Stardock Review As it relates to Galactic Civilizations

Good Afternoon,

I'm writing this review to point out both some great things I see about Stardock and somethings as a fan player I wish could show some improvement, in all to benefit both sides of the spectrum.  I've been a fan of Stardock, since sometime shortly after the release of Galactic Civilizations II and, seeing the wonderful community and relationships that the company has with their customers.  I hope this continues as Stardock moves forward and hopefully continues to grow and succeed as a company.  Some of this I have said in other posts some of new, I apologize for the duplication.  So here it is...

What I love about Stardock.

Continued communication with their customer base.  

This is not always fun and sometimes can be outright painful, however, Stardock has and continues to try to remain visible with their community.  Should there be a major problem with their products they are normally out there and attempting to get a fix out fairly quickly.  I remember a time shortly after Dark Avatar was released for Galactic Civilizations II, in which one update completely broke the game.  Stardock was on it and got a new update out with in 24 hours to correct that issue, there is nothing like customer service than take care of the issue in a timely manor.  In the same way they continue to remain active on the forums offering suggestions and support on how current issues can be fixed or reported with their current games.  

Not only that, Brad, frequents the forums and holds conversations with his customers.  Now sometimes us as customers and him as CEO, don't see eye to eye and that happens, however, he has the final say.  I personally have huge respect for him for taking the time out of his schedule and staying in touch with the community.

Continued development of great games.  

Several modern day software game developers have stepped back from in depth game development, especially EA (Electronic Arts).  They have gone to quick money, getting the game out and exploit everything we can.  The opposite continues with Stardock.  Instead of the quick cookie cutter game, they put a lot of thought and time into the game to make sure the game is not only fun to play for 30-60 minutes but, continues to remain fun for a long time.  With that being said they have the quick games that are done in an hour or less and, has great replay ability as well as games like Galactic Civilizations that one game may last for 100 hours.  

DLC Content done right.  

As many game developers have gone to DLC to help the bottom line and remain profitable with updates on a game for years to come, Stardock is no exception.  With that being said they do it right.  Should a long time fan look for the next big game from Stardock they have continued to provide the Founders Editions, which allow for all DLC and Expansions (at a higher upfront cost).  This then turns the choice back to the user.  No longer does the customer have to only purchase the game and then if they like it shell out all the extra money for all the extra's unless they choose to go that router.  When a customer purchases the game, they can purchase the "full" game.  Now as a fan $100 price or more can seem expensive but, not when you count that all in.  In all it will turn out as an investment and cost savings based on released price of the game, expansions and, DLC's.  The customer also has the choice though to purchase the game at the lower price and buy the DLC's expansions as they choose but, then they only have themselves to be upset with if they end up spending more in the long run.  Thanks for this, Stardock.

Things I wish were a little different.

The Beta process and internal testing.  

I don't think, Stardock, is doing a bad job here I just wish things would be a little smoother.  Like other larger companies both game developers and general modern companies as a whole bugs and issues can be dealt with later and, this is something that Stardock has seemed to follow in suite.  It seems like they just ask the question, does the game run and, does it appear to work.  Not the questions is it stable, what can be improved or, does it meet extreme features.  Now like I said they are very good at fixing the issues but, after the release, wouldn't it be great if this was handled prior to release and didn't have overlap negative reviews or feedback?  I think so.  How could this be changed?  Some of my suggestions are good some of them many people will disagree with but, here I go.  

Stop relying mainly on internal testing.  This is great for catching larger bugs but, let's face it most internal testing is not done for fun and doesn't have the time to really let the game develop and, explore the depth and length of games like Galactic Civilizations III.  Either bring in temp game testers to stress the game at cost (which may not be great) or, more trusted community members either at limited or no cost.  (Not saying myself just in general).  Give them full access and have them provide feedback on the fun factor, suggestions to improve, as well as bugs.  At the same time continue to give founders early access and listen to feedback.  For one, the founders shelled out extra money for the game and they want to see the game succeed too as they have an investment in the game as well.  Like always some suggestions will just not mesh with the direction in which you want the game to go, however, some suggestions may help the game improve and get better.  

Give the game a longer bug catching phase prior to going gold.  

No, customer likes to play a buggy game that is crashing or not working right.  This will outright break a game for some customers and they won't come back and offer up negative feedback.  This can be prevented.  If these bugs can be fixed prior to going gold than maybe these customers won't be blinded by the small downside of the game and enjoy it and grow to love it.  After all, how many once negative reviews will change them to positive after the fact months after the game has gone gold.  I would bet not many.  I understand that you can't catch all bugs but, crashing should be a minimum and all features should work correctly.

Founders Editions offered longer or after more information released.  

This is nothing against the Elite Founders Editions as I love that Stardock offers this as an option.  What I wish could be done differently is for this to be offered longer and, maybe even at a higher cost.  Yes, I said higher cost and, here is why.  Right now most of the Founders editions have been offered early after the game announcement, which is fine.  However, several of these games had limited information available for the game during this process.  Now I understand, you only want loyal customers who really love the game to get the opportunity to help during this process.  I think it would be great though if they offered this option though after more information was available such as this is what the game is.  Here is a few early screenshots that show a hint of what the game will be.  Now that you know a little more here is the Founders Editions again but, this time maybe 20% more, should you want the game with out worries of DLC's or, Expansions here it is.  After release sorry you missed out.

 

 

Overall, I'm very satisfied with Stardock and it's games and, hope to continue to enjoy their wonderful games for years to come.  Thank you for your time and, have a great day.  

Now back to the game....

 

31,915 views 8 replies
Reply #1 Top

Good critique Seilore

Continued communication with their customer base. 

A+ i am not aware of any company that dose his as well as SD and like you I love the fact the CEO talks and listens to the fan base.

DLC Content done right.

I do not mind charged DLC's at all and recognize they are good for the game, funding further development.   I give them an 8/10 here.  Two things would bump this up (imo): Early release as a beta to founders (even though i am not one) to aid in balancing and bug reporting prior to general public release.  And, a bit more depth / content.  Don't get me wrong, for 4.99 how much can one expect but they feel just a bit light to me.  I mean how hard would it have been to add another mission or 2 to the Snathi?

The Beta process and internal testing. ... Stop relying mainly on internal testing

Agree, As you said  " don't think, Stardock, is doing a bad job here I just wish things would be a little smoother.".  Sometimes if feels like the devs are not really playing the game or they would see the more obvious bugs/shortcomings.

Give the game a longer bug catching phase prior to going gold. 

I said this over and over when gold release was announced. I have no idea of the impact to commitments (internal & external), costs, PR impacts , etc. would have been, but i can guarantee an extra 30 days of bug killing would have curtailed many of the negative reviews. 


Just my thoughts, and despite the still existing issues, still loving the game

 

Reply #2 Top

Very good comments, Seilore.  I agree with most of them but just want to address this one:

Give the game a longer bug catching phase prior to going gold.

While I would very much like to see this too, I get the impression that game development has become just another facet of the overall entertainment industry, and is thus subject to the same market pressures that affect things like movie releases, album releases, etc.  Stardock and other game developers, I think, have to plan out well in advance when their new game is going to be announced and made available in order to capitalize on seasonal purchase patterns and competitive products being released at the same time.  I don't think it's just "don't release the same week as Civ X or Fallout X or Game Y" anymore, it might also now be "don't release the weekend all the buyers are going to be seeing the new Star Wars/Star Trek/Blockbuster X film since they might miss our release".

It used to be so much simpler.

Anyway, while I would have liked to have had a longer test cycle for GC3, I draw great satisfaction from the fact that Stardock supports its products so well and for so long a time, especially compared to some games from other companies that have had to rely on unofficial patches from users to keep them going.

Reply #3 Top

I'm surprised you are so positive on their communication Seilore.  Not too long ago you were quite, and I think rightly, critical of how poor the communication from Stardock had become.

Reply #4 Top

Quoting The, reply 3

I'm surprised you are so positive on their communication Seilore.  Not too long ago you were quite, and I think rightly, critical of how poor the communication from Stardock had become.

Overall, I think they do a good job, I think there is always room for improvement ;)  Plus I still believe they do a much better job than most other game developers even if I was feeling a let down based on the high standard that Stardock had set years ago.

Reply #5 Top


Things I wish were a little different.

The Beta process and internal testing.  

I don't think, Stardock, is doing a bad job here I just wish things would be a little smoother.  Like other larger companies both game developers and general modern companies as a whole bugs and issues can be dealt with later and, this is something that Stardock has seemed to follow in suite.  It seems like they just ask the question, does the game run and, does it appear to work.  Not the questions is it stable, what can be improved or, does it meet extreme features.  Now like I said they are very good at fixing the issues but, after the release, wouldn't it be great if this was handled prior to release and didn't have overlap negative reviews or feedback?  I think so.  How could this be changed?  Some of my suggestions are good some of them many people will disagree with but, here I go.  

Stop relying mainly on internal testing.  This is great for catching larger bugs but, let's face it most internal testing is not done for fun and doesn't have the time to really let the game develop and, explore the depth and length of games like Galactic Civilizations III.  Either bring in temp game testers to stress the game at cost (which may not be great) or, more trusted community members either at limited or no cost.  (Not saying myself just in general).  Give them full access and have them provide feedback on the fun factor, suggestions to improve, as well as bugs.  At the same time continue to give founders early access and listen to feedback.  For one, the founders shelled out extra money for the game and they want to see the game succeed too as they have an investment in the game as well.  Like always some suggestions will just not mesh with the direction in which you want the game to go, however, some suggestions may help the game improve and get better.  

Give the game a longer bug catching phase prior to going gold.  

No, customer likes to play a buggy game that is crashing or not working right.  This will outright break a game for some customers and they won't come back and offer up negative feedback.  This can be prevented.  If these bugs can be fixed prior to going gold than maybe these customers won't be blinded by the small downside of the game and enjoy it and grow to love it.  After all, how many once negative reviews will change them to positive after the fact months after the game has gone gold.  I would bet not many.  I understand that you can't catch all bugs but, crashing should be a minimum and all features should work correctly.

 

Nice post, I wanted to write something about beta testing, pre and post release, never got around to it.

I agree with you about the Founders edition.  I would have joined, but at the time it was available, I just could not commit to any kind of game testing.  I might have bought a founder's spot when I joined the beta shortly before release though.

 

Now, back to beta & bug fixing.

 

I think we have 2 good tools to report issues in this game we love.  The Support Forum and Support ticket.  They are good, but they are not great, and they have disavantage.

 

The forum is great for discussion between members.  But for developpers to catch a bug there, it ain't so great.  We have no easy way to upload a screenshot or a save game, we must rely on dropbox or other 3rd party system.  And developpers just can't spend their time reading every single post to find something.  If one user is a tad rude, a developper may take it personnally too (I might, I mean, I would, it's my baby you're attacking dammit!) and then it degenerates.  Other times, a developper may simply miss something because, well, his job is to code the game (or for Frogboy, to manage the entire company).  And inevitably, resources allocated to a project will diminish gradually after release.  DLCs/expansions help keep the game alive, but you can see a drop in the rate of patching Galciv3 as Ashes of the Singularity went into crunch mode before release.  That means less people with less time to read the forum.

 

The support ticket are very good for issues like crashes and freezes.  You send a save game, a screenshot, a debug log, they replicate the issue, they send it to developpers, they fix it.  However, if you want to discuss specific game mechanics, see if AI behavior is working as intended, work on improving the AI's ability, it doesn't work that well.  First, these people in tech support are trained to help with general issues for all softwares and games.  They may not know enough about the specifics of a game.  I might be reporting a false bug because I notice something odd but it is really working as designed.  So tech support as to take my message, forward it to the developpers for comments and eventually reply so that I can know if it's a bug or not.  That's a waste of time.  And if we require input from other players, like in AI cases, this system will not allow it, it's a one on one communication between Stardock and the client.  It's a traditional tech support rather than a bug tracking system and it requires the tech support people to file the bugs themselves to the internal tracking system.

 

When I used to beta test Europa Universalis II at the Paradox forums, the beta testers (it was a private beta, no crowdfunding at this time, it's like a lifetime ago :) ) had access to the internal tracking system, Bugzilla at the time.  We filed our bugs, interacted directly with the developpers.  Well, mainly only Johan at the time.  As usual with all beta testing, out of 100 testers, less than 30 are left by the time the game is released.  Out of these beta testers, 3-4 were tasked with handling the new "Bug forum".  Bad marketing name, they changed it since then.  But, what we had was a forum platforum where general users could report issues and then we the moderators and the beta testers left could compile a list of issues and report them directly into the bug tracking system to interact directly with the developpers, see if it's working as designed, discuss with other testers to see if it could be improved, etc, etc.


And I think that maybe something like that would be required here, for the Founders.  Even better combined with Seilore's idea that more Founders spot are added later on.  You have people willing to help fund the game and test it all along the development process.  AI issues are killing this game and they are very hard to track for the developpers.  You need to play the really large maps, invest dozens of hours in a single game to see the weakness/problems the AI is experiencing.  That's not something a developper can do or should do.  Brad or the others can't afford to spend half the week just playing the game.  However, the gamers can do that.  But they need a simpler way to interact with the developpers and point the problems with some of the game's mechanics.  UI and AI both suffer of the same problems, they are not adapted for very large empires on very large maps.  It's beyond ok to play on small&medium maps, but as the empire grows, some things do get tedious.  And reporting them on the forum, since there's no way to upload a saved game, we are asked to create a support ticket, if by chance a developper or other Stardock representative read our message.  If we create a support ticket before posting on the forum, we're asked to post on the forum and gather thoughts of other people and developpers passing by...  Imho, not very efficient, and lots of things can be missed, especially as developpers get real busy on another game.

 

Maybe there could be a way with the forum software to allow some people (Founders) to upload files in their specific forum for developpers review and have someone who knows the game monitor this forum and report important issues to SD's internal bug tracking system or speak directly to the devs by pointing them to a specific thread.  I feel that for game enhancements, like UI & AI, such a system would be preferable to the existing support ticket system. The tech support guys are great, but they have their limits when it comes to this.  And if they're busy, they may forget to give us feedback on a specific issue we raised at some point.  And this whole system of sending an e-mail to acknowledge the bug report as been filed, and then the pre-formatted answer "I have forwared your comments to the developppers, I can not at this time..", well, it gets redundant.  Ideally, I'd like to know very quickly if it's a bug, if it's working as designed, if it's something you are thinking of doing later on.  Yes, there is communication from Stardock, but it's not always very clear.  and yes, part of it is our fault for saying vague things like "the AI is totally dumb".  But let us all try to improve it.

Reply #6 Top

I'd add one point to the things they need to do better:

Hire a pro in interface design and work on ways to reduce the number of mouse motions and clicks. Updating starbases, or just finding out which planets have what foucuses, can be a real chore.

Reply #7 Top

Quoting a0152570, reply 1


The Beta process and internal testing. ... Stop relying mainly on internal testing

Agree, As you said  " don't think, Stardock, is doing a bad job here I just wish things would be a little smoother.".  Sometimes if feels like the devs are not really playing the game or they would see the more obvious bugs/shortcomings.

 

reading Brad's posts&AAR, I think it's obvious they mostly play on smallish maps.  And I can't blame them, they need to work sometimes.  How many hours of play does it take on a gigantic map to really see the AI's weaknesses at adapting?  30-40 hours?  That's almost a week's work.  Just to reach a point where it is clear the AI is handicapped.  Then you need to test various scenarios, see what it's doing wrong, test again to see if you can replicate that bad AI behavior up to that point...

That's something left for the crazy testers out there.  But we need a way to make the developpers understand what is wrong, which isn't easy as most of us don't speak 'programmer', so words alone don't do it.  And games don't always play the same.  If I start very near to a hostile race, no matter the size of the galaxy, the chances are high the AI will attack and invade me.  If I start close to a less hostile race, by the time the Krynns, Drengin or Yor want war with me, I'm already in a position to resist their attack and strike back.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting Director, reply 6

I'd add one point to the things they need to do better:

Hire a pro in interface design and work on ways to reduce the number of mouse motions and clicks. Updating starbases, or just finding out which planets have what foucuses, can be a real chore.

starbases are being worked on, this should be in 1.7 according to the road map.