No hope for this game with this developer attitude its sad because it had so much potential to be what most wanted it to be

What makes you say that you havent even tried the game yet ;(

Planetary annihilation was an insult to sup com fans they didn't listen to what the players wanted and went off on their own direction like these devs are doing with AOTS same way most devs never listen to the their players they always get stuck on im gonna build the game i want and hopefully you like it i wasted money on this 

After seeing comments like

"Ok. Just to make this easy:

If you liked Supreme Commander you will absolutely hate this game. 

There.  Now, any similarities between the two will be coincidental and unexpected."

No chance this game will succeed 

Hello there.

I was reading this thread because this game really took me by susprise (the first time I heard if it was via a marketing mail some days ago) and my favorite RTS ever is Totala, and I felt this could be finally a true evolution (unlike SupCom, a great game, but not superior to Totala imho).

After reading a lot, I decided to reply here because, and I can only talk about myself, I'd love if true ballistics were in action in the game. Actually, is there a chance even terminal ballistics are true? I.E., could some weapon only be able to penetrate some armored unit from some angles and up to a certain range, etc? That would be simple amazing. 

About the units being groups of units, I'm all for it, I like the UI from CoH in this aspect and I really have unorganized blobs running around like idiots. I personally love Homeworld and formations worked kile a charm there, so I have no issues with it.

I understand the problem with full zoom with icons being allowed - anyone that doesn't WANT to play like that is in a huge disadvantage, so if you want people to actually fee the fight you gotta disallow it, but in fact I'm curious about the other solutions that can be used to make a huge scale RTS feel like you can control everything, not just spam and auto-attack. 

All in all, I'm glad this game is in the making and even more enthusiastic because it's not a visually enhanced Totala clone - as good as Totala was, things gotta evolve. 

Ok, since i helped start this. This thread is about zoom.....and it has it.....I also heard the comments about cloning and took them and ran with it. It was never the point. It has zoom enough to move around the battlefield quickly. I spent well over a hundred bux on starcraft 2 disk and dont even bother installing it now because the inability to move your view around the battlefield quickly is very annoying to me. Trust me, the last thing i want is an sc2 clone. Thats the reason i jumped at the opportunity to insist upon having zoom out with or without icons i dont care. It has zoom. I say again, it has zoom. When you watch the video i saw for myself. It has zoom lol. Thats that, on to the next thread. 

Frogboy mentioned that while TA fans are going to like the game, SupCom community is a slightly different market and AotS can be just not for them. Considering that almost any improvement in SupCom over TA was introduced in order to increase accessibility by allowing different playstyles, including those considered "bad practice" amongst e-sports crowd, the only real market AotS can really target is the present day's population of TA/SupCom/ZK/PA competitive multiplayer. Also, Frogboy said that he favors opinions of high-ranked players in any questions regarding gameplay and balance, so it's pretty clear that AotS will be their playground just like PA. Other gameplay details that were provided to general public, like absence of nukes, artillery and shields or base building territorial limitations, hint towards the guess as well. I've already spent $100 for PA to get a game I can't really enjoy, and I don't want to spend another $45 just to confirm hypothesis that have >90% probability anyway.

What I want to know will AOTS have a campaign like SCFA or PA's Galactic War?

Yeah, Homeworld did it in 1999. Black and White in 2001 has a zoom level which displayed the whole land.  Far Gate in 2001 is a space RTS with stratategic zoom.  ORB in 2002 is another space rts with strategic zoom. Haegemonia also in 2002 had strategic zoom complete with icons a la SupCom.  So lets stop saying out loud that we invented sliced bread by ourselves just last week. 

Have to say, these sort of illusions of grandeur and arrogance, coupled with "hey, happy to receive feedback, but we know better, and we'll actually be doing wathever we want, not what you, our customers and target for the game want"  make me a little nervous. Fingers crossed still.

Zoom in on a new unit:

This is the Apollo.  One other thing is that each unit gets dirt and grime over time and also shows damage. We're trying to decide how they should look right off the bat because they could so much better with some grime on them.  This screenshot is one right out of the factory.

And zoomed out:

Seriously, if you're going to be nasty then find another forum. 

We want to hear feedback. What we don't want, and what has been discussed endlessly, is for people to insist we make a clone of a game they want.  We run into this all the time with Galactic Civilizations (people who want it to be more like MOO).  Similarly, we are all fans of SupCom here but we are not looking to make a SupCom clone.  It's not a matter of us "knowing better", it's a matter of us wanting to make the game we want to make.

I only bring up our extensive experience with strategic zoom as evidence that we are not hostile to strategic zoom and that we have used it for many years now. 

On the bright side, if you consider what Homeworld 1 / Black & White to be strategic zoom then great as Ashes will likely have something at least to that degree.

I dont talk mush and wont talk  ,but you will always  receive from me and  rest founders like me , all the respect from your team work thats quite impressive.

Im a TA fan and rest series, but not point  discuss with them about that game.

Im 100% against  strategic zoom with icons and finaly i see a team try evolve that step.

I see a a team with  good professionals in this industry, that have great ideas ,keep us all the inf about the game we need.

Can i ask you to not answer again when TA or Supreeme commander or FAF fans comments comes up ,we need think only on this game but i understand you.

To us (you) TA-SCFA  FAF fans  i ask you all plz understand this game,they now what you all want but you all on rong foruns to talk about it .

AOTS its the closest game since FA but its a diferent game  to bether in other prespective gameplay.

So plz try give the right and positive feedback or plz just dont.

Lets all meet on battle and until there help in all we can on this  game  ,be on UI ,mapeditor,lobby,ranked,balanced units or more units wtever you think its bether on your comment here, to help this game and this fantastic team ,make AOTS bether.

I'd like you to have a short look at act of aggression. They didn't have a zoom feature, too....but now they implemented it. And they originally wanted to create a look and feel of command and conquer. For me that is a strong indication that zoom is a feature, that cant be left out anymore.

look here: http://steamcommunity.com/games/318020/announcements/detail/52141216279198541

My feed back regarding the current zoom level.

After spending a few hours playing AOTS messing around with the zoom I was fine with the current zoom level until my base got bigger, having played sup com for years I never scroll sideways on the map, I use supreme commanders strategic zoom to navigate the battle field, zoom out from one location and zoom back in at another, it makes game play very smooth and efficient.

I think the strategic zoom really was the magic is supcom, it made it feel like a much deeper and immersive experience, thinking back to when I played FA I don't remember the UI or mini map at all.  The less you have to rely on the UI the more immersive the experience, I understand why you don't want icons on every unit and its understandable, it has the potential to get very cluttered however I'm sure there are solutions to all your problems that will make everyone happy.

I play supcom2 RVE on two monitors, on the second is my map zoomed all the way out (like a large minimap) and I still zoom in and out of my mane monitor all the time, because strategic zoom is more than just a zoom, its a far superior way of navigating large maps, and much more immersive than using a minimap.

Wont you need lots of icons for a minimap on a second monitor anyway, so whats wrong with adding whatever information you would put on that into a strategic zoom?

Looking past the graphics and game play Playing AOTS at the moment feels like C&C or starcraft, it lacks the epicness feel that was supcom.

Lastly I think the devs fear of people sitting zoomed out watching icons is very misplaced.

I think absolutely when zoomed in the turrets should independentlay move, dirt should appear, damage etc and it should be my option to be able to zoom in and look at the details, especially early on.  But as this game evolves and bases become larger I envision this changing and It becoming less of a thing to want to have the user zoomed in to see all the shiny stuff.  Sup com was the same when it came out all the press was about individual animations of individual parts on units.  They even have the 360 degree view so you can look at your base from a sexy angle.  Its cool for that occasional awesome view of a spider bot slowly crawling towards a sexy base covered in sheild generators by ultimately who ever actually used it after that first time.. No one.  

It's got to look good but Ultimately cool visuals become like a background noise compared to practicality and ease of navigating the battlefield.  And currently aots is pretty bad for its navigating.  It's pretty pointless us debating it currently as our build is probably miles from what the devs are seeing.  But it's currently past the first 10 mins really easy for you to get lost and navigating around is a chore. 

With regards referencing other games, it's really the only way to explain game ideas and concepts by referencing the game your thinking about which best implemented that feature .. i don't think anyone's saying this game needs to needs to be like sup com, but sup com is currently the most popular and largest scale rts.,. and aots biggest advertisement is that it's going to be the new biggest scale rts, and that it's going to replace that game in terms of largest scale rts.  So you really can't complain if some sup com fans show up with certain expectations And in fact directly as a result of your advertising this game as the next biggest massive scale rts which was exactly how sup com advertised when it came out.   In fact if you was to take a poll I daubt there is a single person on these forums who hasn't lost a large portion of there life to sup com And I bet 95% came here with "sup com replacement ? " In there mind when they was looking at the advertisements and buying the game.  It's also important to note the wording there, replacement not clone ...I can't possibly imagine there's anyone actually on the forums demanding aots be exactly like sup com, I imagine someone though will do a mod that will do that about 10 days after you release the mod tool. 

When I read "it seems like SupCom fans have Planetary Annihilation to migrate to", A large peace of me died, Planetary Annihilation was a sad joke and the faster its forgotten about the better, I mean cartoon graphics and round maps... Just no.

agreed I brought pa, but haven't even loaded it up .. Just can't put my self through it .. As you say , cartoony and round maps is way to off putting. 

I did put $250 on PA because i did like the idea of this kind of RTS. the problem is that the game has no diversity, everything look the same, dead planets, and it missed something groundbreaking, its a Simple RTS in a way.

As soon as I heard PA had round maps I stoppled following it and have never looked back.

I also played a lot Supcom/FA, but i was not playing with icons in zoom out mode. I was taking advantage of zooming out to get a clear understanding of the battlefield, then i was zooming in and giving my orders. Having icons was really usefull to remember where all my units were located. That's why i see no reason here not to take advantage of icons for vizualization purpose. You can simply prevent units from being selected when zooming out.

Now that a few games have brought zoom out tech (supcom/fa, R.U.S.E, wargame series) there's a good balance to find in order not to frustrate people who like to play with zoom out and people who like play with zoom in. Best example is "Act of Agression" from eugen system which is to be released in september. Eugen has a nice 3D engine called IRIS engine and was used a lot with RUSE and Wargame series. Eugen decided to restrict the use of zoom out in "Act of Agression" because they wanted AOA to be a C&C like game. Lots of Beta players complained. Eugen first said they would not change. A few weeks ago, after beta feedbacks they have drastically increased the zoom out.

Lots of people would complain about not being able to zoom out when it comes to strategy. As far as i'm concerned, it's not about being able to play in zoom out mode by dragging icons from one location to another one. It's just to be able to understand the battlefield from a global view perspective.

I've never been able to play with a minimap but i understand people can't imagine to play without a minimap. And i'm pretty sure Ashes of singularity is a good opportunity to show that it's possible to satisfy everyone without affecting the core gameplay.

By the way have 2 questions :

1) where can i find more details about meta unit concept ?

2) I'm happy you're putting zone control as part of the gameplay. I have always dreamt about a mix between TA and Ground control

This is something I 100% agree with.  I also never played constantly zoomed out messing with a soup of icons.  And I know of no 1500 or above ranked player who does that.  Purely because you have to be closer to ensure your units are doing what you want (like not shooting into a hill) and more importantly to micro units, which is a big part of FAF.