Frogboy Frogboy

My victims, welcome!

My victims, welcome!

Old man Paxton is giving me 16 engineering hours to put into LH v1.7.  So that means AI and other C++ game mechanic stuff.  There's a few threads around here I'll be mining.  But suffice to say, I plan to do terrible terrible things to you people with the AI update.

89,660 views 38 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting Primal_Savage, reply 22

Primal_Savage

May 20, 2014 7:42:19 AM from  Elemental Forums
Quoting DsRaider, reply 20
I would leave consume alone. An AI could really screw themselves over with that.
 

As long as ValueCalcWrapper for Strategic Spells gets activated, it shouldn't be a problem. Plus, I'd rather they activate the possibility of doing something even if it needs to be disabled through some other means (e.g. AIPriority=0).

 

Oh my bad I actually meant Corruption (not Consume).  But yeah ideally it would use both depending on AIPriority... that's the real point, would be good for the AI to use all the terrain target spells.

 

Reply #27 Top

Quoting abob101, reply 26
Oh my bad I actually meant Corruption (not Consume). But yeah ideally it would use both depending on AIPriority... that's the real point, would be good for the AI to use all the terrain target spells.

For those two spells I don't think AI priority would cut it. You would need some IsWorthy calculations. Since they both target friendly shards I imagine getting one to work would fix the other as well, although they use slightly different targets. Both could only be cast on shards you already have doubles of and Corruption could also only be cast when you have very low Mana. I really want to see Arcane Monolith more though. I remember testing out that spell when they first added it and being very disappointed that the AI couldn't use it. Seeing enemy Arcane Monoliths floating around would be really cool.

Reply #28 Top

will he be granted 16 hours to bug fix the ai update if needed?

Reply #30 Top

I look forward to some changes on things. I do hope that the auto-resolve and tactical combat will produce closer results to each other ;)

Reply #31 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 23

I am also thinking of changing some game rules (with Derek's permission) to make combat a bit. Ore interesting. Will talk. Ore shortly on this.

Missing M key?

Reply #32 Top

I think it is a subtle hint on things... but he is not allowed to say. ;)

Reply #33 Top


Love you Stardockians for focusing on the AI!

Reply #34 Top

Frogboy, I warn you that you're getting our hopes up, especially for vets who dream that the FE factions will someday act in varied, clever ways like the GalCiv2 factions did.  So much of the challenge and enjoyment comes from how the AI uses the resources it's given.  Squandering them = endgame letdown, whereas using clever tactics = endgame hustle/reaction strategy.

For example, I think Tarth ought to use lots of guerrilla tactics (which matches their backstory and racial trait concerning army size).  When going to war, they could be quicker to react with smaller units in a spread (sending hit squads after outposts, harassing caravans, pioneers, or single units in transit).  They would best understand that a great defense is quick strikes/infiltration that make the enemy play defense (or lose valuable resources, and even poorly defended backfield cities--why not have units skip over front-line cities to target a soft backfield using their superior ability to move over tough terrain?).  To combat the whole steamrolling that players often do, rather than have them beat their heads against a superior force, have them circle around behind to recover outposts and cities as soon as the larger army has moved on.  

Behavior like this forces the player to make careful tactical choices, and this...this is at the heart of great gameplay, ala GalCiv2.  I remember carefully choosing/developing colonies and handling diplomacy, because it all mattered, not because it was simply a function of the game.  If you can create this level of challenge in the more complex environment of FE, the world (at least our small corner of it) will laud you.

Reply #35 Top

Quoting Gorde, reply 34

Frogboy, I warn you that you're getting our hopes up, especially for vets who dream that the FE factions will someday act in varied, clever ways like the GalCiv2 factions did.  So much of the challenge and enjoyment comes from how the AI uses the resources it's given.  Squandering them = endgame letdown, whereas using clever tactics = endgame hustle/reaction strategy.

For example, I think Tarth ought to use lots of guerrilla tactics (which matches their backstory and racial trait concerning army size).  When going to war, they could be quicker to react with smaller units in a spread (sending hit squads after outposts, harassing caravans, pioneers, or single units in transit).  They would best understand that a great defense is quick strikes/infiltration that make the enemy play defense (or lose valuable resources, and even poorly defended backfield cities--why not have units skip over front-line cities to target a soft backfield using their superior ability to move over tough terrain?).  To combat the whole steamrolling that players often do, rather than have them beat their heads against a superior force, have them circle around behind to recover outposts and cities as soon as the larger army has moved on.  

Behavior like this forces the player to make careful tactical choices, and this...this is at the heart of great gameplay, ala GalCiv2.  I remember carefully choosing/developing colonies and handling diplomacy, because it all mattered, not because it was simply a function of the game.  If you can create this level of challenge in the more complex environment of FE, the world (at least our small corner of it) will laud you.

I think the best path to take is to assume what I do for 1.7 will break the game, make it suck and cause cancer to your pets.  That way, if it merely catches your computer on fire, you came out ahead.

1.7 won't do what you're looking to do with the factions. I'd have to do a full on major update (probably around 40 engineering hours) to do that.  For 1.7, I have 16 hours total.

The DLC is what pays for all this.  Each time we release a DLC, a certain % of the income goes into doing updates.

The last DLC did so well that it justified me getting 16 hours on this (which is a lot of time for me to get to spend on something specifically these days).  

Now, *my* tastes in DLC are very different from other people's tastes but I plan to do the next DLC myself to cater to people like me (basically a tactical map pack with new tactical spells to go with it).  I don't really care about sovereign leaders or new factions but I understand that I'm in the minority on that (especially given that the dead world and the leader pack are the best selling DLC). 

Reply #36 Top

Frogboy thank you for taking the time to address these areas.  I know there are things that looking back everyone can say "I wish I had done that" but as I, and most probably others, have learned that sometimes time shows you a way to do what you wanted better.  Anywho thank again for the hard work and dedication towards this great game.

Reply #37 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 35


I think the best path to take is to assume what I do for 1.7 will break the game, make it suck and cause cancer to your pets.  That way, if it merely catches your computer on fire, you came out ahead.

1.7 won't do what you're looking to do with the factions. I'd have to do a full on major update (probably around 40 engineering hours) to do that.  For 1.7, I have 16 hours total.

The DLC is what pays for all this.  Each time we release a DLC, a certain % of the income goes into doing updates.

The last DLC did so well that it justified me getting 16 hours on this (which is a lot of time for me to get to spend on something specifically these days).  

Now, *my* tastes in DLC are very different from other people's tastes but I plan to do the next DLC myself to cater to people like me (basically a tactical map pack with new tactical spells to go with it).  I don't really care about sovereign leaders or new factions but I understand that I'm in the minority on that (especially given that the dead world and the leader pack are the best selling DLC). 

I'm with you on the tactics-above-all-else mentality, of course, so at least 2 of us will love your next DLC. :grin:   IMO, new flavors are less meaningful without an attached challenge, and from seeing your earlier results, I think you are the one to convince everyone else that this is the case for them, too.  Be an evangelist!

Thanks for being honest/setting expectations.  The clever-distinctive AI is something to work toward, at least.  Forget setting computers on fire--reach beyond them and set gamers' minds on fire!  In any case, I will be trying to wait patiently in the wings, looking for the smoke.

Reply #38 Top

I would love to see the tactical system improved... new sovereigns, etc., don't interest me as I can design my own.