[Feedback 0.701] Range Combat and Multiple Effects Idea

from SorcererKing Forums

I would like to recommend swapping lower initiative for range attacks with resistable movement-slowing effects, stuns, knock-backs, or initiative penalties for those hit by said range attackers. Moreover, I would like to explore the idea of traits that may cause random effects. Imagine random effects and how that would spice up battles! For example:

As-Is Range Attack:

  • Range attackers suffer a significant initiative penalty
  • Net effect is melee bum rush range and then open a can of whoop arse, assuming range attackers are not nukers such as Trog Archers.
  • In other words, range battles feels like lopsided victories or defeats either way. It also feels kind of boring.

Proposed Range Attack:

  • Remove initiative penalty
  • Implement the following possible resistable effects. Heck, maybe it's one cleverly named trait (something like "Blessing of Distance") that does a random effect out of X possible effects:
    • Nothing, if resisted
    • Lower victim initiative by X for Y turns
    • Lower victim movement by X for Y turns or to 1 for Y turns
    • Stun target for Y turns
    • Knock back target X tiles
    • Lower accuracy by X for Y turns
  • Weight each effect with a % chance of effect upon hit

In other words, why do effects always need to be between a resist and one effect? Why should a trait not lead to multiple possible effects? I feel this would spice up tactical battles by mixing up outcomes. Using web as an example:

  • 25% - nothing
  • 25% - web the target holding them in place
  • 25% - lower inititative
  • 25% - lower movement

What do you think?

4,795 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from SorcererKing Forums Top

I was thinking on this further. I look at a trait as the "cause" and the effect, well, as the "effect." Does a cause always lead to the same effect? What level of randomness in effects is appropriate and would be deemed fun?

Right now, it appears traits have 1 of 2 effects. They are resisted, or they are not. A web either holds a unit in place, or it does not. Thinking out loud here...

  • Leave certain traits as-is. 1 of 2 things happen, simple.
  • What if certain traits point to a table of possible effects and randomly chooses the effect from the table? In other words, all effect chances are weighted the same but the game randomly chooses the effect from the table's list of values. The table pointed to by the trait might the "Movement Impairing" table, thus the trait will choose an effect that makes sense for the trait.
  • What if a trait is mapped to specific effects and each effect is given a weighted % chance? This gives specific control of the effects to the designer, but still adds an element of randomness to the player. For example, 25% of web, 25% of initiative penalty, etc.
  • If a stat modifier is used, what if that effect is chosen at random from a range? For example, round 1 combat might be to throw the dice and the web slows the target by 1 movement (possible 1-2) for 2 turns (1-5 possible). Round 2 combat might be slow the target by 2 movement for 1 turn.

I have absolutely no idea how hard this would be to code or implement but the idea that there would be a controllable, yet fun, amount of randomness in tactical would be alright in my book.

Reply #2 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Quoting AlLanMandragoran, reply 1

What if certain traits point to a table of possible effects and randomly chooses the effect from the table? In other words, all effect chances are weighted the same but the game randomly chooses the effect from the table's list of values. The table pointed to by the trait might the "Movement Impairing" table, thus the trait will choose an effect that makes sense for the trait.

This is easy to do in the current system.  Spells (abilities) can have an ApplyRandomModifier tag which chooses randomly, with equal distribution, among the list GameModifiers(effects.)  I think your idea would be valid in certain situations.  I think the main problem with Archers (plaeyr built) right now is that they don't have a sound set of abilities.

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Reply #3 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Oh, cool thanks. It sounds like if I modded this, it would be any random effect? Would I be able to limit web to specific "web-type" effects or could I possibly get something crazy like a frozen effect or a on fire effect that would make no sense? I may need to stop being lazy and dabble in minor modding.

Reply #4 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Quoting AlLanMandragoran, reply 3

Oh, cool thanks. It sounds like if I modded this, it would be any random effect? Would I be able to limit web to specific "web-type" effects or could I possibly get something crazy like a frozen effect or a on fire effect that would make no sense? I may need to stop being lazy and dabble in minor modding.

I wasn't necessarily suggesting that you do it, I'm just pointing out that it is an interesting idea, and the devs wouldn't need to do any coding other than xml work (which is much easier) to implement it.

Reply #5 from SorcererKing Forums Top

I am certainly in favor of doing something to spice up ranged combat a bit. I like the idea of traits/abilities that take their results from a semi-random table like that. I definitely like the idea of an archer ability to lower initiative - after all, a large part of the role of archers in combat, historically, speaking was to help break up enemy formations as they moved around the battlefield. We don't have formations per se in SK, but initiative is a nice substitute.

On the other hand, as I have pointed out in another thread, player archers have some survival issues that might have to be sorted out in the first place.

Reply #6 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Quoting AlLanMandragoran, reply 3

Oh, cool thanks. It sounds like if I modded this, it would be any random effect? Would I be able to limit web to specific "web-type" effects or could I possibly get something crazy like a frozen effect or a on fire effect that would make no sense? I may need to stop being lazy and dabble in minor modding.

And to actually answer the rest of your questions, you define the actual possible effects of the ability, so no you won't get weird results that make no sense.

Reply #7 from SorcererKing Forums Top


Ok, thanks mqpiffle. I have attempted to dabble with modding every now and then but I get distracted by laser pointers and squirrels.