Love, sex, marriage, and relationship observations

Some things I've seen in what matters in early adulthood

Through life we all have experienced, to varying degrees, how high ideals don't survive the encounter with real life. To put it another way, life is unfair and despite noble sentiments otherwise, some things are true even if they shouldn't be true.  I've always been a very social person and one to talk to people about all kinds of things (which shouldn't be surprising since I started a blog site).  I've been running BBSes, bulletin boards, forums, chat channels, you name it for the past 17 years straight.  Like many of you, I'm just really interested in people. What they think. What they do. And why.

So here is a list of things I've found to be true about people that are arguably not fair but nonetheless are generally true. In some cases, I feel the same way as the "norm", in others, I don't.

1) Women who have many sexual partners are "sluts". Men who do are "studs". It's not fair but it is true.  Personally I think it awful (at least in the sense that guys should not take pride in how easy they are either). But like it or not it's something we have to deal with. But at the same time, men are still generally compared by their earning potential. That's not fair either. Reading through the various blogs it's pretty apparent that many women are operating on the belief of how life should be rather than how it actually is. Be careful who you share yourself with. Put thought into it. Try to think ahead.  When you're a teenager or young adult it is difficult to realize that you still have your whole life ahead of you and that the teen years will be relatively unimportant compared to the rest of your life. But the decisions you make then can still have long lasting damage. Girls/women who are "easy" decrease the pool of "good" men that they will later have access to or will create significant problems for themselves later in life. 

One night stands and general promiscuousness may not seem to do harm at the time but from what I've seen over the years, it comes back to haunt women much more than men.  Men get off the hook on this kind of behavior for some reason but women are permanently marked as being "slutty".  But like I said, at the same time, it's pretty apparent whether people like to admit it or not that women are much more attracted to men who seem to be financially well off.  There have been many studies over the years demonstrating that when it comes to love, women are the ones who are much more practical and men much more emotional. Pretty ironic eh?

2) Being on time matters. When it comes to first impressions of any kind, being punctual really is a big deal in the United States (and UK). In other societies it doesn't matter as much. Generally speaking, you can't go wrong by simply making your appointment, meeting, date, whatever on time.  This is regularly understated as someone being "casual" about their appointments but in terms of success, particularly in business, punctuality matters a great deal.

3) Tell the truth. Both men and women regularly fall into the belief that it is easier to tell someone what they think they want to hear rather than the whole truth. Eventually the truth will slip out. Obviously it's easier to just not do things that you are ashamed of to the point that you need to be dishonest about them to your friend, boss, co-worker, spouse, significant other, etc.  But most people at times do do things they are ashamed of and honesty really is the best policy. Take the short term pain of telling the truth. Because if the issue is significant, it will come out and the longer that truth has been hidden (or longer the lie has been perpetuated) the more damning it will be.

4) Listening matters. If you find yourself doing most of the talking (/me looks down at the floor embarrassed) then you should probably put some effort into becoming a listener. This is particularly true if you are a man. Men of few words are almost always considered more attractive and more commanding of respect.  Don't confuse shyness with being a listener. They aren't the same. Someone who makes eye contact and is clearly self confident but has chosen to listen to your words carefully is going to gain the respect of others much more completely and faster than the person who just seems to talk to hear their own voice.  (of course, knowing this and being able to act on this knowledge are two different things...)

5) High school sucks for most people. People who say that those years are the best years of their lives should be flogged or pitied. One or the other. I thought I was the only one who hated high school and felt terrible being told that these were the glory days and I should be enjoying them. But as I got out into the world and talked to others it became clear that most people I talked to hated high school. The challenge is getting through it without doing any long term damage to your future. 15 to 21 year olds should just say to themselves "none of this will matter much in 10 years, I'll just do the best I can."

6) First loves are probably not true loves. The problem with being a teen or young adult is a lack of perspective. You have nothing to compare your experiences to. Hence many young adults make the mistake of over-committing to their "first loves". What they feel is new and stronger than anything they've felt before. Very true too. But it's all relative isn't it?  My "first love" was in early high school and I was certain that it was "real love". But there is little that can compare to the quiet intimacy of sitting on the couch watching a favorite show or movie or whatever knowing that you've been with him or her for a decade and know everything about them while your children play in the background. And even then, there are probably greater levels of intimacy than that that I simply don't know of yet because I'm still young too. 

7) More than intelligence, more than ambition, self-discipline is the key to success. And for those warm fuzzy people who try to define success out of existence, I mean success in the sense of having accomplished concrete goals. Success doesn't have to mean money, though money in our capitalist society often goes hand in hand with any kind of significant accomplishment, success has to do with having goals and making those goals a reality.  With success comes self-esteem and often happiness and joy and contentment. And often times getting to a goal simply is a matter of finishing it. Most things aren't fun to do all the time but sticking with them ad finishing those things is what self-discipline is all about.  My own success and wealth boils down to this - I am not a great programmer but I had one trait that most other developers working purely on their own don't have -- the discipline to actually finish what I started.   Self-discipline can be applied to almost any endeavor.

8) Recognize that men and women are different.  Duh right? Yet we live in a society that increasingly tries to blur that distinction.  Men want to provide solutions. Women want to provide understanding. Single men are driven to try to "conquer" as many women as possible. The men who don't are either unable or are mentally strong enough to fight those urges (either from a sense of personal conviction or from a moral point of view). Less scrupulous men have figured out what women want to hear: Women like being made to feel special. Since most men are clueless about this, the guys who have figured out this magical secret can ruthlessly exploit it.  Ask a girl who has been with guys (often a lot of them) why she did what she did and she'll say "They made me feel special". That doesn't mean women should be thinking every bouquet of flowers or serenade or poem or whatever is some ploy to get them in the sack, but remember this - being made to feel special isn't about individual deeds. Being made to feel special comes from the day to day treatment. If the guy you are with treats you poorly on a day to day basis but you find yourself forgiving him because of individual deeds of valor, beware!

On the other hand, where women are guilty of degrading themselves into being "sleazy" due to having their self-esteem manipulated, guys are more guilty for going off and marrying the first girl they date. I suspect many reading this have seen this. Guy meets girl. Girl is kind of nasty. Girl gets guy to quit seeing his friends and isolates him. Girl and guy get married and you never hear from the guy again. Guys - beware of girls who try to isolate you from your "Support network".  While more common for girls to do this with guys, it happens to women as well and in those cases it can be outright dangerous.  Men may not try to isolate their wives/girl friends from their support network as often but when they do, they are often in the case of abusive men.

So either way - the right person for you is going to access your friends and family for who they are. And if they can't, then you're probably not right for each other.

So there are 8 observations I've made.  Maybe you totally disagree with them. But they are things I have found to be true even if I wish they weren't or in many cases strongly disagree with them.

 

33,544 views 100 replies
Reply #1 Top
Most of what you say is true. but what I've also seen is people who turn all these things around. Early success is almost as damaging as early failure. As to women want to provide understanding and men solutions, this is true but by middle age, roles can reverse. Couples that stay together for years can reverse roles in later years. The wife can put all her energy into work and the husband into family. Listening may be natural for some people, but all can learn how to listen. Counseling departments teach active listening--it works.
Reply #2 Top
I for the most part agree with what you say.I would be the quiet listener.I don't get respect for it.Probally because they don't know me well enough.I often get told I'm stuck up,or act too good.but I'm give them full attention,and speak to them when I'm spoken to.I often wonder why they bother talking to me in the first place.I do know that people,like my co-workers,are dying to know what I do when I go home.The fact is my life is so messed up that I don't want to talk about it.The career I chose doesnt fit my quiet nature.I'm a nurse,in a nursing home, so I spend alot of time talking,and listening to the residents.It's rewarding in a strange sense,to pretend to be who some of the residents want me to be.Most have a illness that affects them mentally like Alzheimers,so I often get confused with being their son,or grandson.My co-workers see this ,and wonder why at lunch,I aint there talking with them because they know I can speak.So thats probally the reason they think I'm stuck up.It often gets rumours started,and I get sick of it.The latest one is that I'm gay.It doesnt help that I'm one of the few men that work there.Oh well..I'm a different beast with my love interests.Though I do agree that it will get you further in a relationship with a woman,if you listen to her,and not think about yourself during times shes talking to you..But with my co-workers or people in general,its a pain in the ass.
Reply #3 Top
i agree with some of what of what u are saying... i myself loved highschool, i had many great friendships, and an active social life.... #8,,,,,,, u go on about isolation of the male species..... io abso lutely agree with u, ive watched it happen, and even to a certain extent done it myself, what i would like to know is why do men propose to their women as a last ditch attempt to save there relationships?????? i know men think differently, and i would like to hear a mans opinion......

kim[

Reply #4 Top
what i would like to know is why do men propose to their women as a last ditch attempt to save there relationships??????


I really don't know as I am guilty of that myself. The thinking at the time was, "Well maybe if we're engaged she'll start treating me better." Of course, that didn't work and we broke up soon after. I've seen many cases of it and it's common enough that The Simpsons actually made fun of that sort of thing "Maybe when we get married she's bound to settle down and respect me!"
Reply #5 Top
In the old days when promiscuity was remote; engagement was the only way a guy even had the chance to neck longer than a few minutes at the front door [and the light on].
Reply #7 Top
What I want to know is why the hell if you treat a woman as a gentleman, with respect, courtesy and kindness, they never seem to be attracted to you as a mate. You always get the dreaded "I'm only interested in you as a friend", thing. Treat them like crap, ignore them, and you can't run them off with a stick.
Reply #8 Top

Women are instinctively attracted to strength and power.  Men are attracted to youth and beauty.  There are lots of theories as to why this is.

It's not that women are attracted to jerks. It's that when you are younger, jerks tend to be the ones who are self confident and come across as strong.

Reply #9 Top
I'm older now, married 8 years, and maybe divorcing soon. I can tell the men out there that I didn't marry my husband for money, I married him for looks and he was great in bed. Well, nothing's changed. He married me for security (I had money and he didn't), and I'm not sure why else. Anyway, I wanted healthy, attractive kids. Now that I have them, (of course, I'm not ugly either and have no problem getting male attention) there isn't much reason for us to stay together. Now we just both feel used by the other.

Should I dump him and look for a loving relationship, or stay and hope one develops?
Reply #10 Top
It sounds like you went into this for all the wrong reasons. You both seem to have gone in for the trophy spouse, looking for the status and benefits associated with being married (security, sex, kids etc...) rather than the emotional attachment. Marrying for money is just as bad as marrying for any of the other simplistic reasons you listed, since you didn't do it out of genuine caring for your husband (or he for you). I think you two have done your kids more of a disservice than you have yourselves.
Reply #11 Top
My gosh... that's very shallow. But in spite of all that stick through it. Statistics (don't we all love them?) say that in 5 years you'll be happy you did. Get over your immaturity and superficiality and realize that you made a vow, for better or worse, rich or poor, not "when sex is good, money is flowing, and we're both still goodlooking" Good grief! Go to counciling and try and make it work... Love, true love, is not cicumstantial, if you know what I mean. Think about what you'ld be putting your kids through. You both feel used by the other because you were. Get over that and did deeper! Start over, make it work for the sakes of yourselves and your children
Reply #12 Top
There is a lot to be said for the European approach of staying married and simply having a mistress / lover.

EVERYONE stays happy then
Reply #13 Top
there is an actual mathematical formula that they think can calculate actual odds for marriages heh the website is:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4253709/

Brad the things that you are naming to me seem like common sense now a days, its a little disconcerning that things are the way they are but its just reality... as far as relationships go, with my own experiences I don't think that anyone should get married before the age of 25 this should be a law and it should be enforced. Everyone could still have relationships just not marriage then the divorce rate would ofcourse drop. I mean people are entitled to make emotional decisions but I think everyone would be better off and have less emotional pain if they did it after the age of 25... Although it is sweet to think of marrying your school sweetheart its also very risky because people change over time.

TUKKERBEAR you are the epitome of what is wrong with people... so lets get this straight you married this guy for a superficial reason and thought that your main purpose was to have kids with him and then what?? So now the kids have to deal with the destructive process of divorce or separation... so your whole plan was to have kids so you can screw up their lives?? that is basically what your saying... why didn't you just use him for donor insemination and then find someone you can love... the sad part is that these kids are already born and if developmental psychology is right the process for them to have problems in the future with relationships and adherence to authority has already begun.... oh what a shame
Reply #14 Top
BigDreamer - I emphatically agree with you that love is not circumstantial, similar to what Brad referred to in point #8 about not falling for one grande and admirable "act of love," but what is the consistant day to day actions tell you? "Falling in lust" would be much more fitting for what most believe is "falling in love." A small but powerful thruth that I want to add is this:

Love is not a feeling.

Difficult to accept. Love creates very strong feelings, but love itself, is not one. Therefore the cheesy and selfish excuse accepted by many counselors "I just don't love her anymore!", or "I am just numb. I don't FEEL for him anymore." are void. You don't fall out of love--you stop loving a person. How? When your love goes from unconditional/no strings attatched, to conditional. In other languages, I think it's Hebrew is the best example, it is much clearer because there is a different word for thedifferent types of love. When there are grudges or betterness or resentment, that's attatching a string. There is a lot to be said on that topic alone. But I guess it is pretty darn simple.
Reply #15 Top
I don't think that anyone should get married before the age of 25


though it would freak some people out, I agree completely with you on that Psychx. I personally am beginning to think it true what I once heard: When a boy turns 16, God comes down and removes his brain. Then when he turns 30 he finally puts it back again.
I'll be on my knees tonight, "Lord, please...seriously, I'm begging you, can you make an exception on that policy for me? Really, is that realistic God? 10 more years?!"

Reply #16 Top
One man, I completely agree with your previous post above! I think the age of marriage should be saved for another thread, as it is another topic enirely, Anywho, lust is a perfect word for what people think of as "Falling in love" these days. Something to add to it below; the epitome of what love should look like.

"1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[2] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking,it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." 1 Corinthians 13
Reply #18 Top
Brad, that is a great article!

Thanks.
Reply #19 Top
Ok, wait a minute. I am not the epitome of what's wrong in Love American Style. I married for the right reasons, children. I wanted to do the best thing for my future kids by giving them a healthy, good-looking headstart --- and it worked. My children are admired everywhere we go. They will have an easier life than most. Since they are intelligent and I can afford to send both of them to University, they will probably end up being great contributors to society.

Since I'm assuming (by grammer usage) that only educated people use this website, then I highly doubt you would have advocated that I got pregnant any other way than by clear, well-planned choice. You should be praising me for having the "community" responsibility for making sure my kids would not be deliquent, unwanted, welfare children. As for the love I seek, you don't need good DNA to be a charming man that women want to be with.
Reply #20 Top
You still married for the wrong reasons, rather simplistic ones at that. I don't care how good looking or smart a kid is, if they do not grow up in a loving, caring household then they're at a disadvantage later in life. You looked at marraige as a means to an (rather selfish) end and picked a partner not based on emotion and respect but on genetics and probabilities. I would honestly rather have ugly people in the world who are capable of loving another human being, people who don't look at who to marry based on nose structure, IQ and body mass. You should be able to love and be proud of your kids even if they aren't beautiful people, even if they aren't at the head of their class, even if they do nothing more than to go on to become a bank teller at the local bank. What they look like and what they achieve should be immaterial to you. Yes it's good to provide advantages to them (i.e a college education should they want one). But basing their existance on it is just wrong.

Also, we're not advocating for you to have had kids outside of marraige, what we mostly are talking about is that you should have waited to have kids with someone you truely loved, because believe it or not, your children do know the difference, and they'll eventually learn the whole truth of the matter (at least they should... you owe them that much) anyway.

I'm the product of two very smart, but rather average looking, parents. I myself am nothing special to look at, nor am I a budding genius, and I doubt that I will go on in life to be a great contributor to society. But I will be a valuble functioning member. My parents did right by me not through selective breeding, but by giving me a loving home, and actually instilling values and morals. I have a degree from a well-recognized University, I worked hard to get where I am. I wasn't given a head-start, I was merely given the knowledge that I could do it if I worked for it.

Children are NOT the reason to get married. Love is the reason to get married... children are how you share that love with the world around you and future generations.
Reply #21 Top
You, tukkerbear (Anonymous User), wrote: I married him for looks and he was great in bed.

and then you also said
I married for the right reasons, children. I wanted to do the best thing for my future kids by giving them a healthy, good-looking headstart --- and it worked. My children are admired everywhere we go.

that is very, very shallow. Do you really want your children to be admired because of their good looks? I am assuming that you don't have children who have physical deformaties. I'm happy God didn't decide to put children like that in your family... because if all you see is skin deep you're going to be a very unhappy person. Look at your marriage and how superficial it is. Give me a break! Admitting you were wrong is hard, but it's the first step in change.


Reply #22 Top
This will be my last post because it's obvious that this is some right, wing techie forum; which explains all the truth distortions on this page. Women don't marry for money, except for Anna Nicole Smith. Most women (not in the sex business) marry a man because he makes he turns her on, also, she admires him in very personal ways. He can bring something to the relationship that she doen't have by herself. All the money and self-discipline in the world won't help you if you can't get your woman off.

My tall, attractive brother was chased by women for his looks, not money. But if you think that all women want is money then just keep fooling yourself. Perhaps this is why "compassionate" Republicans try so hard to rip off the rest of the Country. Maybe if they weren't so pale, pudgy and decrepit they wouldn't need all the money to pay for sex.

I may have used my husband for something and he may have used me, but that was acceptable at the time....and has been okay for a long time. Now we don't need to use each other anymore and we need to find out if we have any more reasons to stay together. Either way, my kids will be loved and cared for better than most kids.

And for you fools that want to criticise me, I suggest you determine whether you've ever had any 8-year long relationships. Maybe if you haven't, then the answer "why not" might be found in your uninsightful replies. One last thing........ John Kerry in 2004!
Reply #23 Top
So, you go along with whatever is acceptable at the moment? Do you let the worlds standards become your own? It's kind of like this; sure, you married each other for selfish reasons, and you say now you don't need to use one another anymore, but the thing is you said "for better or for worse, rich or poor" right? Were your intentions to spend your life with this man until the day you die? That really is beside the point because the truth is you married him, and marriage is forever. That's what the vows were for; you did have vows, didn't you?

I don't want to judge you, because I'm by no means perfect, but I figured I should post my opinion. I didn't mean you badger you, it's just society as a whole thinks the way you do, and it pisses me off.

Fools? I'm not sure how mature name calling is, but maybe you should take a look at your own life before you go calling us fools. And no, I haven't had any 8 year long relationships, because I'm 16, but when I get married it will be for good, for life, forever... and I suppose that doesn't mean much because right now it's all talk, but if I could let you know, when I'm 70, that I'm still married, I would.

Well, it was nice conversing with you. I wish you well, whatever you choose to do. Here's some food for thought (why do people say that anyway?) ;has superficiality ever made one happy, truly happy? It may seem great at the moment, good looks, what makes one feel good, but in the end it will all go down the drain. Dig deeper. I do not expect to hear from you, and maybe you won't read this, but I wish you well all the same. :o)
Reply #24 Top
your right turker im sorry for assuming the worst, so your saying you didn't marry for superficial reasons and you didn't put your future children at risk by going into a relationship that might have been unhealthy full of arguments and possible separation. You obviously married for the completely right reasons. Or did I misinterpret when you stated you married for looks and because he was great in bed? Tell that to your kids when they come home because they are going through divorce themselves. It is all relative tukkerbear if you live long enough maybe some day you will realize that. Even from the little that you stated of your background I can tell that the problem with you is deeper rooted than something you could have done to yourself. The morals and priorites that where instilled to you don't seem to be the right ones and possibly stem from your early childhood relationship with your parents. The way you describe looking at your brother with all those women makes you sound like you figured "hey if thats what a guy should be like then thats what I should look for" which can stem from the fact that you had and estranged relationship with your own father and that is where this all would trace back to. From your poor decision to marry a man that you had no real connection to to raising your kids around a very superficial relationship between you and your husband. I can tell that you weren't close to your father or thats how him and your mother were to each other. the problem with that is that your kids will have the same morals as you its a vicious cycle psychologists know these patterns I can bet with an 80% accuracy that I just described your whole life

As far as my age 25 for marriage thing it is not one that would be popular but it would be effective. I just don't think anyone has the maturity to make the decision of who you will be with for the rest of your life when you are lets say 20 yrs old. People could still be together but no marriage till atleast 24 well say this time because 25 its mid 20s and its a little too old so people will have 6 years after turning 18 to mature go to college and find themselves till they are eligible for marriage...these are my thoughts... sorry if I offend anyone except for tukker
Reply #25 Top
Hmmm.....'my children are admired everywhere we go '. That's nice. And you said you're not shallow or materialistic?

You say you married because he looked good and was good in bed? Those are attributes that are, I'm sure, exceedingly important in your reality.

Fortunately the rest of us 'right wing techies' have a different take on what's real and what's not, what's shallow and superficial. While it seems that you are sure you married for the right reasons, the rest of us think that you did not.

I myself have a 10+ year relationship on the go. We didn't marry because we thought we'd make pretty children that would be admired everywhere we went, not did we marry soley because we though the other looked good and was a good lay (although those attributes happened to be so). We married because we were best friends (and still are best friends) and because we loved each other.

Brad, I liked you article.