Ai Omnicience

I just began my first immense map game, and now some time into it wherever I go the various relics are all worked by AI starbases, even when they are very far away from their territory. Somewhere I read the AI has no fog of war and sees all from the start, so I assume it sends out constructors to all those relics from the start.

That is very dissatisfying. Stardock, is there no possibility to take that ability away from the AI? Why should they ever build scouts if they are omnicient?

7,502 views 10 replies
Reply #1 Top

The AI gets this on difficulty levels higher than Normal (to make it more difficult!).

The devs are looking into taking away the ability on some higher levels, but those higher levels need to be more competitive first.

 

Reply #2 Top

brad has mentioned the ai piercing the fow for resources (it seems to know where planets it wants to send a freighter to are as well).  Right now, the ai is pretty bad at scouting the map (pretty much just sends out scout ships set to explore).  I'd immagine that the ai would pretty much fail entirely at getting resource nodes until scouting is improved if it couldn't pierce the fowveil

Reply #3 Top

Is the scouting motion for non FOW ai an algorithm we can improve? It seems in my games when I set ships to 'explore' it does a back and forth strip that removes the FOW. 

 

This is nothing like I do which is to go to the nearest stars and reveal them, as I am NOT looking for resources but instead I am looking for Hab planets. Couldn't you script in a better search to go to stars?

Reply #4 Top

Quoting Larsenex, reply 3

Is the scouting motion for non FOW ai an algorithm we can improve? It seems in my games when I set ships to 'explore' it does a back and forth strip that removes the FOW. 

 

This is nothing like I do which is to go to the nearest stars and reveal them, as I am NOT looking for resources but instead I am looking for Hab planets. Couldn't you script in a better search to go to stars?

 

no, It is extremely unlikely that is something we can do through xml (probably just no it's so unlikely).  a scout stars option alongside explore/guard/etc would massively improve the ai's early game abilities while also cutting down some tedious micromanagement for players as well

Reply #5 Top

All the influence we have over the AI's ship control is a few settings in GalCiv3AIdefs. These are used as constants by the actual subroutines. We can fix a few things with these - the AI not attacking, for example - but anything scout related appears to be in the hardcode.

 

That said, editing the ship blueprint defs to give the AI more sensors on scouts and colony ships (by junking loads of life support) helps a lot.

Reply #6 Top

Are there any plans to enhance modding capabilities by not only giving us some XML files to modify but to expose an interface to us that allows us to call functions  and write scripts like e. g. in Space Empires V? Then a very simple scouting script could look like that (pseudo code):

For each scout without current target {

   Determine nearest unexplored star

   Make sure no other scout goes there

   Send scout

}

 

Reply #7 Top

My custom scouts like to group together instead of one ship one area.

Reply #8 Top

If the AI gets no FOW at higher then normal difficulty, wouldn't a possible fix to simple have some kind of outer limit based on its average ship range, that then perhaps is further reduced by a 30%-40% (testing needed) for the purpose of claiming it. That way even if it sees a relic in the middle of no where due to being omniscient the game will tell the AI, dont get that until it falls within the specified limited range. Note im not saying to physically reduce there ships range, they are allowed to move fully within there range, but just use that figure in order to determine a almost fake distance of what it has 'explored' or seen.

That way with each subsequent ship range upgrade, colonized planet or star base deployment. The AI would more accurately simulate AI scouting at a level and speed the player would be capable of.


Likewise it should also give lesser priority to things deep within other AI/player territories, and also anywhere there is a large area of empty space. As in most cases the AI shouldn't be willing to travel there early on. That is unless it feels that its equal or more powerful then the controllers race. While giving more priority if its near a star, seeing as that's the correct scout behavior if the Ai scouts were actually good.


More so if an AI ship comes within one full move/turn or 'visual' range of a relic or resource it can then flag that item as claimable, superseding the above limiter.

Then hopefully we wont see as often the AI sniping a relic or resource deep in your territory, or clear across the map. This would also help with the AI spreading itself to thin in some places by keeping  more of its star bases closer to itself meaning it has a better chance of defending them.


I remember Brad saying something about the reason the AI can see everything is because if they had true FOW like the player they would need to save a value for every hex for every AI telling it if its seen a hex or not. Times that by a 100 Ai map and that's a huge number! But seeing as 99% of the map is empty its kinda over kill to save every hex value. As the limiter/figure based on range idea would in affect reduce the need for saving every value of every hex in its entirety. Although I have no idea if it actually calculating that each turn would be a big strain, I cant imagine it to be seeing as ship ranged, when the AI moves, is already being calculated per turn.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting 00zim00, reply 8

I remember Brad saying something about the reason the AI can see everything is because if they had true FOW like the player they would need to save a value for every hex for every AI telling it if its seen a hex or not. Times that by a 100 Ai map and that's a huge number! But seeing as 99% of the map is empty its kinda over kill to save every hex value. As the limiter/figure based on range idea would in affect reduce the need for saving every value of every hex in its entirety. Although I have no idea if it actually calculating that each turn would be a big strain, I cant imagine it to be seeing as ship ranged, when the AI moves, is already being calculated per turn.

 

But then doesn't this happen on normal and below where the AI doesn't have FOW?  Seems a little inconsistent here.  If it can be done on normal then why not on genius level?

 

For me the best solution would be to give the AI greater sensor ranges for higher difficulties.  This way even scout search patterns wouldn't matter much if they can see out 25 hexes.

Reply #10 Top

Quoting jju57, reply 9

But then doesn't this happen on normal and below where the AI doesn't have FOW? Seems a little inconsistent here. If it can be done on normal then why not on genius level?

Unless its been changed recently, im pretty sure the AI can always see Relics and resources no matter what for the reasons above. Which is why they tend to always get them within your territory and from far away distance locations without actually scouting them. Im not sure how it handles planets, i hope that isnt the case but i have a feeling they can also see them. At least on the higher then normal difficulties. I imagine the issue is not as noticeable on lower difficulties because they will be researching at a lower rate and have negative bonuses over all which in turn limits there ability to get to the relics and resources without the appropriate tech such as ship range.

 

I believe that they have attempted to curb the problem by limiting the priorities of building constructors to remove the aggressive constructor spam that use to happen more frequently in earlier versions. Although the main 'issue' of them always being able to see them is still present.