Start8 - change to licensing is deceitful. 1.45 has problems. What a stupid mess you have got yourselves into. Please sort it out and apologise.

I am sorry you have experienced problems but I do need to correct a few things.

As far as I am aware the website has never said you can use it on all your computers, we had a more relaxed activation policy due to the inability to deactivate machines though it did have limits which people did hit, but some customers found this annoying so we developed a new system which allowed deactivations.  In line with that the limits were set to still be flexible, but not quite as flexible as the deactivation option dealt with the reason for the added flexibility originally.  I hope you can accept that five personal computers running Windows 8 is somewhat outside the norm and the activation system is setup to handle typical scenarios which would be a desktop and a laptop at most.  The product is only $5 so allowing unlimited installs has never been our policy.

I believe you should find the EULA remains the same for number of computers licensed since 1.0 and you are welcome to compare it from your 1.0 installer.  I imagine downloads of 1.0 are on the web as the trial would be the exact same installer.  Should there be a difference in this then I would imagine the original EULA you agreed to at time of purchase would apply in terms of number of computers permitted.

There is nothing to stop you continuing to use 1.41 as you have done so and other than some small additional bug fixes and the new activation system it is 99% the same as 1.45.  I would recommend unticking the option to check for updates each week though as you will get annoyed with it telling you about updates every week!

Uninstalling all of their products from my pc's......

I've deactivated it on my laptop and then reinstalled 1.41 - when I get back to the other two machines I'll do the same with them.

I also have ModernMix on two machines, only one was upgraded and I'll deactivate and revert that one too.

I admit I never read the EULA - who does? But I do remember being told it was fine to install on all my personal machines. Is 5 personal computers really so unusual in the 21st century?

Not at all......but balking at paying $5 (five dollars ?!?) per machine for software you clearly like (and want to use) is strange (at least to me).

Did you complain to Microsoft when they didn't allow you to install the same copy of Windows on all 5 of your machines?  Just wondering...

I agree with GrowelTigers.  When I purchased Object Desktop Subscription (includes Start 8, Decor8, etc.) it was a very noteworthy selling point (in the FAQs as I recall)that it permitted installation and activation on all my computers.  For Stardock to alter this policy without warning is a low blow.  It's also stretches credulity that Stardock wanted the more restrictive policy to start with but couldn't "due to the inability to deactivate machines" -- the relaxed policy sold your product.  You could have simply chosen not to allow activation over 5 computers to begin and been upfront with your customers, then deactivation is not needed.  Instead, Stardock has created more than just the appearance of bait-and-switch.  I'm sure I'm not alone in believing this so-called deactivation option (huh? I wasn't given an option) is intended to generate new revenue from customers who already bought the product -- many perhaps like me, a once happy customer that shilled your brand to friends and colleagues based on great Stardock products, and it's forward thinking activation policy.  You've botched it.  Lack of communication. Dissembling and dishonest.

You've violated my property and I want it back.

Microsoft doesn't tell you, as Stardock did, that you may install the product on all your PCs (not 5, not 2, all your PCs).  Obviously $5 is not the point -- it's being lied to.

Can you provide a link to this promise please as I am personally unaware of this.  What I will say is ObjectDesktop customers get more activations than standalone customers.

I should also say that having more than 5 personal computers as you seem to have would be extremely unusual and would trigger pretty much any companies anti piracy systems.

Regarding the deactivation option, you should find this on the about page in each of the updated products.  In the past you may have seen forum posts about hitting activation limits as people reinstalled PCs.  The deactivation option was designed to better handle this case as we have some customers who for reasons beyond me reinstall their OS every month!

What you haven't considered is that I don't have more than 5 PCs but since 2012 have activated Start8 on PCs and/or virtual machines that are no longer available.  How do I deactivate those?

I believe that shouldn't be a problem and the system should handle that correctly.

It is worth noting that that's the whole point of allowing deactivation for the customer vs having to mail support.

It's not handling it correctly.  Unless you have a date stamp on each of my activations and can therefore purge activations prior to, say January, then I need all my activations purged and then I can activate on my present machines.

You said, "I should also say that having more than 5 personal computers as you seem to have would be extremely unusual and would trigger pretty much any companies anti piracy systems."

You don't have to say that.  Having 5 computers is not an anti-piracy violation and does not trigger anti-piracy systems.  You're insinuating that I pirate software, and I'm offended by that

In other words I can install and activate Start8 on all my computers...I use one computer at a time.

That's what I read in October 2012 when I purchased the Start8 software.  That was on Stardock's website in FAQs under Support.  You can revisit the Stardock website throughout its history and read that article by visiting the Internet Archive Wayback Machine.

Now how about an apology?

Thank you DonRay for digging out exactly what I remember reading. I liked the terms Stardock gave, they suited me perfectly. And I liked the way they were written. This was one of the reasons I recommended it to others. I am very unhappy to think of all the people who have installed it on my personal recommendation, who may now be having problems.

The suggestion by "the_Monk" that I balk at paying $5 per machine is unfair and ridiculous and nothing to do with what has happened here. I would happily have paid $25 up front.

(I'm not sure their system even allows the purchase of multiple copies, so perhaps I would have to set up five email addresses.)

Please recall what I wrote at the top: "What a stupid mess you have got yourselves into. Please sort it out and apologise."

That would appear to be a very old Q&A from 2005 which in fact predates activation being added to any products.  I would need to know the URL to that as clearly that's legacy.  A search on the title only shows https://esupport.stardock.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/198/0/can-i-install-my-copy-on-more-than-one-machine which seems to indicate otherwise.

However I must point out that it does say or a desktop and a laptop which adds up to two.  It is also worth pointing out that Start8 starts on bootup and thus are in use instantly.

The older EULA from say 2009 (well before Start8) says

YOU MAY:
1. Install and use one copy of the
SOFTWARE on a single computer.

2. Install a second copy of the SOFTWARE on a
second computer only if you are the main user of
this computer (home computer or laptop for
example).

As you can see it clearly talks about a SECOND computer, not a THIRD, FOURTH etc.  With the introduction of the $5 products this was changed to be just one computer in the EULA.

As it happens I believe the store does allow the purchase of multiple products.  It didn't when Start8 was launched, but this was changed in response to customers who wished to purchase multiple copies because they had more than one PC back in late 2012 / early 2013.

Also according to web.archive.org the contents of that FAQ I linked to on the 7th December 2012 (the only time it archived that page in its entire life apparently) was :

http://web.archive.org/web/20121207043033/https://esupport.stardock.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/198/0/can-i-install-my-copy-on-more-than-one-machine

"For applications developed and/or published by Stardock, you can install your software on more than one machine, with some restrictions. 

• Only one copy of the product can be used at any given time per license.
• If you want to have it on both home and work PCs, or on a laptop and a desktop, you will need a second license
• Business users must purchase another license.

For more detail, see the EULA at https://www.stardock.com/support/software_eula.aspx"

While it does talk about more than one machine, it also says you need a second license to install on both home and work pcs, or on a laptop and a desktop.  This is because clearly someone missed the top line.  But as our activation is permitting more than one install on a computer with some restrictions (as in a limit to that number) it would seem to be in compliance with it.  It also links to the EULA which is very clear indeed.

I am fairly certain that when I bought Start8 I read the same text that DonRay posted above. I follow the rules and I remember thinking this was good. It also sounded friendly, and I felt friendly back!

Unless you have an archive of old versions of the FAQs, it is not possible to prove it one way or the other.

A question please. Does any version of the product "phone home" after it has activated successfully? Some other postings imply that it does, what are the facts please. (There are worrying implications if it does - what happens if offline/activation server malfunctions/Stardock goes bust etc.)

The language I quoted from the October 2012 FAQ was in place and in effect at the time I purchased the software, along with the leberal Activation Policy.  It did not instruct that a 2nd license was required.  That's how it's operated for two years.  The December 2012 language you cite is different.  Until now, I've not had a problem running Start8 according to the terms Stardock had in place when I purchased the software.  I'd not been made aware of any change, or had reason to revisit Stardock's policies, or website for that purpose.

Neil, you’re the face of Stardock and you need to empathize with customers in this situation.  I’m not alone feeling victimized when software I own is taken without notice or opportunity to prevent it.  Made worse because Start8 functions as crutches for navigating Windows 8.  To suddenly have your crutches yanked away is discombobulating and upsetting.

Stardock has done a disservice to a number of its customers, yet unrepentantly accuses its customers of being the violator.  Being a tad more humble and contrite will serve Stardock's interests much better.

Um.. you probably should have told your CEO if we weren't allowed to install it on multiple PCs: https://twitter.com/draginol/status/254390217967026177

You will notice he was replying to the question which asked about a laptop and a desktop.  Which again is two.  The software should be allowing you to install on both.  And yes it does appear he was unaware of the EULA terms which were in Start8.

I cannot answer the other questions from others about the specifics of how activation works as I did not write it.  Questions like that would have to be sent to support who may have the answers.

As an objective outsider to this conversation, I must point out that your statement that, "You will notice he was replying to the question which asked about a laptop and a desktop" is rather disingenuous.  His actual statement was very consistent with the broadly understood expectation of 1-license-per-user:  "You just need 1 license for all the machines you personally use."

This was, indeed, the expectation generally stated in multiple forums at the time.  Your marketing folks may have had some idea *in their minds* that for personal use only 2 machines were intended, but that is NOT what was conveyed.

Oh grow up. The thing costs 5 bucks. Even less if you can get a combo deal. Get over it.

It doesn't matter for me because I only use it on my home and work machine (2) but when I bought the subscriber pack for start8 etc I read the FAQs at the time and I quite clearly remember it being 1 license for all devices so long as only 1 device was in use at a time and I was the only person using it (bit of a trust based policy I guess). 

So I can see why people would be upset that it's not been cut down (I did actually have a laptop that I was also using it on a year or two ago which would have put me at 3 and I'd be raging about the change too if I still required it). After reading Neils replies I get the feeling he's just stubbornly in denial (perhaps by instruction) but clearly the policy in effect when many people purchased the software was as many devices so long as they're for one user and only one in use at a time, it was a damn good policy to have and it was actually one of the key elements that made me feel compelled to buy the software rather than pirate it. 

Anyway just my thoughts on the matter, I think Stardock should consider adjusting their policy to allow for as many devices again, considering you have to use your login for the software I'm sure they could easily tell if someone has just handed it out to multiple people, plus putting some trust / faith in the end user to do the right thing is good for the company image! Nothing worse than DRM and imo it's the leading cause of piracy. Example: My Vista install once de-activated and wouldn't let me activate / log in to my machine, Microsoft support basically told me to get stuffed and re-install the OS. So I told the guy on the phone to get stuffed and that I'll pirate the shit out of their OS from here on out and distribute it to friends and guess what! Haven't paid for a copy of Windows since and haven't had any activation issues since!

anyway end rant sorry guys lol

i'll just throw in my two cents here: i was unaware of the 'install on all of your PCs' licensing, I always assumed it was one license per machine, so I bought 3 Start8 licenses. That said, for a tech enthusiast (seems to me by far the most likely person buying your products), 5 PCs doesn't seem unreasonable. I have two PCs running Win 8.1.1, a Win7 PC, and two Macs (iMac & MBP) each running VMware Fusion with a Win 8.1.1 instance. There's 5 right there being used solely by me, assuming I ever upgraded the Win7 one. No kids, only a girlfriend who is an Apple snob and won't use Windows except at her job.

I work from home so I have a big 'cockpit' with these PCs lined up, and it makes me more productive.