Please get rid of the tech ages.

Please.

After playing the game extensively now and replaying galciv2 I now know for fact tech ages are inhibiting my game speed and fun level substantially.

In a galciv2 game I am playing my tech research patterns are diverse and strategic choices that go deep into some branches and shallow into other as the situation calls for or by player preference.

However in a galciv3 game no such strategic depth or excitement exist in comparison to its predecessor. For it is impossible to exercise much less entertain the idea of a fully developed and tailored strategy like galciv2.

To remind people who have not recently played galciv2 and say there is little difference between the two, let me tell you something about my last game. I was MADE to research about 10 techs I didn't want or need while my empire desperately needed better improvements like banks, farms, and most importantly -the now regulated- logistics. All the while if diplomacy was in the game right now I would assure you that each and every civilization would have nearly the same techs at the first era and end up technologically identical possibly into the second era.

In galciv2 I just worked my way to a position I personally liked and choose. I wanted to get diplomacy3 so I strategized and made a empire that could research that tech in a feasible time. I nor anyone else did not need tech ages to regulate the way and pace of research for it was a matter having the tech points or not and making choices. Even with planetary invasion being rushed the consequences then and most definitely now will never be worth while compared to a balanced empire.

Honestly.

 

DARCA ;)

92,816 views 41 replies
Reply #1 Top

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the intent of the tech ages.  To make sure no one gets too far ahead.

 

 

Reply #2 Top

I hate tech ages too. Tech trees shouls be free to research any branch as you like.
Focusing on an expensive tech means you don't research other easier ones so you don't win something it's just a strategy.

Tech ages is just a bad idea, if the final game comes with them I will try to create a mod to disable them, shouldn't be difficult

Reply #3 Top

I also agree that the tech ages should be removed.

Reply #4 Top

I'm not sure how I feel about the tech ages yet. I've definitely felt their constraints and it's made me do things differently than I would have normally but I'm not sure I'm ready to say get rid of them completely just yet. We've still got a bit of time before the release so I want to see what more they wil do with it before I pass final judgement.

Reply #5 Top

I`ve not felt that restriction with the way I`ve been researching it has not been an issue. Remember the Dev`s are still balancing The game,.... it may just need more tweaking. 

Reply #6 Top

Well, IMO they did it so people couldn't invade other colonies by doing a rush. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter as you can wipe out their starports and then wait a long time to get the invasion tech to take them out anyway.

It doesn't make much sense IMO that I can be large vessels with deadly weapons and send them all over the galaxy, but not troops.  o_O

Really, I still don't even understand why invasion should not be available right off the bat. If you can send billions of people on a colony ship (which really must be enormous) we can't you send soldiers in a modified ship to bring tanks, artillery,support and such instead?

 

Reply #7 Top

There are other purposes to the tech ages. Who knows that if you enter the age of war then the world will be populated by the great menace of DOOM. Set to destroy any planet around. There are so many different applications for the tech ages in the game.

Another fun tech age item, if exists is for DLC. In the beginning tech ages the ships have a different skin (material) on their bodies, when you advance the materials change to look more modern or fancy. Take the irridium mirror like sheen. In the beginning it is kind of dull in look and progressively gets more shiny. (Not saying that is a good idea for look, but a possibility).

I've not made a decision one way or the other with the tech ages, and by looking at the XML it appears one can remove their functionality anyway (once modding becomes a thing). I would like to know what extra functionality the tech ages will have in the future, before I say remove the tech ages.

Reply #8 Top

In galciv2 we just worked our way to a position we personally liked and choose. When we wanted to get diplomacy3 we strategized and made a empire that could research that tech in a feasible time without worry of a blockade for having one was and is unnecessary. I nor anyone else did not need tech ages to regulate the way and pace of research for it was a matter having the tech points or not and making choices. Even with planetary invasion being rushed the consequences then and most definitely now will never be worth while compared to a balanced empire. The only proven major out come from tech ages is that player games are now limited in options and thus fun. No one normal plays galciv3 the way the tech ages were made to prevent. Only innocent players, meaning everyone are will be effected by this completely unnecessary and redundant system.

Honestly.

 

DARCA ;)

Reply #9 Top

Let us assume that the tech ages are not their to hinder players or help beginner players balance their tech production, and answer the questions under this premise.

What purpose could the tech ages serve in the game?

What implications could be derived from having them in the game vs. not having them in the game?

In what ways could the tech ages be advantageous to the game?

Then let us play the other way around. Let us assume that the tech ages are their to hinder players advancement or help beginner players balance their tech production, and answer those same questions.

If you take the time to honestly answer these questions, we can influence them to remove or advance the way tech ages are implemented.

Reply #10 Top

I believed the intention was to have the game last longer and to cull loop sided empires. As a seemingly good idea and packaged to feel innovative.

How ever on the down side I must say that the concept in it self is a paradox. To have people uniformly research to a arbitrary point then repeat the process, you will have a basic round little empire but it will be free if the special touch we personally give our empires. And the difference is apparent the more each game progresses, there is very little specialization and alot of tech similarity between empires.

As for the intention to cull loop sided empires I say the game already does this. Anytime you research mostly one type of tech like military techs, you are not as secure as a economically balanced empire but it is always a strategic decision. To that end in a game of player choice researching military or diplomatic or colonization techs however deep into the tree is a player choice sparked by the situation or strategic preference, and should not be limited in any way.

And come on parrotmath, honesty is my greatest virtue. Its in the title of my bug report and I ended the OP in it! I might even change my middle name to honest. DARCA Honest Twelve-Thirteen. But I'd rather change my middle name to 'Doctor' just for the laughs. :)

 

DARCA. ;)

Reply #11 Top

Not saying your not honest DARCA1213. The intention is to answer the questions beyond a 1 word answer as none. There are lots of implications that can be done with tech ages, that could be subtly drawn from non-tech ages.

If there point was to prevent people from rushing a tech like planetary invasion, then it's simple to stop that

First you need Dimplomacy / Cultural understanding to not drop your pods into poor areas of their cities. Be a bad idea to drop your pod in a building designed to collect urine gasses... landing pod... booom. The society could make that a shrine from other peoples views.

You need minaturization to ensure appropriate rocket thrusts to land these pods safely and effectively.

You need to be able to colonize planets in order to enable the pod transports to begin with.

Need appropriate weapon technologies to ensure dominance on the battle field.

This is just as effective at stopping the early game rush on this scale. My point is that with these tech ages, they have something more planned involved. I can see more implications on growth views on the galaxy. Advancement to the next tech age could provide an advance new prototype flagship. Or the initial tech age advancement could provide a new specialized starbase capital providing a different type of platform to rule your galaxy from.

This feature could be a platform for other features in DLC or base game. But if it is just to stop people from rushing down the tech tree, then I think they are not using the potential provided.

Reply #12 Top

The fact that the same techs are in different ages for different races means to me the intention of ages is to give some distinctiveness to the different races in how they play.

Reply #13 Top

From comments in the dev stream, Ages are a scaffold to help the AI.  That's a substantial consideration.  It's Not Just About You.

It's also been pointed out that Ages can abstract away a rat's-nest of interconnected dependencies.  You could replace Ages with dozens (hundreds?) of new cross-tree dependency links for "realism" or storytelling.  That would incidentally prevent (or punish) beelining.  But the UI can't even display a graph of that complexity (N.B. it is no longer a tree! that's also a really big deal), we can't print it out even on a wall poster (GC2's tech tree was a two-sided wall poster), and newbies would just get lost.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Avatar137, reply 4

the tech ages yet. I've definitely felt their constraints and it's made me do things differently than I would have normally but I'm not sure I'm ready to say get rid of them completely just yet. We've still got a bit of time before the release so I want to see wha

 

This post pretty much sums up what I was going to post on this...I have also felt the constraints (most notably with logistics) however understand that tech ages can be interesting (and may yet be improved upon) and act as a balance on tech rushing.

 

I would say that at the moment instead of a hard block I feel there should be an increased research cost into going into a future tech age (something like a +10% research production penalty each step deeper into a future/undiscovered age perhaps?), it would encourage you to stay in your age without fully restricting you from techs you may want/need at the time. 

Reply #15 Top

Under NO circumstance should tech strategy be LIMITED in a strategy game. It is not worth giving the AI help in this situation for what we would LOSE will be far to great.

I felt my OP and previous post has total OBLITERATED any argument for tech ages and was well spoken. I'm going to do a recap and if ANYTHING on the list you use or love doing you can no longer do, than the cost is to great:

 

-You CANNOT research the way you want.

- you are HAVE TO inevitably research something you don't want, thus wasting time.

- The difference between races strategies when tech trading is greatly DIMINISHED.

- You can go to the second age and still NOT be ready if you don't research in research techs. Which comes back to player choice, judgment, and strategy. (fun too.)

- You CAN'T specialize in a tech branch if you're ready or not for their are tech ages.

- With a CHEATING AI this game, our human edge is nerfed by the complete lack of crucial specialization.

- If only half of the techs have to be researched the first age why research the rest? If you didn't go in a particular area for your strategy then, why go into it now? Like in galciv2 something's you CHOOSE not to research because you didn't WANT to or NEED to.

Again, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should we be limited in strategic choices, its not FUN its not Sovereign.

 

DARCA. ;) 

Reply #17 Top

Uhmmm   . . . . . . . .   I really don't know !


Reply #18 Top

I do not really understand much about the function of tech ages. I practically just see it as nothing more than a decorative feature to flesh out the environment, since I couldn't recall being directly affected by it before. Anyone care to elaborate what's it actual effect?

/Not a troll question

Reply #19 Top

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 15

Under NO circumstance should tech strategy be LIMITED in a strategy game.

This is an absurd argument. Tech strategy is ALWAYS limited in strategy game. It's limited by the way the tree is set up. Many games limit tech strategy with a web of interlocking pre-requisites, others with escalating costs and simple straight-line progression, but you are always constrained by the tree in one way or another. This issue is not that you are limited, but that you are limited in a specific way that you don't like.

I don't think the problem is the mechanic, I think it's the presentation. Right now the ages feel like a wall you run into (though honestly, after a few games I found I hardly ever noticed it except for when I was waiting on planetary invasion). Instead they should feel like important milestones you reach. Hitting the next age should feel like a break-through moment, when suddenly your options open up before you. There should also be something in the game that explains why you are suddenly in a new age. What has fundamentally changed about your understanding of the universe that suddenly new avenues of research reveal themselves to you? 

The ages are a good thing. They provide a structure around which the game is organized. Their implementation and presentation though, leave something to be desired. 

Obviously this is an issue that is really getting to you DARCA, but it's not as cut and dry as you want it to be.

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Reply #20 Top

Um.  Well, in the two games that I have played, I was quite a bit into the Age of War before I was even remotely done with the early bits of the Altarian tech tree.

I guess that if I hadn't bothered researching Defences (which are apparently useless!) I might have run into a bit of a wall.

Reply #21 Top

I feel that given the game is in a constant state of war it makes the "age wall" a bigger issue than it might necessarily be since most of the complaints seem to be "I want planetary invasion now!".  Once we get to Beta 2 and I assume back to a normal game start it will be interesting to see whether people find the age wall as confronting as it is now.

 

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Reply #22 Top

Quoting peregrine23, reply 19

Quoting DARCA1213,

Under NO circumstance should tech strategy be LIMITED in a strategy game.



This is an absurd argument. Tech strategy is ALWAYS limited in strategy game. It's limited by the way the tree is set up. Many games limit tech strategy with a web of interlocking pre-requisites, others with escalating costs and simple straight-line progression, but you are always constrained by the tree in one way or another. This issue is not that you are limited, but that you are limited in a specific way that you don't like.

I don't think the problem is the mechanic, I think it's the presentation. Right now the ages feel like a wall you run into (though honestly, after a few games I found I hardly ever noticed it except for when I was waiting on planetary invasion). Instead they should feel like important milestones you reach. Hitting the next age should feel like a break-through moment, when suddenly your options open up before you. There should also be something in the game that explains why you are suddenly in a new age. What has fundamentally changed about your understanding of the universe that suddenly new avenues of research reveal themselves to you? 

The ages are a good thing. They provide a structure around which the game is organized. Their implementation and presentation though, leave something to be desired. 

Obviously this is an issue that is really getting to you DARCA, but it's not as cut and dry as you want it to be.

they call your first paragraph nit picking nonsense where I'm from, I am constrained by not being able to research diplomacy tech the way and as far as I want, that's wrong. The down side from tech ages are so apparent it is very cut and dry. It doesn't take a genius to know it is not a good edition from galciv2.

Reply #23 Top

So we should eliminate all barriers in the tech tree make it so you can research any tech at any time ? Ill research the i win tech victory on turn one game over 

Reply #24 Top

So I may have accidentally made a mod that gives you access to the Ages of War and Ascension without needing to amass a fixed number of tech points.  You still need to research along the desired path, but you aren't held back by ages so far as I can tell.

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Reply #25 Top

Quoting MarvinKosh, reply 24

So I may have accidentally made a mod that gives you access to the Ages of War and Ascension without needing to amass a fixed number of tech points.  You still need to research along the desired path, but you aren't held back by ages so far as I can tell.

Exactly!

but at this point we aren't here settling for modds but influencing the game.