Ex Mudder

Large Empire Penalty WAD?

Large Empire Penalty WAD?

   At first I was happy to see that change in large empire penalty from -1% per planet to -.2 per planet.

   Until I read the fine print.  11 planets.  -2.2 morale.  Your colony capital starts with a base 3 morale.  Now base .8

   WAD?

 

27,669 views 38 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting Wer900, reply 25


Quoting JorgenCAB,

That is way too easy to overcome... that will not stop a player from expanding in any way.

 

You need to make that a -1 for each time you double the empire to really matter, otherwise it could be a nice solution.



Then you could just remove the coefficient, to get the following values of morale reduction:

 

    • 1: 0

 

    • 2: -1

 

    • 4: -2

 

    • 8: -3

 

    • 16: -4

 

    • 32: -5

 

    • 64: -6

 


As compared with:

 

    • 1: -0.2

 

    • 2: -0.4

 

    • 4: -0.8

 

    • 8: -1.6

 

    • 16: -3.2

 

    • 32: -6.4

 

    • 64: -12.8

 


It would scale well with map size automatically and would provide a greater hit in the beginning of the game which would taper off even in the relatively early game.

 

I like this because it makes morale still a key part of the early game, and also really factors in to that very early game planet rush.

Reply #27 Top

Quoting JorgenCAB, reply 20

I don't like abilities such as Patriotic that get rid of ALL penalties like that. Patriotic should only receive half the penalty or something. Abilities like that can be abused to a very high degree, pretty much the same problem as the Engineering trait before that was changed.

 

 

I think it's fine as is.

 

You want something to be good enough to be "worth getting" or else nobody will choose it.

Reply #28 Top

No Patriotic is broken on very large maps. Smaller maps it hardly matters on larger ones it is quite OP.

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Reply #29 Top

I'm playing a insane sized map on v1.03 and only have 17 planets and the LEP is killing my morale,I noticed it when I got my 14th planet and by the time I'd got my 17th planet starting morale was at 17% and the only thing dragging it down was the LEP (I checked it) I haven't taken the malevent trait/ideology just playing as stock Terrans if this keeps on my next planets will openly revolt the moment I colonise them?

Please remove or fix this as soon as possible I would consider a large empire to start at 50 planets+

Reply #30 Top

I don't like to double post same things, but the way out from current situation is pretty obvious. Scaling Approval penalty to galaxy size or even to total number of habitable doesn't seems as an impossible task.

And, btw, do AI adapts to Approval penalty or continues to spam colonies as usual?

Reply #31 Top

Paul said It`s to be reworked it still needs. you`ll have to play smart on the Insane maps or atlease the bigger maps you`ll have to go for moral improvements be it buildings, Tech or Ideology as fast as you can. Also build starbases around planets with the modules for moral too. And,... don`t forget the relics . they only give 50% know instead of 90% But they help too.

 

EDIT ...

Reply #32 Top

In my opinion, this penalty seem to hurt the AI more than it does the player. The AI simply does not know how to develop its planets properly and largely ignore relics (for god knows what reason). After reaching their cap they either stop expanding altogether, or simply crumble upon themselves due to high unhappyness, whereas my empire finally flies through the roof in late games unopposed. Wish the late game would be more challenging... :(

 

 

Reply #33 Top

Yes I think the answer to your approval problems is to build an approval building. 5 star bases can surround a planet as well, and can add massive amounts of approval.

Reply #34 Top

Quoting kreaturen, reply 32

In my opinion, this penalty seem to hurt the AI more than it does the player. The AI simply does not know how to develop its planets properly and largely ignore relics (for god knows what reason). After reaching their cap they either stop expanding altogether, or simply crumble upon themselves due to high unhappyness, whereas my empire finally flies through the roof in late games unopposed. Wish the late game would be more challenging... :(

  

On higher difficulties AI can compensate zero Approval with it's bonuses. But one serious downside of low Approval is how such planets are vulnerable to invasions. 

And about ignoring relics... Dunno sometimes it does, but sometimes not... In one of my games against Gifted, Altarians managed to get like x5 more research than everyone else, because they manage to cap quite a few relics and their Ancient trait boosted them enormously. 

Reply #35 Top

I haven't tried the highest difficulties yet, as I find there is nothing wrong with AI expansion, growth and aggression in early stages of the game. There is always a couple civs way ahead of me in pretty much every field. I fear that if I increase the challenge, I will not live to see a late game at all ;P  Don't know, it takes forever to complete a game on insane maps, but I'll try to tweak the settings next time around.

I only play on Challenging right now, with gifted civs... The Iconians have actually managed to get one level 16 planet up to population 70 (which is astonishing as far as the AI goes). It is a one trick wonder though, because they have all stagnated otherwise, even though they were a pain in the butt earlier... Some of the civs have taken a few relics, but the majority of them were left untouched within their borders, until I took them. Maybe they are just programmed to be modest on lower difficulties?

Reply #36 Top

Quoting dansiegel30, reply 33

Yes I think the answer to your approval problems is to build an approval building. 5 star bases can surround a planet as well, and can add massive amounts of approval.

Which gets into the second issue:

The boredom of starbase spam.  

Clearly you're one of the types who enjoy spamming starbases so that you can spam MORE starbases EVEN FASTER.  

Reply #37 Top

I really do not believe that Morale should work anything like the way they set it up.  The biggest factor that affects the unity factor -- which is how Stardock is describing Morale = "patriotism" -- is communication.  Which for a high-tech civilization is at least as fast as the fastest ships in the empire's Navy.  With a good possibility of eventually creating an instantaneous comm network that connects the planets farthest from each other.  

Think of it this way:  Take the British empire or the United States as it sprawled across North America.  Despite communications that could take weeks to get a message from coast to coast, or from India to the Home Office in London.  Despite that comm lag, citizens at the extreme ends nonetheless came to think of themselves as being citizens of the Empire.  Proud to be British whether in London, South Africa, India, Hong Kong, et al.  Or citizens in Portland, ME or Portland, OR, or Anchorage, AK or even in Puerto Rico ALL thought of themselves as "Americans" first and foremost.  Where's the Morale hit in that where the individual citizens are obviously tiny little outposts of Empire, scattered across vast distances?

The real Morale adjustments generally came from 1) events that were so significant as to be of interest across the entire empire.  ("Remember the Alamo!", "Remember the Maine!", "Remember the Lusitania!", "Remember Pearl Harbor!", etc.)  And 2) unpopular governmental policies that affect specific citizens.  ("No taxation without representation!")  In the case of GC3, such events would be pursuing an unpopular war, winning or losing significant battles, bread-and-circuses, advances in propaganda/brainwashing, etc.

Given instantaneous or near-instantaneous communications, I see no reason why an honest-to-goodness star empire couldn't span 10,000 colonies.  But using GC3's Morale formulas, getting past 200 would be effectively impossible without the whole system falling to pieces.

Reply #38 Top

Quoting Captain, reply 37

I really do not believe that Morale should work anything like the way they set it up.  The biggest factor that affects the unity factor -- which is how Stardock is describing Morale = "patriotism" -- is communication.  Which for a high-tech civilization is at least as fast as the fastest ships in the empire's Navy.  With a good possibility of eventually creating an instantaneous comm network that connects the planets farthest from each other.

According to the Timeline, instantaneous communication already exists at the start of the game: the Yor researched it ~225000 years ago, and the Arceans did it ~1000 years ago (and shared it with the Altarians, Torians, and Drengin). In other words, communication time isn't a factor in keeping the empire together (or at least it shouldn't, based on the lore).