I don't think its an easy job to remake maps from any game whatsoever, those maps still have a lot of bugs that need more time and dedication to optimize and some of the maps we the community asked for them.

And who said that remaking some cool old maps that we loved means that the Dev's want to make a sup-com successor?

They are just maps! there is nothing more than that, anyone can make maps they wa you want it, it does not mean anything at all.

When the Map Editor gets better, I will remake some really awesome maps from old games that I love. (C&C. TA)

I knew the "I don't have mouse buttons to bind" post was coming. So use a keyboard, problem solved.

I get it. Many of you want what you had in "the other game" because it works and it is comfortable. Tell me, do you use control groups? Do you use attack-move? Do you set patrols? Do you use any hotkeys? Full honesty time. Most of us use a keyboard when playing RTSs, so hitting space bar to bring up the strategic view is not the end of the world.

That's an illogical inference. I fear you are prone to those. Of course I don't care if there is the option to use either method, nor do I care at this point if they scrap one method in favor of another. The space bar is not bad, is all I'm trying to say. There's an argument that it is better.

There is nothing I said in any of my posts that is inconsistent with my statement. It is not my responsibility to ensure you don't make a bad inference, it's yours. I'm fine if you don't want to take that responsibility, but it's you in the end that looks silly.

Here is my argument, however I admit this argument is thin, perhaps full of holes, so that's why I'm not vehemently defending it, at least until I can try the implementation:

Hitting space bar is one quick action. Go from any zoom level and location, then hit space bar for the full screen map. If you want to go back, just hit space bar again, or maybe you click on the map. Easy. The scroll method takes a little longer, maybe multiple passes of the scroll wheel, though I expect some would ask for a zoom scroll speed setting so it's not a show stopper. Now let's say for some reason you wanted to go to max zoom out without going to the strategic view. Now it's a scroll in one direction to get to the strategic view, then one click back the other direction. Again not a show-stopper, but a little annoying. Zooming back in to a new location is, yet again, one or more passes of the scroll wheel.

To be clear, I'm not saying the scroll method is a bad system. I'm just saying I'm happy to give the space bar method an honest try before I worry about not having the scroll method.

Yeesh this is a lot of talk about a simple UI thing that isn't a big deal and we haven't even been able to experience yet. Tiring.

I think the icons should be an option! Player chooses to turn on or off. Supcom gives an option

I play RTS titles like this to have huge competitive battles, and best implementation of a UI to  achieve that that I have seen so far has been a SupCom style Strategic Zoom. Having icons just plain works. This game should be the next generation of that, so starting there is maybe a good option, but it can be improved upon.

In another thread I suggested a picture-in-picture solution where your units were initially represented by a number bubble (someone else made a cool bubble diagram that displayed a lot of info that would fit nicely into this idea) that when you mouse over turns into a view of the units inside the bubble that you can select and command. It would be a 'fair solution' since units wouldn't be individual icons (they would be a group represented by a big circular icon that itself is a representation of what the group is made up of thru clever use of iconography), that when moused over turns into a picture-in-picture zoomed in view that as long as you keep your mouse inside (and maybe make it rezisable if you grab and drag the edge) you can lasso and micro manage individual units at a see-able zoom level while not having any individual unit ever represented by an icon.

That being said once the battle is over I love to be able to watch the replays of those huge, easily controlled battles zoomed in and without icons to see all the eye candy, so even if when I play it is only icons, the replay is always there to watch from any angle I please, and I would always take ease-of-control of my forces in battle over any other consideration.

I see the update.  we're too lazy to make click to zoom so we'll give you a big map you can skip around instead of a mini-map.  I still see no reason for no click to zoom all the way out. 

Lazy? You know this is alpha, right? Let them work on gameplay fundamentals, then they can tweak the UI to satisfy the QQs.

ill throw in my request for SupCom zoom as well... PITA games where you cannot do this!

Despite a supreme commander zoom possibly not working on very large maps, the current zoom could be expanded a little, it would be nice to see a little more when zoomed out.

I'm sure I have seen maps on supreme commander that are as large, well at least on the modded Forged Alliance Forever. As long as the zoom to strategic overvie is seamless, so one can quickly zoom to another point on the map. This ability on supreme commander was partly what made it so successful in my opinion. It was such a slick interface.

The ability to zoom out to a view with icons, see quickly what was going in at a glance on the battle field, and zoom back in to just where was needed. It would be cool to have both options in game, try them, see who likes which best..?

I think this is the biggest SC FA map in the standard game, so are the maps in Ashes that much bigger?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVhZJz5k4YE

I am playing this now and having a blast.  The map is excruciatingly difficult to navigate.  Attack move is ATTROCIOUS.  Click to zoom the WHOLE MAP fixes all ills with this game.   It's INEXCUSABLE that these maps work this way. This must be fixed.

It is pure retardism of an otherwise pretty decent game.  You devs must DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.  I don't care if you have to recode it from the beginning.

Please remember that this game is effectively in Alpha, so there are many bugs and its not yet the final game. The devs do listen to feedback and changes to the zoom may well happen.

There is no need to be quite so negative!!

If you want to continue to participate in the Founder's Program, you need to adapt your attitude.  This is an alpha test where we look for constructive feedback.  If you want to play a finished game there are many to choose from.

To be honest you are the retarded one expecting a finished and polished game in pre beta. the game will continue to have new bugs..we are here to give feedback..to improve the game...kinda the point of the founders program lol

I am a founder.   And they aren't DOING WHAT IM TELLING THEM TO DO.  Like every other RTS ever made.  CLICK TO ZOOM.  ITS NOT A HARD CONCEPT.

I'm giving feedback.  Navigating the map is a horror show.  Trying to issue move orders in the heat of battle is another horror show.  Feedback given.  I paid my money, I'm going to say what I want.  I don't have time to pull up a stragegic map when I'm trying to control engineers and battlegroups in real time.

It's stupid to have a map to navigate. You guys gotta stop kissing ass and demand they improve the game.

OMG you gotta be kidding me.  I'll patriciate as I see fit or you give me my full money back and ban me from this disaster that is AotS.  Double post. I don't care.

Firstly, we are not "kissing ass" as you say, we understand the development process of a game, we know the devs and community are working hard to make this game a reality. As soon as its allowed I'll be streaming the game on twitch to promote it, partly because I have a vested interest, £65, in it being released. Plus I like the game...its the RTS we've been waiting for since Supreme commander. However, the more investors we have, the money there is for more development.

Yes, you are a founder too, but there is a right and wrong way to ask for changes. You've backed a game and can play it before release, like an investor in a project. If the game was making no progress and was months or years past its release date you my have justification to vent your frustration. But it isn't behind schedule and has not missed its release date.

So please, make your points regarding the map and zooming, suggest what you'l like, in a constructive and none aggressive manner.

Personally, I hope that the zoom is made more like supreme commander, if that is possible, however map navigation is quite manageable at present and I love the unit display, which flashes when a unit is under fire, allowing me to focus on that. 

Its quite possible the devs will come up with something quite unique, only time will tell.

However, making posts such as this will only antagonize devs and founders alike, you need to watch you step.

disregard* whatever.

I'll go play Sims or something.

lol that's your problem, you demand and say i'm a founder blah blah outrage...just because you say jump..they wont jump...we have seen the devs taking in our ideas.. and also consider them ..but they have the final say, the zoom does need work..they have mentioned something similar to sins.. which i don't mind i'm a sins whore..anyways, so i will wait

Next post like this and you'll be shown the door.  

Lol at minidump-hellboy.
This guy has no idea about how to alpha/beta test a game at all, I think he/she never did.
Guys please give him a break and let him go play Sims and to cool down a bit.

minidump-hellboy i do recommend you to stop playing AOTS for now till Final release or you will go crazy.

So if its cool with everyone can we get back to talking about the map? 

As I said before I'm not artist so a mockup may be a little outside of my abilities but if you are interested in just some ideas for information to be displayed ill list them below. 

A count of total sites on the map with an amount each side control 

Ex 12/40 10/40

A heatmap of sorts not sure how it would loom but something that will make it easy to view a higher concentration of units in an area. 

Someone else mentioned a breaking news sort of update so if there is a new site captured while viewing the map maybe it gets highlighted or it illuminates and that area gets a little larger so we can tell which one was captured. Possibly do the same if a control group gets engaged by a new force while viewing. 

Edit: Oops I thought this was the mockup thread ignore me 

What does "click to zoom" even mean. It's ambiguous to me.

So, I haven't bought the game (yet), but I'd like to chime in on the concept of zoomed out strategic type view. (long time SC: FA player)

Strategic view is to oversee the entire area where _multiple_ battles may be taking place. Basically...get an overview of the whole war. Which is a feature of this game. In wars, you need a quick way to get a basic overview and concept of what is going on in each battle, and ideally (for video games) be able to quickly zoom into that area to direct your units. I understand the Dev's don't want to simply copy SupCom, and want to show the power and beauty of the game engine by always rendering the full unit, but the further you zoom out, the less relevant that becomes.

Using icons has a long history in battle/war management, all the way back from sand tables and paper maps and up to grease pencils on a board. For example, modern day CAOC (combined air operations center), here's an UNCLASS view of the big wall screens, which can give an good overview of the area of responsibility. See all those symbols?

Granted, we have the luxury of full knowledge of visible units, how to render them, etc, etc, but at a very large scale icons work because they let us take in a lot of information at a quick glance and tells us the most important bits that we need to know. Once you get below this level...yea, I don't mind the Dev's doing their thing, because it's their game. Although it's great that they take and incorporate feedback from us, they still have their vision of how it should work.

Also...as with some of the others, I have no clue what "click to zoom" means. The way it was used it sounded like click to zoom out which doesn't make any sense to me. If you're talking about click from strategic view to zoom into an area/battle on the map, that does make sense.

EDIT: Here's a bunch of modern day military symbology. Doesn't need to be nearly this complicated, but basic differentiation between "artillery vs tank vs fighter vs bomber" is very useful http://axisandallies.wikia.com/wiki/Military_Symbols