I'm insane, and maybe not remembering right, but I didn't think all that blue in their ship-screen was water! Set me straight, please.

Either way, you're right, the alien design and detail of the Mukay surely beats the design of the ORZ. However, the ORZ are just so bonkers, tentacles flipping about and a bird-beak with gills... just defies anything we've ever SEEN. Coupled with their hilarious and unfathomable speech, AND the fact that somehow, just by discovering them, the Androsynth just... disappeared?! A true mystery that has kept me up many nights. That's what I appreciated most. Hoping and praying Stardock can come up with mysteries like that.

You know, it kinda makes me wish I didn't get involved in the Founder's Program, because we'll KNOW all the aliens and mysteries before we meet them in-game. That's so shitty! But my longing for a GOOD Star Control game after all these years, beats my longing for a Star Control game in general, sooooo...

And GOD! How do you go about creating a new Melnorme?! What are they, even??? They defy all traditional characterization. And the fact they get REAALLLLL upset about their bridge turning purple?! Frick. How can that type of insane outside-human-understanding even be replicated?! 

What you don't like the box artist's representation of a Ur-Quan?

So this is actually something we talk about in the office. You guys are the biggest fans, and you will appreciate the experience more than others. But is it worth it at the expense of the whole game. Ideally we want to give you guys targeted stuff. Things that we do want feedback on, and to use as a sounding board. My view on it stands that it doesn't mean we are going to spoil the game 100% for you by giving you every last piece of art and info. Just the stuff that might be up for debate or elements people may have strong feelings about. So don't fret, we are keeping some very closely guarded secrets that we have no intention of revealing. :) 

LOL... Gulp....................... Not cartoony enough!

OH man... So very many things worry me in this life. Like when I bought Starbound - Early Access! Played 170 hours of the crappy unfinished version so MUCH that now that it's almost out? I don't even want to look at it. 

But like I said, I'd rather the first Star Control be SO AWESOME (because of my input lmao!) that we get many, many sequels down the line and many copycats, that I'll be playing SC like games for the rest of my life. So, you're welcome for my sacrifice!! Hahaha

That is Yogg-saron from WOW. Somebody placed the art on the wrong game cover...

Look at Orz gif:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/aliens/images/f/f4/Orz.gif/revision/latest?cb=20111223212656

Bubbles, gills, suspended in "mid-air" (liquid).

I guess I didn't necessarily assume water as in H2O, maybe some other form of liquid. But now that I see the gif, I probably did think it was water all those years ago... Maybe. Haha

And, what a weird thing to put on the Star Control II cover! Really? They greenlit a depiction of their main badguy that looks LITERALLY nothing like the Urquan, to go on the cover!! Look at those eyes! 

You know, it may be just rumor, but I read somewhere that they bought a half-done painting for a different piece of sci-fi (maybe a book?) and put some ships that vaguely look like SC ships and called it a day. Because honestly, the precursor vessel looks only mildly like the game - and the earth is all beautiful blues and greens! Where's the slave shield? Makes no sense. Did anyone else hear similar? 

You probably weren't imagining it; it's established that Orz gills collect dissolved gases from the "ethanol" solution they float in. I always thought it was kind of a humorous implication from Paul Reiche that perhaps the Orz were so unusual because they were basically drunk all the time.

And I don't really think the box art was "greenlit" after the fact. More like an artist was commissioned to produce something without enough source material to work from. Back in the day, high quality art for stuff like this was sometimes produced before there was an opportunity to approve the final design and by the time it was finished, there was no time to make changes.

Paul stated that something similar happened with SC1's cover art; he basically told Accolade to let the artist do whatever, so what they got was an alien monster hand with three fingers and two opposable thumbs clutching a cluster of stars. He resented the decision after learning that the artist was in fact the legendary painter Boris Vallejo, and Paul realized he missed a great opportunity to have commissioned something much more interesting and relevant to the source material.

I think I recall an interview  where Paul and Fred said the speech of the Orz was so weird in part because the writer tasked with it turned in something incomprehensible, and they just kind of worked with that.

I believe the aliens so far are looking good. Just because we see them in a preview doesn't mean we will now the entire context of their existence within the game. I believe being a founder makes the wait worth it. We get to have influence on the game and beyond a doubt that is cool.

The cover art for SC 1 at the time was great and I think it represented the spirit of the game well. The cover are for SC was great as well. I know it can be argued about the Urquan having teeth is not so good. I would contend it may be a Umgah and not a Urquan. The cover art for SC3, well pretty much looked like a screen shot and not well thought out.

I really think we should let new aliens stand on their own merit. Comparing them to the previous characters put a bit of undo pressure on the devs. For Stardock to take on this project and allow the fans to have input says a lot about the company and the designers. I would say from a technology stand point comparing the aliens would fit as we see how better technology and programing and produce interesting results. I just wont compare them in one is better than the other based on dev interpretation. I will say I love the passion in this group and the devs are going to have a hard time trying to pull a fast one on us.

Quoting SavageMind1, reply 17

I believe the aliens so far are looking good. Just because we see them in a preview doesn't mean we will now the entire context of their existence within the game. I believe being a founder makes the wait worth it. We get to have influence on the game and beyond a doubt that is cool.

The cover art for SC 1 at the time was great and I think it represented the spirit of the game well. The cover are for SC was great as well. I know it can be argued about the Urquan having teeth is not so good. I would contend it may be a Umgah and not a Urquan. The cover art for SC3, well pretty much looked like a screen shot and not well thought out.

I really think we should let new aliens stand on their own merit. Comparing them to the previous characters put a bit of undo pressure on the devs. For Stardock to take on this project and allow the fans to have input says a lot about the company and the designers. I would say from a technology stand point comparing the aliens would fit as we see how better technology and programing and produce interesting results. I just wont compare them in one is better than the other based on dev interpretation. I will say I love the passion in this group and the devs are going to have a hard time trying to pull a fast one on us.

 

Lol... good theory - HOWEVER, there's not one friggin alien in the whole game that has a maw full of razor shaped fangs! LMAO!

And beyond that, how on earth do you "interpret" something that clearly has 6 eyes and a wriggling tentacle-proboscis mouth with 0 teeth... as having 2 eyes and a mouth full of huge, terrifying, jagged incisors? Sounds less like interpretation, and more like reinvention. Which is usually years down the road (Hello, Star Control 3!), rather than on the actual box of the actual game!!

PS- REALLY? How did they go an entire game without using EVEN ONE alien that has a scary, sharp mouth! Impressive! Stardock should try it, just as an exercise in restraint! Show everyone how awesome they are!

I think it's safe to say that our aliens have been inspired by a lot of sci-fi out there, but they are definitely not clones. 

Quoting cuorebrave, reply 18

Quoting SavageMind1,

reply 17

I believe the aliens so far are looking good. Just because we see them in a preview doesn't mean we will now the entire context of their existence within the game. I believe being a founder makes the wait worth it. We get to have influence on the game and beyond a doubt that is cool.

The cover art for SC 1 at the time was great and I think it represented the spirit of the game well. The cover are for SC was great as well. I know it can be argued about the Urquan having teeth is not so good. I would contend it may be a Umgah and not a Urquan. The cover art for SC3, well pretty much looked like a screen shot and not well thought out.

I really think we should let new aliens stand on their own merit. Comparing them to the previous characters put a bit of undo pressure on the devs. For Stardock to take on this project and allow the fans to have input says a lot about the company and the designers. I would say from a technology stand point comparing the aliens would fit as we see how better technology and programing and produce interesting results. I just wont compare them in one is better than the other based on dev interpretation. I will say I love the passion in this group and the devs are going to have a hard time trying to pull a fast one on us.

 

Lol... good theory - HOWEVER, there's not one friggin alien in the whole game that has a maw full of razor shaped fangs! LMAO!

And beyond that, how on earth do you "interpret" something that clearly has 6 eyes and a wriggling tentacle-proboscis mouth with 0 teeth... as having 2 eyes and a mouth full of huge, terrifying, jagged incisors? Sounds less like interpretation, and more like reinvention. Which is usually years down the road (Hello, Star Control 3!), rather than on the actual box of the actual game!!

PS- REALLY? How did they go an entire game without using EVEN ONE alien that has a scary, sharp mouth! Impressive! Stardock should try it, just as an exercise in restraint! Show everyone how awesome they are!

The remark of interpretation was on the characters themselves NOT the cover art. Each incarnation of this game has been interpreted by the game developers. That is why you see such a radical shift between SC2 and SC3, now Stardock is interpreting how they believe the aliens should look to fit in the SC universe. I won't compare each as better or worse because there are mitigating factors for all three. SC was the first basic graphics, just fighting no alien interaction (Toys for Bob), SC2 Alien interaction, improved graphics (Toys for Bob), SC3 Claymation type graphics and speech. (Legend and Accolade). (Yes, SC2 had speech but it was implemented in a remake). Stardock is interpreting what they believe would best represent the SC universe in this incarnation of games series. When I look at their work I don't go back and compare them against somebody else's work. Not saying others are wrong for doing it. I want to evaluate the game based on it's own merit. Too often people get over critical of other people's work because they constantly are comparing it to something else instead of looking at it for what it is.  

I will caveat that I did post a vid on a flight engine I saw that was cool and thought would be great to see, in early stages of the development before there was mass influx of devs coming off other projects. This was because I had no idea how to explain what I saw.

Quoting SavageMind1, reply 20

Quoting cuorebrave,

reply 18

Quoting SavageMind1,

reply 17

I believe the aliens so far are looking good. Just because we see them in a preview doesn't mean we will now the entire context of their existence within the game. I believe being a founder makes the wait worth it. We get to have influence on the game and beyond a doubt that is cool.

The cover art for SC 1 at the time was great and I think it represented the spirit of the game well. The cover are for SC was great as well. I know it can be argued about the Urquan having teeth is not so good. I would contend it may be a Umgah and not a Urquan. The cover art for SC3, well pretty much looked like a screen shot and not well thought out.

I really think we should let new aliens stand on their own merit. Comparing them to the previous characters put a bit of undo pressure on the devs. For Stardock to take on this project and allow the fans to have input says a lot about the company and the designers. I would say from a technology stand point comparing the aliens would fit as we see how better technology and programing and produce interesting results. I just wont compare them in one is better than the other based on dev interpretation. I will say I love the passion in this group and the devs are going to have a hard time trying to pull a fast one on us.

 

Lol... good theory - HOWEVER, there's not one friggin alien in the whole game that has a maw full of razor shaped fangs! LMAO!

And beyond that, how on earth do you "interpret" something that clearly has 6 eyes and a wriggling tentacle-proboscis mouth with 0 teeth... as having 2 eyes and a mouth full of huge, terrifying, jagged incisors? Sounds less like interpretation, and more like reinvention. Which is usually years down the road (Hello, Star Control 3!), rather than on the actual box of the actual game!!

PS- REALLY? How did they go an entire game without using EVEN ONE alien that has a scary, sharp mouth! Impressive! Stardock should try it, just as an exercise in restraint! Show everyone how awesome they are!

 

The remark of interpretation was on the characters themselves NOT the cover art. Each incarnation of this game has been interpreted by the game developers. That is why you see such a radical shift between SC2 and SC3, now Stardock is interpreting how they believe the aliens should look to fit in the SC universe. I won't compare each as better or worse because there are mitigating factors for all three. SC was the first basic graphics, just fighting no alien interaction (Toys for Bob), SC2 Alien interaction, improved graphics (Toys for Bob), SC3 Claymation type graphics and speech. (Legend and Accolade). (Yes, SC2 had speech but it was implemented in a remake). Stardock is interpreting what they believe would best represent the SC universe in this incarnation of games series. When I look at their work I don't go back and compare them against somebody else's work. Not saying others are wrong for doing it. I want to evaluate the game based on it's own merit. Too often people get over critical of other people's work because they constantly are comparing it to something else instead of looking at it for what it is.  

I will caveat that I did post a vid on a flight engine I saw that was cool and thought would be great to see, in early stages of the development before there was mass influx of devs coming off other projects. This was because I had no idea how to explain what I saw.

A lot of the puppets used in SCNot3 were fairly detailed, and I liked some of the originals (That is to say, the ones that were original to the new title). The LK and the Vyro-Ingo stood out to me. My real issues with them is that the existing races had such drastic departures from the original art of SC and SC2 that it was difficult to believe that they were the same races. The Syreen were a complete travesty, imo.

As much as I thought SC3 was a disappointment on a "Galactic" Scale, I will say Accolade and Legend did try. They tried to go another direction with the story and game play. I have played it more then once because the story intrigued me and I liked the idea behind it for the most part. I liked the opportunity to pick up ships from colonies and having to deal with racial politics. The precursor plot twist was fun and made me look at steak with a whole new appreciation. I liked the Xchagger and the spathi in this game namely the voice acting for the Spathi. The game felt rushed to me though. It's hard not to judge succeeding titles when the hope is that the new one will be as good as the last or better.  

Yeah, i would be lying if i said that some of SC3 didn't stuck with me, even though it IS the worst of the series, some aliens, songs and plot... i kinda liked, namely the Eternal Ones, on one side they are a more powerful Ur-quan race and it's doctrines, on the other side, they are the original Mass Effect Reapers, even more than the ur-quan, but i really think that what people didn't like the most on SC3 was the live action and voice acting (yeah gameplay wise it has problems but i really do think that if it used art and voice a la SC2 people would not complain as much)

It's also important to remember that from our perspective, the Ur-Quan and Spathi are still out there, somewhere.  We woudn't want to create aliens similar to the SC2 aliens because we hope, someday, to meet the classic aliens again.

Just as we were arguing back in the planet desighn form (man that was a long time ago) that the planets were too cartoony, I feel that some of the alien designs are not cartoony enough. The mukay is the best of what Ive seen, hitting the stride of both cartoony and realistic perfectly. I realize that this might just be me seeing the concept art and going, "oh no that looks horrid!" But the Tywom looks far to, realistic, and the colors just don't seem to... pop enough for lack of a better word. All of the sc2 races, now that I think of it, used a very bright color scheme. Once again, the Mukay is fine in this regard. Basically, if the final product can match a Mukay level of excellence, I'll be alright with it.