Sorcerer King: Week 1

Greetings!

The first week of the Sorcerer King beta has been both exciting and terrifying.  On the one hand, the people who play the game seem to really like it.  On the other, people who have only seen the screenshots think it looks like Fallen Enchantress which makes us very sad.

Update 1 = this week

We’re getting ready to roll out the first update. Lots of changes in it.  A lot of performance optimizations have gone in that should be noticeable to everyone.  There’s also been a lot of small polish improvements that will be almost immediately apparent.

What’s being worked on

image

So internally, there’s a lot of cool stuff in.  And here I’ll talk about them:

Intangible Resources

Things you do in the game can now provide intangible resources that are acted on by the behind the scenes Dungeon Master.  They also can affect the Sorcerer King.

image

The Sorcerer King’s goal is to destroy the shards so he can become a god.  He doesn’t really recognize you at first. But as you do things, he starts to notice and you have to be really careful about how fast you want to be noticed because once he considers you a threat, he will start targeting you a lot more intensely.

Another part of the intangible resources are having consequences to your earlier actions.  Here are examples of things that might happen depending on how much of a given intangible you have (the more you have, the more dice rolling starts to happen).

  1. Are you really cruel? Well, the people may rise up against you.
  2. Are you really indifferent? The people may flock to another kingdom or start a new kingdom entirely that shows up mid game! Suddenly it’s you vs. the SK vs. a new major player
  3. Are you really compassionate? You may get help from unlikely sources when you’re in need
  4. Do you have a lot of fame? An unexpected champion may join your cause
  5. Are you really brave? You may find that certain new recipes start to show up thanks to your scholars looking in dangerous places by following your heroic lead.
  6. Have you been a coward? Be careful, you may find some of your soldiers following that lead as well.
  7. and so on.

When one of these resources get added, they show up in two places:

A. In the quest results screen (or in a dialog screen) that indicates that a change has occurred to one of these intangibles.

B. In the quest screen which will give you a running total of any non-zero character traits you’ve picked up on.

From a game design point of view, these are very interesting because we could eventually have certain types of spells or abilities that come at the cost of one of these intangibles.

Modders take note: Imagine making a custom unit (we don’t have in-game unit customization but it’s all XML still) and having abilities that require certain intangible resources.  Intangible resources, code-wise are the same as metal or crystal.  So if you’re heroic enough, you could have a special ability called “Heroic Strike!”. 

 

The Minor factions

image

The minor factions are all very different both visually and in how they deal with the world.

It’s important to think of these minor factions as being the players you recently played Fallen Enchantress (or any other fantasy 4X).  They weren’t your friends before and now you are coming to them to try to get them to help you.  To be fair, some of them might be friendlier to you than others. But they may still hate each other. Being friends with Pariden, for instance, means life is much harder in dealing with Ceresa.  

image

image

image

image

Maps Maps Maps

We will be trickling out more pre-made maps as we figure out which types of maps players enjoy the most.  My personal favorite isn’t in the game yet, it’s an island map. 

But we’ve been adding THE RED TILES OF DOOM to our editor to show tiles that ruin performance on the Intel 4000 cards.  In the first beta, there were a lot of these tiles where too many textures were being put together in a small area and causing the Intel graphics card a lot of grief.  So if you see one of these red tiles, let us know.

image

Red tiles of performance doom

More to come soon!

114,341 views 44 replies
Reply #1 Top

Would it be possible to make an intagible variable, Goodwill, and make spell using 'Goodwill'. For example an evil player could use 'Goodwill' to gain mana/power/life/units etc. in exchange for sacrificing population. Normally the population would rise up against the player, but because of the Goodwill, the population would think it is ok to use some humans/people in the greater good of establishing the Empire of Frogs.

 

BTW It sounds nice with the intagible. However I think some of the intagibles variables should be hidden, so the player will get some surprises. Fame for example could be visible, while cruelty should be hidden.

Reply #2 Top

Quoting thimon2k, reply 1

Would it be possible to make an intagible variable, Goodwill, and make spell using 'Goodwill'. For example an evil player could use 'Goodwill' to gain mana/power/life/units etc. in exchange for sacrificing population. Normally the population would rise up against the player, but because of the Goodwill, the population would think it is ok to use some humans/people in the greater good of establishing the Empire of Frogs.

 

BTW It sounds nice with the intagible. However I think some of the intagibles variables should be hidden, so the player will get some surprises. Fame for example could be visible, while cruelty should be hidden.

Yep. Could be done by a modder even.  A resource is a resource is a resource. :)

Reply #3 Top

I see a grammar error:

 

The sorcerer king is paying us 100 gildar for every dwarf bring to him alive

 

It should read:

The sorcerer king is paying us 100 gildar for every dwarf we bring to him alive or

The sorcerer king is paying us 100 gildar for every dwarf brought to to him alive

Reply #4 Top

@Frogboy - I would assume that this is part of the Dungeon Master AI that you have been telling us about?

Either way, very very cool.

Reply #5 Top

I agree this looks very promising.  I just hope it's implemented such that it can't be 'gamed' to hard.

Reply #6 Top

I'm not sure whether it's a good idea to show what intangibles we have, after all, doesn't it just allow us to go for all the compassionate, famous, brave actions etc. that bring the best returns (although if brave actions require a loss it might not be the best bet)?  For example, it's not really being compassionate if you are just doing it for the rewards.  And the idea of being compassionate relies on doing that for the sake of doing the right thing, and not because you get a nice reward.  (People would understand you have a hidden motive if you were just choosing it to get rewards.)

PS: I do like the idea that, for example, things that result from losing show the benefit, whereas choices don't show what they are adding to.

PPS: If you tell us what each dialogue choice gives now, it means we can game it more on release.  Can you hide intangibles?  This would be especially important if these are more/less favourable.

Reply #7 Top

What Steve says reminds me of a similar issue in Divinity Original Sin where you end up gaming your moral choices for the bonuses. This might be less of an issue though since the rewards are resources - as long as their use has some flexibility! Ideally each resource should have one of 3 possible uses so you don't feel straitjacketed into particular choices as a result of your particular strategic situation. 

Reply #8 Top

I feel it is important to have these intangibles not be implemented in a purely elementary school teacher manner. (In other words, being cruel only has bad effects, being famous only has good effects, etc.) Intangibles should be about trade-offs, not a moralistic lesson in min-maxing.

 

Reply #9 Top

Quoting HenriHakl, reply 8

I feel it is important to have these intangibles not be implemented in a purely elementary school teacher manner. (In other words, being cruel only has bad effects, being famous only has good effects, etc.) Intangibles should be about trade-offs, not a moralistic lesson in min-maxing. 

But this is good vs. evil game, isn't it?

One suggestion: if the player is extremely cruel, angry and generally evil he/she should be able to take Sorcerer King's place, ha!

Reply #10 Top

I've been arguing with Derek re good and evil.  the Sorcerer King is the good guy, the player is the bad guy.

Reply #11 Top

The early game has already impressed me, so these ideas, for now, and the future are quite exciting.  I am not sure what some of it means, but it still sounds exciting.  :) 

Reply #13 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 10

I've been arguing with Derek re good and evil.  the Sorcerer King is the good guy, the player is the bad guy.

 

What makes the Sorceror king the good guy? Oh wait, I'm evil because I'm a sore loser? I understand now. xD

Reply #14 Top

I think it would be best if all intangibles remain hidden, and you do stuff under the hood so that they're not worth the same amount every time you play and don't have exactly the same hidden numerical effect in different playthroughs (and the breakthrough number is different each time to within a range).

Reply #15 Top

I agree, it should both be under the hood, and be randomized enough so that you don't know what the effects will be.

 

Reply #16 Top

How 'bout no?  Forcing players to roleplay, or whatever the intent of hiding this info is would be stupid.  Players will figure it out eventually anyway, and by eventually I mean right quick, since it will all be visible in the xml.  An option to hide or show it, on the other hand, would be super groovy.

Quoting Frogboy, reply 10

I've been arguing with Derek re good and evil.  the Sorcerer King is the good guy, the player is the bad guy.

What?  Did you get your hands on an elusive copy of Villains by Necessity, or recently play Blackguards or something?  Hopefully Kael is telling you the player is the good guy and you will listen.  I shudder to think of how much more work would be required to make it plausible that the player is the bad guy.

Reply #17 Top

I could see it working being visible, as long as there are positives and negatives for being cruel, compassionate etc (as is already in the game, cruel people get good items but suffer in their own kingdom, compassionate people get more help but have to forgo getting immediate items).

Reply #18 Top

Will it be possible to base available decisions/events/quests upon multiple intagibles? For example fame, famous, and cruelty, could lead to feared king, who beheads his own people in order to save the world for the greater good, or a brave and (hidden) malicious good king could lead to a revolt, when his people find out that their king has lived a double life - experimenting upon his own people.

 

Of course you can also let you inspire by Civilization, where you have the "golden age", if you have shown kind, passionate and brave leadership, your own people spontanous throws a celebration party to celebrate their famous good honest kind passionate king in a world of despair. 

 

Will cities have unrest or some kind of mechanic to illustrate the effectiveness of cities.

 

Evil vs. good: 

From the perspective of the Sorcerer King, he is the good guy, because he saved the world from these peckering king fools/idiots, who have not seen the great idea of the Sorcerer King being God so he can end suffering, war, famine and death (for himself :) ).

From the perspective of the defeated kings and queens he is still the bad evil cruel king, as he would not let them spread their ideas to the rest of the world, while they are the good guys as it is only them who can save the world and create peace and stability.

It is all about the means to the end e.g. warfare, alliances, subterfuge, (lack of) magic or just pure old-fasioned evil cruelty.

Reply #19 Top

Quoting StevenAus, reply 6

I'm not sure whether it's a good idea to show what intangibles we have, after all, doesn't it just allow us to go for all the compassionate, famous, brave actions etc. that bring the best returns (although if brave actions require a loss it might not be the best bet)?  For example, it's not really being compassionate if you are just doing it for the rewards.  And the idea of being compassionate relies on doing that for the sake of doing the right thing, and not because you get a nice reward.  (People would understand you have a hidden motive if you were just choosing it to get rewards.)

PS: I do like the idea that, for example, things that result from losing show the benefit, whereas choices don't show what they are adding to.

PPS: If you tell us what each dialogue choice gives now, it means we can game it more on release.  Can you hide intangibles?  This would be especially important if these are more/less favourable.

 

Your preferred approach to quest implementation reminds me of the way diplomatic choices were handled in early Civ5, which people generally disliked and was patched fairly quickly.

I somewhat disagree: I think it should be very clear what general category of 'hidden' resource the choices will affect before choices are made. This could be made clear through enforcing a strict format for the quest writer, but given the humorous approach taken in this area and the resulting ambiguousness of some of the quest texts, I feel that a label or tooltip for the choices might be needed, eg: Compassionate/Courageous, Cowardly, Courageous/Evil etc.

I totally understand wanting to not turn the quest presentation into 'choose the best numbers' game, and I'd be happy for the values to be hidden and randomised (without the possibilty of positives to hidden resources becoming negatives and vice versa) especially more tangible benefits like loot/follower rewards, but the fact is if I want to play as a largely compassionate leader then I should be able to find the right quest choices to that end, not have to second guess if 'ending the tavern brawl' means evilly slaying all the patrons and stealing their stuff or acting more nobly.

 

Reply #20 Top

Quoting thimon2k, reply 18

Will cities have unrest or some kind of mechanic to illustrate the effectiveness of cities.

I am not fan of unrest or level-up buildings coming back. I do think, however, that the cities need SOME level of specialization, be it unique buildings, exclusive building paths or wonders.

I am thinking about large maps with tens of cities? All of them the same? No strategic choice how to build them? <_<

Reply #21 Top

I've somewhat changed my stance, if there are advantages to all options (as suggested in Reply #17).  For example, if the "I'm coming to get you" said to the Sorcerer King gives you big bravery points, but makes you get attacked more fiercely, or you get some bravery for losing a battle, I can see there is a suitable tradeoff here too.

I don't think we need to say which option is which, if it is clear which is the brave option, the compassionate option, the famous option, the cruel option etc.  I think it would be kinda nice if we can work out successfully from the written dialogues which is which, without having it spelled out, or learn from experience or from others.

Reply #22 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 10

I've been arguing with Derek re good and evil.  the Sorcerer King is the good guy, the player is the bad guy.

 

That would be such a twist to the norm.  One advantage of being evil would not feeling bad about killing bunny's and virgins.

Reply #23 Top

I view the SK as evil, but if you really wanted him to be good, the backstory could be changed to something like this:

Elemental was in ruins and beyond repair. The SK looked on the world with sadness and despair, but also resolve. He would make things right...and knew just how to do it. He would destroy the world and start over, creating a new Elemental that would prosper and grow under his watch...but how? only by becoming a god could he achieve such a lofty goal. 

Reply #24 Top

The SK is the good guy because the SK won and history is written by the victors.  

Reply #25 Top

Quoting Borg999, reply 23

Elemental was in ruins and beyond repair. The SK looked on the world with sadness and despair, but also resolve. He would make things right...and knew just how to do it. He would destroy the world and start over, making a new Elemental that would prosper and grow under his watch...but how? only by becoming a god could he achieve such a lofty goal. 

You talking about SK or Brad in late 2010?