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The Ashes zoom out mockup thread

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The Ashes zoom out mockup thread

from AshesoftheSingularity Forums

During November and December we will be hooking up the final strategic situation map for the game.

The way we plan for this to work is as follows:

When the player zooms out beyond the maximum zoom we have in game, a map of the world will be displayed.  From this map, the player can click to zoom in on any part of the map and get a general situational awareness of it.

For founders, this is the opportunity to make your mark on the game. There have been some good concepts presented by ASDF and such which we are considering as well.

The long-term world of Ashes

  1. We plan for maps to get a lot bigger in the future. A LOT bigger. A year from now, I'd expect the largest map to be 4X bigger than what we have now. A year after that, possibly another 4X.  
  2. The design of this needs to take into account that the player is looking at the surface of a planet, not a battlefield.
Mockup requirements:
  1. Must display regions
  2. Must display the primary focus of the region (metal, radioactives or turinium)
  3. Must display the ownership of the region in some way
  4. Must display at least control groups

What this map won't allow:

  1. You will not be able to give orders from this map (i.e. you will not be controlling armies and giving construction orders from this map)
  2. We will not be giving every unit an icon.

Thanks and have fun!

 

23,615 views 38 replies
Reply #26 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

This may not be a good idea, but I'll put it out there anyway: what if the Logistics tech upgrade also upgraded access to the next tier of units? A little bit like aging. First logistics allows you to build T2s, second logistics Dreadnoughts. Logistics is already a necessary upgrade in the game, so gating the T2 and T3 units in this way would not add extra burden. It also opens up strategy choices: early T2 rush or spam T1 units. Well Quanta Complexes take radioactives to build, which wouldn't slow down T1 production, so some more thought would need to go into this.

Sorry this isn't on the topic of zoom, but I didn't think it was worth starting up a new thread and breaking up the flow of this one.

Reply #27 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

Great back and forth in this thread.  I'm not much of an artist, so I will leave the mock-ups to those who are more graphically talented.  A few quick thoughts/personal wish list items for what I'm going to call the strat map:

On Topic:

  • As cool as a spherical map would look, I think the strat map should be flat.  Spherical maps do not allow you to see what's happening on the side of sphere/planet facing away from you.  Thus, flat is the way to go if the goal is easy situational awareness across massive planetary maps.  That said, I could see rounding the edges of the strat map at the top to hint at the planet being spherical in nature.  
  • Differentiating between land, air, and mixed-arms control groups on the strat map would be very helpful.  This could be accomplished via different control group numbering styles/icons.
  • I would like move orders for units to be displayed on the strat map, even if you cannot issue new orders while zoomed out.  This will help to quickly view overall assault/defense tactics, where units are headed, etc.  
  • I would also like to see an ETA for each control group to its ultimate destination assuming normal movement through each waypoint.  This would help me coordinate flanking and other maneuvers across multiple control groups on large maps.
  • I would like to see static defenses represented on the strat map to identify the overal defensive strengths and weaknesses of my defensive lines.
  • I agree that engineers are very tough to keep tabs on.  I think they should get an icon on the strat map because, unlike units with weapons, engineers are not generally included within the meta-units that I assign control groups to.
  • I would like to see graphical representations of my entire logistics chain at a glance.  This would include different colored dotted lines or something linking each factory to the meta-unit/control group that the factory is pumping out units for, as well as ETA for completing all of the existing build orders for that particular meta-unit/control group, so that I can keep mental notes on when to switch back to that factory and give it new build orders.
  • I think that the empire tree (or whatever replaces it) should remain visible when you zoom out to the strat map view.  It currently does a good job of providing battle awareness IMHO, although I continue to think that the icons are too big in the current build.

Off Topic (but related or mentioned by prior posters):

  • I'm excited about the massive maps you intend to make.  I'm nervous, though, given the tedium of collecting resources and building forward bases and structures on medium to large maps in the current build.  (I think) you are proposing something more massive in scale than even Sins with 5+ stars.  Forcing people to cue up individual buildings, refineries, etc. on maps that big may drive them (or at least me lol) to the brink of insanity.  I talk a little more about this issue in the following thread:    https://forums.ashesofthesingularity.com/472516/page/1/#replies.
  • I agree that tech progression is an issue.  I barely use the lower level units.  I jump to Dreads ASAP because they're so powerful and then build lower level units to round out the overall meta-unit's (as anchored by my Dreads) battle capabilities.

Thanks again for so many chances to provide direct feedback Frogboy and others.

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #28 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

Quoting tatsujb, reply 34

Quoting eviator,

reply 32

This may not be a good idea, but I'll put it out there anyway: what if the Logistics tech upgrade also upgraded access to the next tier of units? A little bit like aging. First logistics allows you to build T2s, second logistics Dreadnoughts. Logistics is already a necessary upgrade in the game, so gating the T2 and T3 units in this way would not add extra burden. It also opens up strategy choices: early T2 rush or spam T1 units. Well Quanta Complexes take radioactives to build, which wouldn't slow down T1 production, so some more thought would need to go into this.

Sorry this isn't on the topic of zoom, but I didn't think it was worth starting up a new thread and breaking up the flow of this one.

I actually like that idea. 

I also have another idea : it would be to use logistics only for tiers and other technology unlock (perhaps there will be more after t3; say orbitals and then enhancements to the already unlocked tiers like extra weapons)

because I find having a unit cap (and subsequently having to conflict with it when you end up being capped) in this game is pretty useless.

it doesn't really fit with the cannon of this game to have unit cap when we're supposed to be clashing armies bigger than ever seen in any other game.

I'm kind of torn on this one.  I'm not sure that accessing new tech levels should just be tied to increased logistical capacity.  I'd be more inclined to tie higher tiered units to upgraded factories like you see in many other games, or even to a more formal tech tree like in Sins.  Assessing and selecting techs to research does not take all that long.

Re: logistics -- I agree with Tatsub to some extent, but I feel like there has to be some kind of upper limit to the number of units you can have in the game for computer/technical reasons, and that's where the logistics caps come in.  If it's not a technical issue (i.e., if an average CPU/GPU combo can handle unlimited units on the field), then logistics seem less relevant/necessary to me.  

I'm just not close enough to the technical requirements necessary for AoS to work on different hardware set-ups.

Reply #29 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

Quoting tatsujb, reply 36

Quoting AoWFever,

reply 35

- I agree with Tatsub to some extent, but I feel like there has to be some kind of upper limit to the number of units you can have in the game for computer/technical reasons

oh that is a given in my idea. I think 1000 units per person is sufficient to never reach unit cap. and if we do start getting frequent games where before there was a victor the unit cap was reached we can always bump it up to something higher

OK, you and I are closer in thinking then.  I feel like Frogboy posted the thinking behind logistics somewhere in the forums back in the day.  I'll see if I can go find it....

EDIT:

This is the best thread on the logistics discussion to date that I could find -- https://forums.ashesofthesingularity.com/469692/page/1/#3579282

Not sure it explains the overall reasoning behind the logistics system, though.

Reply #30 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

I guess I am neutral on this, I could go either way. But unlocking logistics does feel like doing something. A progression/advancement that is important in a game. Especially as you could research other things instead so there is a little bit of choice/compromise which I like in principle too. This may be further magnified if more research options are added. 

I sometimes forget to upgrade it though, so there is that :p

I love choice and compromise. One reason I think there could be some point defense which you can only be built on metal and radioactives. The metal one would be decent and the radioactives one would be very powerful as you are sacrificing an important resource for that point defense. 

Lots of little decisions is what makes a game interesting for me.