Problems with terraforming

from GalCiv3 Forums

It's about ultra terraformers. They can terraform the same hexes as the two first terraformers you unlock in the game. We will call these hexes as "tier 1 hexes" here for the sake of simplicity, as there are other, lower quality hexes, that require better terraformers. But that's not the problem; the problem is that by the time I unlock them, I might have used other advanced terraformers to terraform those tier 1 hexes. That's because most people will simply use any terraformer to unlock any hex, regardless of its quality. This way, I could accidentaly use, say, a biosphere (which can terraform anything) or any other advanced terraformers on a tier 1 hex, and therefore, in late game, the ultra terraformer would be useless because there would be no hexes left that it can terraform.

To bypass this, I have been avoiding using any terraformer until I unlock the ultra terraformers. This way, I will use them first, and only apply the more advanced terraformers to the lower quality hexes that can only be terraformed by such. But it simply seems awkward for me to wait so long to use them.

So how do we fix this? It is simple: show us the "quality" of each hex that can be terraformed. This way, we will only use the advanced terraformers on the hexes that can only be terraformed by them, and save the tier 1 hexes for the ultra terraformers. Simple as that.

And sorry for the extreme repetitiveness of the words terraformer, I simply couldn't find a way to get around it.

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Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Firstly, the first two terraform improvements (I forget their names) only terraform the same exact tiles that the Ultra Terraformer will, but they are much cheaper.  You could just build those two until you get the Ultra.

 

OR ... more strategically ...

 

Since those two only terraform the exact same tiles as the UT, you can use them to gauge which tiles the UT can terraform versus not, and from that figure out non-UT-able tiles the other terraforming improvements can be applied to without wasting them on tiles the UT will eventually be able to terraform.

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Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I as well rarely terraform until the higher levels have been researched.  I agree, missing tooltips on terraforming.  The tooltips should match a terraforming level in the tech description. But, you need to know this BEFORE you research it, and we have no tooltips on techs in the techtree giving full descriptions "before" you research. Until that day comes, you just have to rely on previous game experience.

 

More tooltips coming in 1.1, we can only hope it covers this.

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I've noticed that aside from biospheres which can terraform pretty much any tile, the UTs can only terraform the greatest number of tiles (as they are reusable).  HOWEVER, I have noticed that there are some tles the UTs _can't_ improve, but earlier terraformers can.  What I have started to do is wait until I've developed ALL of the terraforming techs.  Then I start with the UTs and place them everywhere they can be placed.  Then I check to see if tech #1 (Soil Enrichment?) can improve a tile that the UTs couldn't.  Seeing none, I check around likely tiles and replace the UT with tech #1.  Then repeat for tech #2, and so.  The last one I place is Biospheres because it is the only one that can improve a tile NONE of the other techs can improve.

On average, I maximize the number of improved tiles by 3 or 4 per planet this way, rather than placing the early techs first and doing the UTs last.  As long as it isn't an ice planet, water world, or lava field, that's a LOT of tile improvements per planet.

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Chibiabos, reply 1

Firstly, the first two terraform improvements (I forget their names) only terraform the same exact tiles that the Ultra Terraformer will, but they are much cheaper.  You could just build those two until you get the Ultra.

 

OR ... more strategically ...

 

Since those two only terraform the exact same tiles as the UT, you can use them to gauge which tiles the UT can terraform versus not, and from that figure out non-UT-able tiles the other terraforming improvements can be applied to without wasting them on tiles the UT will eventually be able to terraform.

 

Yep, what he said.  He has the maximum efficiency of terraforming down perfect.  Same method I use.

 

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Chibiabos, reply 1

Since those two only terraform the exact same tiles as the UT, you can use them to gauge which tiles the UT can terraform versus not, and from that figure out non-UT-able tiles the other terraforming improvements can be applied to without wasting them on tiles the UT will eventually be able to terraform.

Which is a pain in the ass. The interface should make it easier to distinguish between the different qualities of tile, even if it's only "yellow means lesser terraforming devices can alter these tiles while red means only this level or better terraforming devices can alter these tiles," though better would be color-coding by terraforming level required.

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Which has all been suggested since early beta if not earlier 

Reply #7 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

It really doesn't help that the descriptions are very unhelpful.  Different techs will describe the 'quality' of tiles they can improve differently even when they are the exact same tiles.

Reply #8 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

i guess color coding would help. i think they had color coding in GC2. 

doesn't make a huge difference to me anyway. the way i see it, NOT using a terraforming option mid game just so you can have an extra tile you'd otherwise lose in the late game isn't worth the tradeoff. i use the techs as i unlock them to create/improve adjacency hubs. delaying them until you get ultra terraformer or picking up other tiles that aren't adjacent to to already developed stuff seems like a bad idea. the short term benefit is far more valuable to me than some extra tiles i might get in the final age. chances are that the game ends before i even get the ultra terraformer, or i've pretty much won anyway and the extra tiles make no difference at all.

Reply #9 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

"Planetary Soil Upgrade" and "Soil Engineering" are the two improvements that have identical tiles they can improve to the Ultra-Terraformer.  You can build one to free a tile, keep the other one around so you can compare subsequent terraforming improvements so you won't waste one that can improve un-UT-able tiles on a UT-able tile until you get the actual UT.

 

Once you get the UT, I suggest building PSU and SE first and the terraforming improvements that can work on non-UT-able squares, since they are much cheaper, strategically for maximum industrial output, build your starting factories and let them progress all the way to their maximum upgrade tech, and only after those factories have all upgraded do the UT since the UT is so expensive to build.  Trying to queue up the UT on a colony you just started will take several dozen turns per UT ... even if you put factories in the queue ahead of it, that'll only help a little -- remember the upgrade for those factories will get added to the end of the queue, so the factory upgrades won't build until after the UT if you stick UT improvements in your queue.  So even when I get the UT tech, I won't put it in the queue of new colonies until after I've built every factory I can and they've upgraded as much as they can.

 

I also intentionally stop adding any of the infinite projects (build research/wealth/influence/etc.) so that I'll get prompted of an empty planetary manufacturing queue when the factory upgrades are done.

Reply #10 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Captain, reply 3

I've noticed that aside from biospheres which can terraform pretty much any tile, the UTs can only terraform the greatest number of tiles (as they are reusable).  HOWEVER, I have noticed that there are some tles the UTs _can't_ improve, but earlier terraformers can.  What I have started to do is wait until I've developed ALL of the terraforming techs.  Then I start with the UTs and place them everywhere they can be placed.  Then I check to see if tech #1 (Soil Enrichment?) can improve a tile that the UTs couldn't.  Seeing none, I check around likely tiles and replace the UT with tech #1.  Then repeat for tech #2, and so.  The last one I place is Biospheres because it is the only one that can improve a tile NONE of the other techs can improve.

On average, I maximize the number of improved tiles by 3 or 4 per planet this way, rather than placing the early techs first and doing the UTs last.  As long as it isn't an ice planet, water world, or lava field, that's a LOT of tile improvements per planet.

That's exactly what I do too. My description on the OP was rather unclear, I'll admit it.

As some have said, there should be colours to each terraformable hex to show which terraformer you should use on them.

Reply #11 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Starus, reply 10

That's exactly what I do too. My description on the OP was rather unclear, I'll admit it.


As some have said, there should be colours to each terraformable hex to show which terraformer you should use on them.

 

Yes, exactly (on the second part).  But in the meantime, consider my earlier comment -- "Planetary Soil Upgrade" and "Soil Engineering" upgrade the exact same tiles as the UT.  They are the first terraform improvements you get ... so you can build one where its most strategically advantageous (to optimally improve adjacency, preferably for manufacturing) and leave the other as a guide for subsequent terraform improvement techs so you can see which can improve tiles the UT won't be able to (again since PSU and SE improve the exact same tiles as the UT, what they can improve, the UT can -- so if you alternate between selecting one of those and another terraform improvement, you can see which tiles the better terraform tech can improve that the UT won't).

Reply #12 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Bottom line, you can use the first 2 tf techs without waste. After that you risk wasting some of the ultra tiles.

Reply #13 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Easiest change would be to color coded the terraforming hexes. Yellow = Tier 1, Blue = Tier 2, Red = Tier 3, something of that nature.

Reply #14 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Azunai_, reply 8

i guess color coding would help. i think they had color coding in GC2. 

doesn't make a huge difference to me anyway. the way i see it, NOT using a terraforming option mid game just so you can have an extra tile you'd otherwise lose in the late game isn't worth the tradeoff. i use the techs as i unlock them to create/improve adjacency hubs. delaying them until you get ultra terraformer or picking up other tiles that aren't adjacent to to already developed stuff seems like a bad idea. the short term benefit is far more valuable to me than some extra tiles i might get in the final age. chances are that the game ends before i even get the ultra terraformer, or i've pretty much won anyway and the extra tiles make no difference at all.

 

Yeah stuff like delaying your terraforming until you can fully utilize UT are strategies used for the "long term" games.  If you are playing on smaller maps with games that end in like less than 300 turns it probably doesn't matter much.  Optimizing your terraforming is more for like the types of games I play, insane sized maps where at 300 turns you are really just getting into the thick of it.