Planet Management Suggestion

Cancel? existing improvements

Change the word "Cancel" (below the list of available projects) to "Remove", "Delete", or "Destroy" when you select an already built improvement.  This would help players find how they are supposed to remove existing items on the planet.  Moving the button may also make sense since it has nothing to do with building improvements.

 

Also ask to confirm the removal of the existing improvement.  Some of these improvements take a long time to build after all... =D

26,389 views 8 replies
Reply #1 Top

Oky doky.

Reply #2 Top

Beta adds per-planet Approval bonuses.  To a micromanager like me, this is just one more step in the descent into click-hell.

I detest losing any excess production.  I abhor knowing that the AI doesn't lose excess production.  So I try to optimize every planet, every turn, to exactly finish one thing that's "completable", with as close to zero waste.

The UI provides zero support for this.  You must perform binary-search down to 1-pixel increments, constantly checking whether you crossed a threshold.  e.g. click, Done, Technology => still 2 turns?  Done, Govern, click.  That's 1 lap.  Repeat until convergence.

Some basic improvements:

1. Instant update, manuf queue.  When I click Manage, Govern, and click in the wheel, I want to see all of the Manage window's "turns to complete" update instantly.  (Currently, you must click Done (exit Govern), "<" (to switch planet), ">" (to switch back) just to force the planet's manuf queue to redisplay.)

2. Instant update, tech bar.  Similarly, Govern + clicks can't tell you when you cross a Tech turns-until-done threshold, because you must exit the Govern window and click Technology, Tech Tree to force it to recompute.  (The upper-right Technology bar, and the Technology screen, cache the previous turns-until-done result, and don't update with new research settings until you drill down to the Tech Tree page to actually force it to show you how much total tech you're spending.)  Better: Add "turns until done" in the upper-right tech bar itself, and update it on every single Govern click, as needed.

3. Randomly, a queue (manuf, starport/shipyard, or tech) tells me "1 turn to complete", and then next turn ... it's still not done.  But you can rush it for 0 bc and 0.1 additional work.  So the game engine just robs 1 queue-turn from you.  Is this a game feature, or just a roundoff error?  Assure me that the AIs are suffering from exactly the same frequency of lost queue-turns of production, and I won't grumble as much.  Improvement: Ensure that this never happens.

 

Some grandiose suggestions:

4. Isolines.  Lock one of the 3 axes (mp, rp, or bc) to a fixed value, which establishes a Constraint.  Thereafter, mouse clicks / drags in the wheel satisfy that constraint (and vary the other 2 axes).  This would simplify the dreaded 3-axis click hell.  (It's actually a circular arc, as any geometer with a compass + straight edge knows.)

5. Solver.  Suppose my planet is "1 turn completable" for its current manuf queue item.  Next to it, a padlock icon appears.  I click that padlock, and its mps to ensure 1-turn completion (which shall overcome #3 above) is auto-calculated, and appears in the production wheel as an isoline.  Then I can click that isoline in the wheel to toggle its constraint On or Off.  When Off, it's ignored.  When On, it behaves as #4.  This would replace click-hell to hunt for the correct setting with two clicks + 1 drag.

6. Multi-planet solver.  As above, but generalized to multiple planets, e.g. all planets feeding 1 shipyard, or all planets doing research.

7. Stack of wheels.  An alternative visual idiom (GC4, maybe :) would be: multiple wheels, stacked like a Tower of Hanoi.  Suppose you want to lock 13.1 mp to something.  It locks and becomes a pizza crust, labeled "13.1 mp".  All the rest of your production capability becomes a 2nd smaller wheel floating "above" it, like a giant pepperoni.  You can click around the 2nd tier wheel exactly the same way we do now, and it distributes only the remainder of your capability.

8. Buoy.  The Beta planetary approval bonuses muck this up even further ... which suggest even better UI tools.  Note that bonus thresholds are sharp and steep, e.g. 85.2% = +10% growth/prod/"influance" (haha -- it is a Beta), but 85.3% = +25%.  One pixel can be +/- 15% difference!!  In early game, the only approval-mods are: + for wealth, - for population.  But as your population grows, you need proportionally more devoted to wealth to maintain "constant approval" (and stay at the lower bound for whatever tier of bonus you're targeting).  Equivalently: without any adjustments, your approval bonus tier will staircase downward.  What UI could let you auto-pilot that away?  Whimsical (this may blow your poor designers' minds): visualize approval as a histogram (3D surface) over a 2D space.  (Then it would literally be a 3D staircase, right?)  So depict "approval setting" as a buoy, which you set to "float" at a fixed value, e.g. 85.x% (to get the +25% bonus).  Thereafter, as your pop + maintenance grow, your wealth setting automatically rises by just enough to maintain that approval rating.

 

I accept that I am an atypical GC2/GC3 player, and not many players would bother with these things.  From watching the Dev Streams, I see Paul clicking Turn about once every 20 seconds(!!!), which means he's just bleeding away ~5% or so of his empire's total production (if we estimate that each queue roughly finishes 1 item every 10 turns, and on average wastes 0.5 turn of production on each turn-of-completion).  I don't have that reflex yet.  So I'll agitate for UI tools to make it unnecessary.

As a fringe benefit, these UI tools would look elegant, and convey informed control with power at fingertips.  That's not a coincidence: compact representations of critical information are elegant, because it takes cleverness to compress them down.

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Reply #3 Top

Quoting Gilmoy, reply 2

I detest losing any excess production. 

Right now approval only effects growth and influence. I have planets with 0% approval and the tool-tip says I have a 0% production penalty.

Reply #4 Top

Some experiments and number-geeking reveals that production multiplies all 3 axes, but for next turn.  Beta UI flaw: this is not shown in any tooltip list, and it happens before it computes the "raw research/wealth" tooltip scores.  So your "raw research" is really your

  • pop * [research axis %] * (1 + previous turn's approval production bonus)

Proof sketch 1: Just add up all of your "raw" weights.  Your sum will be >= your planet's actual pop.

Proof sketch 2: Start new game.  Set homeworld to 100% research (which reduces next turn's approval bonus to ~10%).  Note your rps.  Click "Turn".  Your rps plummet (and thereafter plateau).  That's your homeworld dropping from its "start of game" approval bonus of +50% or +40% to your turn-1 bonus of only +10%.  Maybe you can click Turn several more times and see another staircase-down drop as your pop growth causes your approval bonus tier to drop from +10% to =0%.

So I think "production" is huge.  It's way better now to set your economy to ~10% wealth if it "buys" you a +25% approval bonus to production, because next turn your 90% non-wealth will act just like 112.5%.

Corollary 1: Benevolence's +10% Approval at tier 1 is a Big Deal.  That's way better than Pragmatism's +10% Research, because it means you can just run all of your planets at a harsher pace, and still earn a higher tier of approval bonus to compensate for it.

Corollary 2: Approval improvements, and tile bonuses to Approval, confer the same benefit for one planet at a time.

Corollary 3: It's true that your 0% approval planet is getting zero penalty, compared to an Alpha 0.31 economy.  But it's still falling behind the other Beta economies.  (You might still be beating the Beta AI economies ... for what that's worth).

Reply #5 Top

Yeah, didn't realize that 100% approval grants +50% production, that changes things.

Reply #7 Top

Great job Gilmoy. I am struggling to keep approval up as well and at 100% you get that boost which is big deal actually. 

Reply #8 Top

At some point (which you can easily calculate w/algebra), it's not "worth it" to chase the 50% bonus.  You could increase your total mp/rp output by dropping down to a lower bonus tier (but you do lose the difference in growth bonuses).  Flipping that around, you could "pay" a fraction of your max possible mp/rp for the less-tangible benefits of growth and some bc.

Example: Suppose you split mp/rp equally, i.e. you slide along the x=0 axis (vertical centerline) of the wheel.  Then your wealth % determines your approval bonus tier.  Let w.x% denote your wealth axis %, and A+y% your approval bonus % (N.B. not approval % itself).  Let's ignore growth next turn, so that we can equate this turn's w.% to next turn's mp+rp %.  Consider the following choices for a single turn:

  • w.30% = A+50% => mp+rp (70% * 1.50) = 105%      and bc 30% * 1.50 = 45% (yes, it adds up to 150%)
  • w.22% = A+40% => mp+rp (78% * 1.40) = 109.2%   and bc 22% * 1.40 = 30.8%
  • w.12% = A+25% => mp+rp (88% * 1.25) = 110%      and bc 12% * 1.25 = 15%
  • w.02% = A+10% => mp+rp (98% * 1.10) = 107.8%    and bc  2% * 1.10 =   2.2%

If you want to strictly maximize mp+rp without regard to the intangibles, you'd deliberately drop down to the +25% bonus tier (which is at approval 85%).  But then you also get only the +25% bonus to growth.

Equivalently (but from the other pov), you could "pay" a mild tax of 0.8% of mp+rp to slide up to the +40% bonus tier.  Recalibrating to a base of "110%", this means you sacrifice (or pay) 0.73% of your output for +15% growth(!!!) and double wealth.  For an early-game homeworld, 0.73% of your ~12.0 pop output is a paltry 0.1 mp :)  So ... would you pay -0.1 mp to earn +0.2 bc and free use of a Colonial Hospital?  hehe ... we loves Beta

At w.50%, it's probably getting to be not worth it.  Then your mp+rp is only (40% * 1.5) = 60%.  Conversely, if you have a breedworld that's feeding colony/transport ships, you might not care two hoots about its production, and you'll pay anything to get the +50% growth.

Bizarre: I have no idea how the "approval for growth" gambit compares to the "birthing subsidies" gambit.