Production Wheel

Personally I find it great.

As far as ease of use and being able to tune it to the values I want I have no problems. I did not need any adaptation, it was just natural to use. Maybe it is not the case for everyone, our brains do not all function the same, but personally I find it obvious to use.

The 3 sliders were really annoying to use because they were interrelated, so moving one would change the other. The lock mechanism was slightly buggy and the whole thing felt convoluted.

The main complaint I have seen on the forums about the wheel seem to be related to some players reportedly having difficulty setting in the Exact values they want.

To this I respond, was it really any easier with the 3 sliders?

I also ask: Is it really necessary to have 60% 20% 20%  or 59% 19% 22% is sufficient?  I really don`t mind +/- 1% error, I am not OCD about it and I do not think it will change much in your game.

I agree that maybe It could use some touch up with the color choices and aesthetic design but really the colors are not really essential in using it. It is purely geometric in design. I guess that someone with a very different brain than me, possibly a very visual or artistic person could litteraly use it through color only, but damn that is weird to imagine.

The only complaint I would make right now is not really with the wheel itself but rather about the fact that I cannot see my research ETA time while I adjust it.

I guess my biggest complaint about the wheel is the colours are very hard for me to handle, and seem problematic for colour blind players. If the colours where less harsh, or just not there at all, I would probably find the wheel a lot easier to use. An option there would not go amiss.

Also I think you might find that a lot of people with OCD tendencies are the ones that enjoy tweaking colonies turn after turn. For me it is necessary to have 60/20/20 sometimes as opposed to 59/19/22, even if the output ends up being no different.

Lastly I dig your idea about showing how adjusting the wheel affects the research time

The colors on the wheel are rather saturated despite my monitor having a cool/neutral tint. I guess to someone with a already colorful saturated display, they might seem excessive. 

It is still possible to set exact values on the wheel, It is just going to maybe take you 5 sec instead of 2. I just tried the 60/20/20 example I gave and it was easy.

I guess what SD could do regarding the govern screen, is simply not hide the rest of the UI when you are in it. This way you can see your ship and Research ETA updated in real time.  ( Provided we get the ETA in the right screen part eventually ).

I'm personally R/G colourblind, and I have no problems whatsoever. Just look at the production icons (The hammer, the credit pile and the flask) instead of the colours.

I'd like the production wheel to stay, but I would like it to have more friction and be harder to move, which would make being precise much easier.

Harder to move? Not sure im following your there. But if you are referring to the removal of the slight rubber banding effect between your mouse cursor and the wheel dot I agree.

Edit : Also, I just tried dialing in more asymetrical values such as 50%- 15%- 35%  . It seems much harder than symmetrical values where at least 2 parameters are the same.  But after a couple tries I was getting better at it.

That's the Sovereign solution.

Have the wheel like sliders. The wheel takes alot of hand, eye concentration with tiny numbers changing fast all stacked upon each other on a small display. It need to be tighter, and many players have said that including myself.

Max, Max, Max one percent can mean the difference between having that tech completed in time or having enough money to buy a ship. One percent over a Empire of a hundred systems or even one, is worth taking the time to plan and the wheel takes a bit more time. That's not cool. :[

DARCA.

That is not related to your ability to set an exact pre-decided value on all you parameters as much as your ability to monitor your research and economic status in real time as you move the wheel.

That is why I said in my first post of this thread that I wished to have the current research ETA displayed and updated as I moved around the wheel.

I have had the resource values for this wheel pretty high and I too find it difficult to set it as accurately as I would like. And the larger the source resources for the wheel are, the more difficult setting it accurately to your goal becomes. I posted a thread on the "support" sub-forum and got this response from Raynman: "Thanks for the feedback! The production wheel is still in early development and I will make sure your comments are noted."

My thread is at https://forums.galciv3.com/453292/page/1/#3456512.

I don't care for the production wheel.  The sliders were easier to set exact values for me.  With the lock mechanism, I could set it to 20, 20, 60 with no problem.  The production wheel is cute and all, but if I want that 20, 20, 60 deal, I have to go searching for the exact dot that represents those values.  It's possible of course, but I still have to hunt it down.  It was just easier with the sliders.

Yeah, I have to have the exact values too, or my family will die.  Sliders made it easer to get exact values - the production wheel's "eh, close enough" approach is not an improvement (for me anyway).

I agree the wheel needs work. Right now it is more Microsoft when it needs to be Apple, if you follow. 

As far as being difficult to hit whole numbers, why not just add in a snap to nearest whole number function or something? Seems like that would work for most, and for those who like to tinker and tweak to the perfect percentile they could just turn it off.

It all comes down to fewer movements.

One click for the wheel or 3 clicks for sliders.

I think the wheel is nice, it just needs a few tweaks and enhancements to make it outstanding.  Maybe some of these have already been suggested, if so add this as my vote for them.

- Include a color-blind theme for the GUI.  Many other games have this.
- Allow the user the option to directly edit the numerical values.  Enter one value and the others adjust appropriately.
- Allow putting a "lock" on one value so you can alter the other two only, whether by mouse or keyboard.
- Allow the user to make fine adjustments to the values using the arrow keys.
- Another nice feature would be clicking just outside the color wheel would slowly move the cursor towards that point.

I just made an experiment: 

I wrote 5 arbitrary set of values on a paper that when added together would equal 100. I used a stopwatch and using the production wheel I dialed in the exact values and noted the time it took . I repeated 5 times.

I then did the same using the 3 sliders in GalCiv 2

The values were : (35%,25%,40%),(17%,42%,41%),(28%,36%,36%),(7%,15%,78%),(54%,28%,18%)

Times for Production wheel:  1:50 , 1:17, 1:00, 1:07, 0:55  Average Time : 1:14

Times for Sliders :  1:18,0:57,0:57,0:55,0:51 Average time : 1:00

So at first glance it seems the sliders are actually faster to use to dial in exact values.

I made several interesting observations.

1.I was getting better with each try ( no brainer )

2.The first try with the wheel was significantly harder than the rest.

3.Using the wheel required more mental efforts, I actually had to think where I needed to put the dot while with the slider it was a purely mechanical task.

4.Most of the time consumed with the wheel was from trying to get exact values, ( getting roughly the right values was much quickler )

5. Dialing in symmetric values i.e (28%,36%,36%) is very easy on the wheel, compared to asymmetric values like (54%,28%,18%). On the sliders this does not really change anything.

Thank you Captain obvious! What would we have done if you didn't just find out what we already knew!!! lol.

DARCA.

And tell me DARCA, what is obvious exactly?

It's a turn based game, there is no rush to dial in the exact amounts you want.  I like the idea of being able to lock in values so as you manipulate the wheel only the values you want changed are indeed changed, but I don't really care if getting the precise values I want is 1:00 v.s. 1:15...  

Lol man. We know it takes more time, It take me ten seconds tops so I don't know where a minute times come from. But really, did you have to go through all that to prove what everyone was already saying. I just find it ironic, I'm still laughing to myself when I think about how you used a stopwatch! I have to go to work tomorrow and I can't get to sleep because I'm laughing. Lol

DARCA.

The wheel is similar to the RGB wheel in some programs and, in those programs, they add the option to write in some text boxes the numbers of the RGB code. So, a way to ease those people who want to put a specific number you could always write 60, 20, 20 and the wheel is updated automatically without having to spend "hours" moving the wheel. 

I like the wheel. I always hated the 3 sliders.

Darca you are an idiot.

Are you? Just relax bro.

Was about to suggest this till I saw your post. I reckon that would be a welcome addition to the wheel, I'd imagine the devs are probably considering this later on since it be daft not to have it.

The time is from dialing 5 sets of values one after the other, there is no way you can do this in 10 seconds.

Wait. You didn't just do it five times a game, you did five sets of five? Either way, if I want a exact value it takes me about tens seconds at most.

in the end it wlll be tweaked to be a round slider that is less sensitive. As we have previously discussed on this forum.

Reference pls?