Drengin - do they lack character? Are they just your stereotypical evil faction?

It seems to me that the Drengin are just well, your stereotypical "bad guys".

 

They lack any sort of depth, any sort of character. There are no signs that there is a culture behind them - just a desire to conquer the universe and make everyone their slaves.

 

They're the bad guys. It's obvious to everyone that plays. But at the same time, there's nothing else. They are simply ... the bad guys. What I think is lacking is a more in depth background and an impact on how that affects them. True in GC2, there was some race-specific dialogue, but that was about it.


Can something be done to address this in GC3?

37,712 views 18 replies
Reply #1 Top

I've come to expect campy characterizations of major races that can be summarized in a single sentence;

Terran Alliance: Human Faction.

Altarian Republic: Suffer from STD (Star Trek Disorder, look like Humans), Do-gooders.

Torian Confederation: Vengeful former slaves.

Krynn Consulate: Hyper-religious theocracy dedicated to proselytizing.

Drengin Empire: Evil main antagonists dedicated to slaughter and mayhem.

etc...

While I would object to this in another game or setting that takes itself more seriously, or relies heavily on its story to exist, it's not really a big deal in Galactic Civilizations. That being said, if the races are expanded upon further, I'd be the last to complain. 

Reply #2 Top

Gather around children for the story I will make up as I go along!


 

Once upon a time many years ago on a planet stupidly called drengilenmagen there was a partly intelligent, easy to kill, poorly adapted, lava fish called a lenmagen. The lenmagen was about the same size as a torian and tasted like one to. The only differences being the lenmagen could live in lava and water in drengilenmoagen's mantel, and all the lenmagen are dead. }:)

The primitive inhabitants of drengilenmagen ate the lenmagen (and sometimes each other) but that wasn't enough. What were they to do all day? KILL AND ENSLAVE!!!!! Besides tasting good, and being great farm animals like horses or oxen, they died easy. Anyone could do it, nationwide contests were held for killing and capturing lenmagen. The judging criteria was based on creativity, speed, and how many were caught or killed. (there were cooking contests as well.}:) )

The events were popular from the beginning, and the drengilenmoagen just kept getting better at killing them.

The word dreng/i/lenmagen means master and prey. But the lenmagen weren't prey anymore. They became wise to the drengin killing them and used their tiny brains to rebel. But it was to late. The drengin were raising in intellect and population faster than they ever could. When the lenmagen attacked it was at the the drengin space age. Tiny herbivores running at nine foot drengin and nipping at their heals resulted in every last one being shot and eaten. The ones that didn't attack but fled, were hunted down and eaten. Those that stayed were also eaten.

Eventually the last one was eaten and they went extinct. Why? The drengin had found new lenmagen called Torians. Drengin no longer refer to their planet as drengilenmagen because they believe prey is never ending. dreng/i Master and...whoever they deem prey.

 

DARCA. ;)

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Reply #3 Top

That's actually pretty good!

Reply #4 Top

I think you exaggerate a little. Yes, the Drengin are stereotypically evil. However, they're not completely one-note.

Here are some things I know about the Drengin:

1. They are patient. If a plan takes tens of thousands of years to come to fruition, they are perfectly willing to wait. See the first conquest of Toria as an example. The Yor are probably the only race more patient than the Drengin.

2. They are calculating. When the Drengin gained access to Hyperdrive they could have easily re-conquered Toria. They didn't, because there was no point to it. They had already strip-mined the planet of all valuable resources. If the Torians hadn't antagonised the Drengin at every possible opportunity, the Drengin would have most likely ignored them. However, that wasn't meant to be. Now, the Torians serve as dinner.

3. They live for conquest and slaughter. Citizens happily give up personal agendas, if it will make the Drengin more lethal.

4. They are telepathic. The Drengin can sense pain and anguish, and are absolutely ecstatic about experiencing it in others. They're don't like experiencing pain themselves, however. (Except for the researchers. Pain makes them think better.)

5. They don't understand fiction. For the Drengin there are truths and there are lies. There is no make-believe. There are no fictional books or actors in Drengin-society. The Drengin are not entertained by such things.

6. They do what they're told. If you have a genetic pre-disposition towards research, you'll become a researcher. If you have a genetic pre-disposition towards combat, you'll become a warrior. If you have a genetic pre-disposition towards dying a painful and horrible death, you'll die a painful and horrible death.

7. They're great genetic engineers. Over the millennia, they learned how to grow better and better researchers, slaves, and warriors. A little too good in case of the Korath.

8. They're slavers. Do I even have to go into this?

I've probably forgotten a couple things. However, I know more about the Drengin than about the Meklar (or any of the other races) from MoO 2, and I've played MoO 2 long before I've encountered GalCiv.

Reply #5 Top

Honestly, the only 4X game I can think of where the races aren't just broadly-drawn stereotypes is Sword of the Stars, and that's debatable. The Drengin aren't any more one-note then anyone else, and they're so over the top it's entertaining.

Also, as Gaunathor notes, we do know a lot about the ways in which they're one-dimensionally evil. And I think it fits together pretty well (for instance, 5 may explain why they hate humans so much).

Reply #6 Top

I'm thinking compared to Alpha Centauri for example, the factions seem to lack "life" in a sense.

Reply #7 Top

Quoting Gaunathor, reply 4
4. They are telepathic. The Drengin can sense pain and anguish, and are absolutely ecstatic about experiencing it in others. They're don't like experiencing pain themselves, however. (Except for the researchers. Pain makes them think better.)

Are you sure you don't mean "empathic"? That's what this sounds like. Telepathic means being able to read another's thoughts.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting Lucky, reply 7


Quoting Gaunathor, reply 44. They are telepathic. The Drengin can sense pain and anguish, and are absolutely ecstatic about experiencing it in others. They're don't like experiencing pain themselves, however. (Except for the researchers. Pain makes them think better.)


Are you sure you don't mean "empathic"? That's what this sounds like. Telepathic means being able to read another's thoughts and to send one's thoughts to another mentally.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting Lucky, reply 8
Are you sure you don't mean "empathic"? That's what this sounds like. Telepathic means being able to read another's thoughts and to send one's thoughts to another mentally.

That's what I'd say too. However, the part of the lore where this is mentioned (description of the Arena of Agony tech) specifically mentions telepathy first, so I kept it. It's possible, that the author confused telepathy with empathy, or maybe all Drengin are empaths while some of them are also telepaths. Or maybe I just misunderstood it all. That's also a possibility.

Reply #10 Top

By human moralistic values, the Drengin are evil. They delight in the concept of causing pain to all sub-Drengin.  That is because they don't see anything but themselves as sentient.  Everyone else is basically a bug to them.  The feelings or thoughts of sub-Drengin are irrelevant. 

The issue of what defines sentience will be coming up in one of the expansions later on (years from now). But sentience is a big deal in the galciv universe.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 10

By human moralistic values, the Drengin are evil. They delight in the concept of causing pain to all sub-Drengin.  That is because they don't see anything but themselves as sentient.  Everyone else is basically a bug to them.  The feelings or thoughts of sub-Drengin are irrelevant. 

The issue of what defines sentience will be coming up in one of the expansions later on (years from now). But sentience is a big deal in the galciv universe.

Sapience.

I don't want to be that guy, but yeah, sapience, not sentience.

:3

I'll leave now.

Reply #12 Top

No.

Sentience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience

 

;-)

 

Reply #13 Top

Doesn't that kind of reinforce the stereotype though?

 

Quoting Gaunathor, reply 4


1. They are patient. If a plan takes tens of thousands of years to come to fruition, they are perfectly willing to wait. See the first conquest of Toria as an example. The Yor are probably the only race more patient than the Drengin.

 

They are long term thinkers. I think that in our fast paced modern society, long term thinking has been forgotten. I do find that whatever their other flaws, East Asian societies tend to be better at this. Being patient is not as alien as it seems.

 


 

Quoting Gaunathor, reply 4

2. They are calculating. When the Drengin gained access to Hyperdrive they could have easily re-conquered Toria. They didn't, because there was no point to it. They had already strip-mined the planet of all valuable resources. If the Torians hadn't antagonised the Drengin at every possible opportunity, the Drengin would have most likely ignored them. However, that wasn't meant to be. Now, the Torians serve as dinner.

 

Isn't that common sense? Only conquer what is worth taking?


 

Quoting Gaunathor, reply 4

3. They live for conquest and slaughter. Citizens happily give up personal agendas, if it will make the Drengin more lethal.

 

Again, in more collectivist societies around the world, that is very common. The individual's needs are always subordinate to those of the collective good.

 

Quoting Gaunathor, reply 4

4. They are telepathic. The Drengin can sense pain and anguish, and are absolutely ecstatic about experiencing it in others. They're don't like experiencing pain themselves, however. (Except for the researchers. Pain makes them think better.)

 

The fact that they are telepathic appears to be amoral. But their blind love of pain seems to fit the "stereotypical evil".


 

Quoting Gaunathor, reply 4

5. They don't understand fiction. For the Drengin there are truths and there are lies. There is no make-believe. There are no fictional books or actors in Drengin-society. The Drengin are not entertained by such things.

 

In a sense, they don't have a culture here - no stories, probably limited art too.

 

 

Quoting Gaunathor, reply 4

6. They do what they're told. If you have a genetic pre-disposition towards research, you'll become a researcher. If you have a genetic pre-disposition towards combat, you'll become a warrior. If you have a genetic pre-disposition towards dying a painful and horrible death, you'll die a painful and horrible death.

 

Again, collective society mentality. Individual is always subordinate to the collective good.

 

Quoting Gaunathor, reply 4

7. They're great genetic engineers. Over the millennia, they learned how to grow better and better researchers, slaves, and warriors. A little too good in case of the Korath.

8. They're slavers. Do I even have to go into this?

I've probably forgotten a couple things. However, I know more about the Drengin than about the Meklar (or any of the other races) from MoO 2, and I've played MoO 2 long before I've encountered GalCiv.

 

I think this reinforces what I've said. They will use genetic engineering where it suits their needs.

 

 

From this we can presume:

 

1. They are very collectivist

2. They are very long term thinkers

 

1&2 are common throughout many societies on earth.

 

3. They are very practical, using whatever tools and technologies (hyperdrive, genetic modification) as they see fit.

4. They desire dominion over other races.

5. There's a certain pragmatism - only conquer what is worth taking that goes through their society.

6. Society is probably very meritocratic.

 

There's no underlying culture in a sense.

 

It's very:

 

"Hello. We're Drengin. We just want to conquer the universe and enslave anybody. We're quite pragmatic and know that this could take some time to do. The end." 

 

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Iggore, reply 14

Like somebody mentioned, you can overlook the lack of originality with the fact that they're so over the top. The Dregin burn people's souls (Aul) to produce energy for fuck's sake. They're metal as fuck. Works for me.

 

e: but yeah they remain space orcs, down to the green skin.

 

Isn't it the Korath that do that?

 

The Drengin just want them enslaved.

Reply #15 Top

There a bit stereotypical. Drengin are a hard nut to understand particularly from a moral standpoint but not impossible. There early history is all but a mystery so no telling whether things were always like that but they have been space worthy and capable of building a stargate for over 150,000 years. Thats a long time to perfect education and cultural patterns particularly when genetic engineering is considered.

And yes they have a culture its just not the same as many others. Spartans of Greece saw themselves superior, Perfect warriors, Roles defined and education systems designed to create a population to do just that particularly when compared to Athens. And much less remains of citys and relics cause of the lack of art and creativity. Imagine if that was perverted into the joy of cruelty and you had 100,000 years to perfect it. Or combine Nazi fascism and spartan ideology into some strange hybrid.

I doubt the drengin themselves even know how it began at this point but they been doing it for longer than homo sapiens have been around. There very well could have been a time 200,000+ years ago they were a moral more primitive society. Its also possible they literally do not have the capacity to moral judgment or it has long been engineered out. Without a confirmation there isn't really a way to tell but either way they have perfected it and anything short of being brought to near extinction will likely shake it.

Reply #16 Top

well maybe the Drengin were always predators, and never omnivores. Maybe even came from a carnivore not a primate. There society always practiced canibalism. They never abolished slavery. Never invented industrialization. They actually only find warfare beneficial, and never wrong. Maybe having a paralell where Germany wins world war 2, or the Mongolians take over the world. The confederates win the civil war. The British wins the revolutionary war, or after the revolutionary war Washington becomes king, or the prince of Prussia. Democracy never gets invented. Not just united states becomes a monarchy, but this would actually have repercussions all over the world. If there were a scenario where something happened like Germany winning world war 2 the United nations would never have formed. Maybe they are overpopulated, or used up all their resources. A plague or parasites infected all, or most of the faction affecting how they think. Here's an idea everyone, or almost everyone gets a chip implanted in their heads for something as simple as internet aces. Some geek comes along vreates a virus gets it on the web out of boredom. This virus warps the brain where they get downloaded evil thought into everyone brains. Another fault of the virus is that it never occurs to anyone that this doesn't exists. Maybe someone engineered these guys for war, or fighting. Then they turned around and destroyed their creators. The tech would have to change a little to fit this, but this is a few ideas I have come up for creative Drengin. Maybe somewhere in their history where everyone gets raped. Even something where it is popular to practice incest breeding a bunch of retarded Drengin. Retards can still function it just takes time. Her are a few ideas I came up with. 

Reply #17 Top

Quoting UnleashedElf, reply 14
Isn't it the Korath that do that?

No, the Drengin do it too (via Death Furnaces), but not as extreme as the Korath (who burn up part of the biosphere in order to fuel their Aul Incinerators).

Reply #18 Top

Quoting admiralWillyWilber, reply 16
Never invented industrialization.

 

How would they have gotten into space then?