[Patch Suggestion] Colony Settings Lock, Multi-management and Shipyard Pane, Large Empire Penalty

You can always get Patriotic. Even in real life... USA or Russia are large empire and they got problems with ppl and aproval... more land = more trouble.

i. I completely agree. A lot can be done to make large empires easier to manage.

ii. Right now you could use the the lists on the bottom right of the screen (Colonies, Shipyards+starbases, ships) to easily find your shipyards. We do need a much better way to manage many shipyards. but it's not too bad right now.

iii. I really can't see how you'd do that. Any specific ideas? remember that we all have different play styles etc...

iv. In my experience this works fine, if you have a huge empire, be sure to choose the right techs to compensate or (like niebieski said) consider taking a Patriotic race.

v. We definitely need that!

well I think that the maps need to be decided between small and large. People whodont like large empires probably play the biggest maps. 8 players on the biggest with small empires don't make sense. If you aren't playing the bigger maps then there is a large empire penalty. This penalty then could be used to affect Ai play style. On bigger maps you would have to build bigger empires. On the smaller maps you couldn't build big empires. By using the penalty then the Ai could play better on both kind of maps. I don't. Understand there is a colony list on the right side of screen there is a colony list in the govern screen. The only thong missing which I would like back is being able to list planets by class...

Well, I disagree with that. I think that regardless of which size map you choose to play, you should be able to play your way. If you want a huge empire on small maps, why not? and if you want a tiny republic on a huge galaxy, why not? Nobody is stopping you, and the game mechanics should not stop you from doing that. Whether it makes sense or not is a very subjective judgment, but if a player wants to do something, he should be allowed to do so. I think one reason this game is amazing is due to the flexibility that lets players win/play any style they want. That's the aspect I love the most in this game.

I agree that AI should adapt to the size of the map and play their strategies accordingly, but that means AI should be improved, and not by implementing a game mechanics that forbids certain playstyles. Isnt it better to have the [Large Empire penalty] adjusted depending on map size? I think that's more reasonable in my opinion - let players do whatever they want with the size of the galaxy, and the system will adjust accordingly.

What I meant by point no. ii, about shipyard, is that,  I know there's a list of colony in govern and also on the right side panel. But in my opinion is very difficult to use. FIrst you have to SEARCH visually which colonies have shipyards, then you have to double click ONE by one each colony with shipyard, then assign to build something.

Also, searching these shipyards are not easy because in the colony pane, it has no icon for having a shipyard or not. All colonies have a manufacturing bar on the top, then shipyard construction bar right below. You can't easily tell which colonies have a shipyard or not, unless you see a spacecraft manufacturing bar (you already ordered something to be built)

I was suggesting to have a dedicated shipyard pane, where it will list ONLY THE SHIPYARDS, let you sort alphabetically by name or by production capacity, and you can CTRL+click multiple shipyards (or a tickbox) and order them to build a same ship by either:

• add to their current queue
• place at the top of their queue

If you play a massive galaxy where you have 20+ shipyards, you will understand my pain. It's really a hard work at the moment to manage a lot of shipyards.

Also I agree with you that we need to be able to sort the colonies and ships by name, class, ship type.

So if I get Patriotic trait, will that allow me to balance my 'Large Empire Penalty -55 ' to 0 and  build maybe one or two Zero-G Arena and make my Class 6 colony happy with 100% approval?

If yes, then great, I will go try that (I haven't tried patriotic yet)

If not, then I still have a problem where class 8 colonies and below will suffer from low approval. My concept for the game session i am playing now is, a 'huge huge empire, based on approval and influence which will culturally flip everyone by expanding its influence over all opponent zone of control'. And I don't see how I can achieve this when I see a -55 approval rate to start on every colony. I am probably wrong with numbers but if I assume one Zero-G arena gives you +8 approval rate, that's at least 7x Zero-G Arena just to start the approval from zero. So all Class 8 planets or below are basically doomed (forget approval rate, just build something else)

Oh yeah! and I forgot to mention a bug here:

There's a Benevolent Ideology skill where gives you 50% more approval on every colony you own. If you get this, your colonies' approval details gets an item called 'Noble +50%'.

Problem is, if you have negative approval, like me, -55 for large empire,  this skill also amplifies negative approval. I have no idea how it works but currently I have -98 Approval rate as a final number. I will try to post a picture later for you all to see. So I need to build 13x Zero-G arena if I want to get back to 0 approval. 

Yes, Patriotic just completely removes the LEP. You could also get the Malevolent trait that gives you +1 morale for each planet you invade. The LEP is -.2 per planet, so with the trait each planet you invade is net +.8 morale to every planet in your empire. That means each invaded planet can support 4 others in terms of the penalty, and invading planets equal to 25% of your current empire shouldn't be that difficult.

There are technologies that give percentage bonuses that multiply what your stadium supplies.  There are approval Relics that supply multipliers.  There are ideologies that provide bonuses or buildings that affect approval. 

If you are going for that big an empire, you are going to need all of those.  If I get a bunch of those then I find rush buying a single entertainment center on a new colony makes a big difference for that new colony.

Moved to future ideas forum.

I have researched all of those approval technologies, including Precursor Relic research tree. I also got nearly all of the Approval relics found on that map, about 10 of them, and they are all being mined to full. Also I have several ideologies that gives me percentage multiplier boost.

And I'm sorry but no, rush buying a single entertainment center does not help and does not make a big difference at all. Not when you have nearly 250+ colonies and you START a new colony with -55 approval points(only from LEP alone). Add all of those percentage multiplier bonuses, still your colonies with anything less than Class 10, are never going to reach a decent approval rate. And like I mentioned earlier, with all the bonuses and multipliers (and bugged multipliers), I get final -95 approval points when I start a new colony (I need to check but its somewhere around -80~ -98 pts depending on colony, it varies).

So far the only solution is the Patriotic trait which removes the LEP completely.

Some users say the LEP is fair, and I can see their point is valid. But then I also see the side where I fundamentally wonder, "Why having a large empire something bad? Why do we have to be punished by having a large empire? Why having a large empire automatically means your citizen are going to be unhappy?"

In my opinion, the assumption that 'large empire = bad = citizens will dislike it' is flawed.
Citizens don't necessarily have to be patriotic to approve a large empire. Even if you're not patriotic, you may like the idea that the empire you live in is big (for your own trade, your own profit, your own shady business, whatever the reason).

I don't think players should be 'forced' to pick patriotic skill if they want to have a large empire, because, your empire is most likely going to become very large at the later game.

Like someone else in the forum mentioned, Large Empire Penalty and patriotic skill was there in place to prevent a problem of accelerated, rushed expansionism. And justly, these two system does not prevent it. Even with zero approval on every colony, you can expand rapidly, colonize as much as you can, and pump out the manufacturing/research/wealth benefits. Therefore, LEP does not hinder or stop the rushed expansionist strategy. If that's not the objective of LEP, then I don't really know what is it there for. Currently the LEP is a bit too excessive in my opinion, and has a harmful effect of preventing a player with large empire to play 'peace/diplomacy/trade/approval' strategy.

Looks like Stardock is assuming that "If you have large empire = you're warlike, you invade a lot, and you're evil empire", which is not always the case. I'm going for a 'large influence/culture-based empire', and this is not entirely possible with LEP (unless i restart game with Patriotic).

TBH, I really don't see the problem.

I have a +83 approval in a colony with no entertainment center (this number is common in my current empire)

• Colony Capital +3
• Content(+2) +2
• Easy to please +4
• Supportive population +4
• Harmony crystals +6
• Virtual world +1

total=+20

• populist party +20%
• approval relic(5) +250%
• virtual world +25%
• Flag waving +20%

total=+315%

20*315%=63 (Any help why my calculation is wrong?)

So I don't know why I get a +83 but still, +63 for a new colony should be enough even without having the "Patriotic" trait.

Notice that there is no entertainment center, or starbase upgrades that will get this even higher. Having a stadium (+6) and orbital resort (+2) will give: (20+6+2)*315%=+88.2

So, say you have 250 colonies, that will give you 250*-0.2=-50 approval for any new colony.

you should still be able to have a population of 30+ before having to build a second stadium.

I like when the AI ask me for a tech and they say this is fair. I say no, then I offer them the same thing only letting them decide how much in credits they will pay. Usually it is about 8-10X their original idea. LOLOLOLOL Sure no problem AI. You came to me wanted that for 75 credits, how about 468 credits when I bring it up, you agree? Splendid. LOL.

Because when you have a bonus adding 315% to the base value, your multiplier is 1 + 315%/100%, i.e. 4.15. You multiplied by 3.15, which corresponds to a final value of 315% of the base value, i.e. (base value) + 215%, rather than (base value) + 315%.

Thank you!