The Galaxy and Useless Objects

Nothing on the map should be without a use or a purpose. By not making use of that I feel like this game, and the ones before it, are lugging around dead weight for really no reason.

At least that's my opinion!

Let me explain: On the map you have an assortment of objects. Right now you mostly have planets, stars, and asteroids. Starbases are constructed later on. Right now you'll sometimes have planets spawn with absolutely nothing at all. No asteroids or planets. Othertimes they'll have only 'dead' or 'uninhabitable' worlds (what's the difference?).

I maintain the notion that you're wasting your resources with this. First of all, the colonization of uninhabitable worlds is quite possible--simply inconvenient and difficult and modifiers to productivity can reflect this. I'd like to see various sorts of uninhabitable worlds like you guys had in the past, but things outside of the previous Extreme classification. Are they simply too hot, too cold, covered in a strange flesh-eating bacteria, what's going on? You guys had this in the previous game (Extreme Colonization, something I'm sure we'll see outside of the Alpha) but the one thing I do not want to see are worlds that you can do nothing with--what about Planet Mining starbases for the things you can't otherwise think of, a technology that lets you setup planet-wide mining operations? Like a super asteroid belt.

The possiblities are endless and I think it's a shame to see, including the full build of the previous titles, worlds that are wholly without purpose. If I can think up a number of things you could do with otherwise dead worlds I'm certain you guys can too! By the looks of it you already have some thoughts on the matter since you list two kinds of unusable planets right now.

I may very well be the only one who minds, though! We'll see what people say.

One little thing to consider is this: It looks like you guys consider every three 'rings' of hexes around a star to be part of the system. Inner, Middle, and Outer. Do something with that, I think it could be cool. What if ships can get trapped in the Inner Rings of supermassive stars unless they have certain propulsion? Luring enemies into that might be kind of fun! It'd also be fun to see, as a purely aesthetic point, if worlds in the middle rings around medium sized stars (such as yellow and orange stars) be the ones most likely to be habitable, roughly mimicking the habitable zones around real stars. In the same vein you'd find cooler stars with habitable worlds in the first ring and hotter stars with habitable worlds in the outer ring.

Galactic Civilizations 2 was my kind of game hampered by dead weight and a UI that I just couldn't stand. Galactic Civlizations 3 already feels better at an intuitive level. You've got this great thing at your finger tips and I'd love to see you do a lot with it. Fill the game with character, not dead rocks you can't touch.

As an ending note I'd love to see Survey Ships do more than just trigger anomalies. The idea of doing studies on planets, exploring them more thoroughly to trigger other events, would be pretty cool. Such as stumbling on an ancient lab (research boost) or a stockpile of valuable materials (cash income) or even awakening an ancient, dead, but super powerful Minor Race that immediately goes genocidal on everyone's asses like miniature, bunny-shaped (and they must be bunny-shaped) Dread Lords.

The world is your oyster and with the experience of two titles behind you guys I think there's a lot you can do. Stardock has never ceased to impress me and Galactic Civilizations 3 should be your crowning jewel.

95,672 views 36 replies
Reply #1 Top

There are plans for us to use dead or uninhabitable. Which one is unknown to me. Also I think gas giants will be mined as well. So you know now

 

DARCA. ;)

Reply #2 Top

It seemed way too obvious for them not to, which is partly why I brought this up!

I'd love to see some of the smaller things as well. I think the more character the game has, something Stardock is never usually light on anyway, the better it'll be.

Particularly the genocidal rabbits. I can see that being both hilarious and fun.

If not, well, that's what mods are for.

Reply #3 Top

There are genocide options in the game and other stuff we shouldn't say on the web...that are going to be absolutely amazing. :) (the snathi and rabbits would be a sight to see. Lol.)

 

DARCA. ;)

Reply #4 Top

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree!

 

I just loathe finding stars with no habitable planets

Reply #5 Top

I don't think having completely useless planets is a bad thing.  While I'd hate to anger the random gods and end up with a whole bunch of them, but I think they also add a certain something to the universe as well.  If you were indeed colonizing space today, you'd certainly come across planets that no matter how technologically advanced you were, that were just utterly useless.  Completely dead planets with zero chance of any sort of revitalization.  Perhaps planets that some ancient race extracted each and every resource leaving behind a completely lifeless hull.

Reply #6 Top

I can't agree less. Having PQ=0 planets is something I can buy into. Not having PQ=0 planets I can not buy into. The reason is that that is the way our own solar system is, and having it otherwise would reduce the "reality quotient" of the game. Making some PQ=0 planets usable in some manner, perhaps due to some tech advances giving different ways to exploit them, seems reasonable. but IMO some PQ=0 planets should remain that way, for pure decorative purposes if no other reason.

Reply #7 Top

I respectfully disagree with most of what op suggested. With the exception of:

-Genocidal rabbits

-Being able to do something between survey ships and planets.

-Possibly to do some mining or maybe outposts on dead planets.

 

This being said, I do not know what SD have in their feature list that we still do not know yet but with all the announced features this game is already going to be huge. I think it would be wise to not push for too many brand new features and keep ammunition for the expansions.

I do not feel like there is anything wrong with having unusable planets. Actually, In GalCiv 2 I would set my galaxy so it had a lot of them. This allowed me to play in large galaxies that looked full of planets without having the tedium to manage 200 planets in the end game.

If every planet was colonizable it would become annoyingly tedious.

 

 

 

Reply #8 Top

Oh, I think having uninhabitable worlds is an absolute must, don't get me wrong. However I just think it's a waste of time to have worlds that are both uninhabitable, even if permanently uninhabitable, that also don't have any other purpose. Which is what Evil Max War picked up on. Even if you can't settle them you should be able to do something with them which is the root of my point.

So no, I would never advocate the non-existence of uninhabitable worlds or only worlds that can eventually be colonized.

I would advocate for planet construction, full-fledged terraforming, etc etc. But things like that and Gas Giants or other worlds should absolutely make a showing. It'd be ridiculous if they didn't, in my opinion.

However it is equally ridiculous to have empty worlds that you also can't touch at all. At least in my opinion.

Even if they are bundles of rock stripped of all useful resources, what if a precursor ship crashed on one? Who knows. Which is where the aforementioned Survey Ship idea comes into play.

Reply #9 Top

So your are saying that a survey ship should be able to survey a PQ=0 planet and sometimes find something on it? And that the planet would remain a PQ=0 planet? I like this idea.

Reply #10 Top

Or any planet, really.

What if your Survey Ship comes across a habitable world and you tell it to survey the planet before your colony ship arrives? Better yet you can make these surveys take longer, reduceable using technology. This adds greater value to Scouts that can keep exploring while your Survey Ship commits to longer missions. Maybe some sensor technology lets you find things you wouldn't otherwise find?

Naturally the habitability of the planet wouldn't be affected. I suppose there might be some events that cause the habitability to improve, such as something in the vein of...

"Your away team on Mambra IV stumbled across a massive subterranean device and inadvertently activated it, triggering a process that is rapidly terraforming the planet. Your scientists at the site expect the planet to reach X class within Y turns."

But other than that I figure the vast majority of events wouldn't have any effect on habitability but would make uninhabitable worlds that much more interesting.

 

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Reply #11 Top

Quoting SerakX, reply 10
"Your away team on Mambra IV stumbled across a massive subterranean device and inadvertently activated it, triggering a process that is rapidly terraforming the planet. Your scientists at the site expect the planet to reach X class within Y turns."

And just to add spice to the fun, perhaps it could cause the planet to lose quality occasionally, the theory being that the precursor race's requirements for habitability were quite different from ours.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting SerakX, reply 8
Oh, I think having uninhabitable worlds is an absolute must, don't get me wrong. However I just think it's a waste of time to have worlds that are both uninhabitable, even if permanently uninhabitable, that also don't have any other purpose. Which is what Evil Max War picked up on. Even if you can't settle them you should be able to do something with them which is the root of my point.

So no, I would never advocate the non-existence of uninhabitable worlds or only worlds that can eventually be colonized.

I would advocate for planet construction, full-fledged terraforming, etc etc. But things like that and Gas Giants or other worlds should absolutely make a showing. It'd be ridiculous if they didn't, in my opinion.

However it is equally ridiculous to have empty worlds that you also can't touch at all. At least in my opinion.

Even if they are bundles of rock stripped of all useful resources, what if a precursor ship crashed on one? Who knows. Which is where the aforementioned Survey Ship idea comes into play.

I really like your thinking and wholeheartedly agree... with one minor exception... 'empty worlds being ridiculous' - with the advent of galactic resources and (influence) starbases etc having deadspace adds a degree of depth because it becomes contested space with no immediate colonies meaning sensors (ability to detect enemies), life support systems (distance), engines (speed), raid/surprise attack tactics, etc etc come into play. Besides I tend to agree with Max as well on his last comment as I mainly play in the biggest galaxy size possible 

Quoting EvilMaxWar, reply 7
If every planet was colonizable it would become annoyingly tedious.
 

I am looking forward to what SD role out in their upcoming releases as I think they are already planning to improve this area as others have already mentioned and I think are alluded to in the Founder's Vault.

Reply #13 Top

That would add a clever twist to the survey ship. It would be interesting that the survey ship explores what is thought to be a class 0 planet and finds a fledgling race of whatever on it. Or find a precursor ship or a special mineral. Or maybe a explosive device that explodes and destroys the planet and damages the survey-ship. I would also agree that it the survey ship should take a turn to explore said planets.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting parrottmath, reply 13
I would also agree that it the survey ship should take a turn to explore said planets.

I would go one step further with turn to survey... 

Basic technology to survey worlds takes 10 turns to do basic survey, 20 turns to do a deep survey.

Next technology may cut this in half, and next cut in half again. basic survey has 1% to find something where as deep survey should have 2% or something along that.   

Or just generate planets with items hidden in them, which basic could accidently stumble on something that the deep survey would normally uncover...

Reply #15 Top

If you do not survey a planet and colonize it instead, do you lose the potential bonus?

 

Reply #16 Top

Quoting EvilMaxWar, reply 15
If you do not survey a planet and colonize it instead, do you lose the potential bonus?

I think you could do both?  maybe you'd double planet quality or cut planet quality in half depending on what you find...    Of course I'd say you'd have many more options to find than that...

Maybe if you survey it prior to colonization you could possibly find something that allows you to place the placement tiles on the planet or maybe two extra quality tiles that you can place yourself things like that...

Reply #17 Top

Are you suggesting that you could survey already colonized planets? Somehow that feels a bit weird.

Reply #18 Top

Quoting EvilMaxWar, reply 17

Are you suggesting that you could survey already colonized planets? Somehow that feels a bit weird.

I am yes, but at risks....

Reply #19 Top

I would call colonizing a planet equivalent to a deep scan of the planet. Your sending millions / billions of people to the planet, I'm sure they will find anything that was there.

Reply #20 Top

Yes, my point was that once a planet is colonized and billions of people live on it, you'd expect that its secrets would be know.

 

Reply #21 Top

Quoting parrottmath, reply 19
I would call colonizing a planet equivalent to a deep scan of the planet. Your sending millions / billions of people to the planet, I'm sure they will find anything that was there.

Maybe, but I was thinking that it could still open up other possibilities even with habitable worlds.  Maybe surveying prior to colonization would get you extra benefits of some sort...

Reply #22 Top

Quoting LordChess, reply 12
I really like your thinking and wholeheartedly agree... with one minor exception... 'empty worlds being ridiculous' - with the advent of galactic resources and (influence) starbases etc having deadspace adds a degree of depth because it becomes contested space with no immediate colonies meaning sensors (ability to detect enemies), life support systems (distance), engines (speed), raid/surprise attack tactics, etc etc come into play. Besides I tend to agree with Max as well on his last comment as I mainly play in the biggest galaxy size possible 

I agree entirely. Like I mentioned, permanently uncolonizable planets have a place. But that doesn't mean they can't do something else, such as be mined or surveyed. This would go well with a particular feature mentioned in the founder's vault back on the first of this month.

The discussion really took off while I was out! Good to see that.

As far as colonization is concerned, yeah. I feel like that'd trigger those events, though perhaps not immediately. This could be the source of random events in the future, actually, such as plagues. Whether they were discovered by colonists or Survey Ships would change the result. Imagine this:

Colonists accidentally release a dangerous, life-destroying disease on a planet you colonized a few turns ago starting a plague event.

Explorers accidentally release a dangerous, life-destroying disease on a planet they were surveying, starting a plague that only affects that world and brings the planet quality down to X before dying out.

Conversely it might be worse if you had surveyed first before colonization. If you'll indulge me further:

Colonists stumble across an ancient Precursor warhead, still armed, but thanks to the accidental nature of the discovery they are cautious enough to avoid setting it off.

Explorers stumble across a strange device and, ordered to investigate anything interesting, set off the device and a massive explosion with it. The away team is lost and the planet drops to X quality.

Oops.

Of course both of those things dealt with adjusting planet quality. There are countless more options as you've all pointed out. It creates an entirely new layer to the game and could be combined with ideological choices to synergize perfectly with that revamped portion of the system.

 

Reply #23 Top

There are a lot of things that you can do with PQ=0 (and other planets as well) that make them useful in the long run without making them another thing to manage. For instance: gravity pull, the bigger the planet/solar system the bigger the bonus, if your ship pass through a big planet you can save some fuel (movement points) making a way to improve the movement of a ship and searching for the ideal path (and making it a tactical movement in some ways). Another would be tourism income from the PQ=0 planets in your influence sphere, e.g., "enjoy one of the most beautiful planets on existence, although inhabitable, its colors and interesting rings are a galaxy wonder!!!" (This can even work much better with a tourism star base). Another thing than can be done is to hide some ship in the proximity of an inhabitant planet (including friendly non-PQ=0 planets). You can see it as a "magnetic alteration" that mess up with sensors. The bigger the planet, the larger the bonus (and the larger/bigger the fleet/ship the harder it became to hide).

 

You can also give a chance that a planet can be mined or exploited with the correct technology (if every planet can be mined or exploited it becomes really unfair income in larger galaxies with a lot of planets and a hellish management in those galaxies, but if you have to search for an specific PQ=0 planet with a probability similar to finding, lets say, a PQ>25 planet it'll be much more interesting and challenging)

Reply #24 Top

I hope Stardock is taking note of this suggestion; this would really improve the game!

Reply #25 Top

If Stardock eventually adds feature about unhabitable planets, I would not mind mining colonies on some planets,

and

Sensor and supply outposts like in Moo2 could be nice too. Gives you a cheap way to extend your range. And monitor what is going on. They could be built on planets with constructors instead of colony ships and maybe upgraded just like Starbases. They would still be succeptible to influence conversion.

 

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