Sansloi37

Likely Bug re: Carriers

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Likely Bug re: Carriers

from GalCiv3 Forums

The basic (Assault) carrier fighters are currently size "small", whereas the interceptor and guardian upgrades are "tiny". As pointed out in the modding section by joeball123, the ShipClassDefs.XML seem to indicate the assault fighters should be tiny, yet ShipBlueprintDefs.XML defines them as small.

https://forums.galciv3.com/465767/page/1

If this is just a mistake, and they are supposed to be tiny, this could help explain some of the "carrier fighters are OP" issues - a bunch of small fighters are much tougher than tiny ones.

39,871 views 30 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I took a closer look at carrier module balance a little while ago, and they are pretty messed up. https://forums.galciv3.com/466693/page/1/#3558719 

Frankly, I agree with this:

 

Quoting Icemaniaa, reply 23

The problem is balance and variety in strategy.

Carriers become the one and only strategy, everything else is strictly inferior.  I might as well as scrap every other military ship design or research approach at that point in the game.

 

By any measure, assault fighters are vastly more powerful for their manufacturing, support, and mass costs than anything else in the game, because they take advantage of any other improvements you have. 

 

Do you want four DoomRays for 800 manufacturing cost, or two fighters which both field two DoomRays and have a bunch of hitpoints and defenses besides for 68 manufacturing cost?

Reply #27 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting TurielD, reply 26

By any measure, assault fighters are vastly more powerful for their manufacturing, support, and mass costs than anything else in the game, because they take advantage of any other improvements you have. 

Do you want four DoomRays for 800 manufacturing cost, or two fighters which both field two DoomRays and have a bunch of hitpoints and defenses besides for 68 manufacturing cost?

Yep, back when I first started this thread 3 weeks ago, I thought it was basically a typo. Now I know that it is intended, but I still maintain it is not well thought out. There are so many things one can do to alter how strong fighters are, both nerfs and buffs, but I have yet to be convinced that keeping Assault fighters "small" and just reducing them from 3 to 2 is the way to go.

Now I'm still messing around and play-testing my modifications (focusing more on what is fun and fair than strict balance), but these are some of adjustments I've made:

  • All carrier fighters are tiny; I have 4 types, keeping the Assaults multipurpose and added a missile armed bomber.
  • All Tiny hulls have reduced weapons range, but increased weapon accuracy; they also all get some evasion (jamming) by default. Considered reducing their weapon damage as well, but decided to limit their load-out instead.
  • All carrier drones are limited to, at most: 2 weapons, 1 defense, 1 thruster (assaults may have one of each weapon). Doesn't matter how much mass-reduction/capacity increases you get; an endgame interceptor may carry doom-rays, but only ever two of them at most.
  • High Capacity module is one-per-ship, increases capacity of all other modules.
  • Increased cost/maintenance/mass of all base modules.

 

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Reply #28 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Sansloi37, reply 27


Quoting TurielD,
reply 26

By any measure, assault fighters are vastly more powerful for their manufacturing, support, and mass costs than anything else in the game, because they take advantage of any other improvements you have. 

Do you want four DoomRays for 800 manufacturing cost, or two fighters which both field two DoomRays and have a bunch of hitpoints and defenses besides for 68 manufacturing cost?



Yep, back when I first started this thread 3 weeks ago, I thought it was basically a typo. Now I know that it is intended, but I still maintain it is not well thought out. There are so many things one can do to alter how strong fighters are, both nerfs and buffs, but I have yet to be convinced that keeping Assault fighters "small" and just reducing them from 3 to 2 is the way to go.

Now I'm still messing around and play-testing my modifications (focusing more on what is fun and fair than strict balance), but these are some of adjustments I've made:

 

    • All carrier fighters are tiny; I have 4 types, keeping the Assaults multipurpose and added a missile armed bomber.

 

    • All Tiny hulls have reduced weapons range, but increased weapon accuracy; they also all get some evasion (jamming) by default. Considered reducing their weapon damage as well, but decided to limit their load-out instead.

 

    • All carrier drones are limited to, at most: 2 weapons, 1 defense, 1 thruster (assaults may have one of each weapon). Doesn't matter how much mass-reduction/capacity increases you get; an endgame interceptor may carry doom-rays, but only ever two of them at most.

 

    • High Capacity module is one-per-ship, increases capacity of all other modules.

 

    • Increased cost/maintenance/mass of all base modules.

 


 

I'd love to see a well done Mod for this while we wait for Stardock to close what is an obvious OTT exploit.

Reply #29 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Icemaniaa, reply 28

I'd love to see a well done Mod for this while we wait for Stardock to close what is an obvious OTT exploit.

 

I've been putting this off for a while but yeah, looks like it's going to have to be us for the time being.

Reply #30 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Yea i think to carrers are op atm.  What is even imho worse is not the raw power which is alone op  but the hidden perks:

1- If you win by a good margin, no repairs!!!. This makes a huge boon , i had my carrer fleet destroy 8 enemy fleets in one round, taking no dmg as only the fighters got killed. with normal ships it wouldnt be possible, i would take dmg each fight and would have to head back for repairs long before the 8 fights,

2- The automatic instant upgrades of fighter weapons. 

3- That is not an op feature but lets not forget all the all-fleet assist moduels boost all the fighters, becoming a deadly force mutliplier with the number of fighters.