UEFI, Windows 8.1, and Backup Images

Oh, and the problem lies in the fact that , at least this OEM machine, uses GPT, rather than MBR.

I have read that I may be able to convert it to MBR, then install Windows 8 from a non UEFI disc. Which I have one of those.

On any drive over 2.2 TB you have to format them in GPT. So that means it can't be used as a boot drive. Just tried to install a 4 TB DeckStar HD on Win 7 and ended up taking about 3 hours of research and formatting to get it to work. You're making me think twice about upgrading to Win 8. Does that mean you can't even use Windows own Image program?

Now you understand why I posted way back when about UEFI and what a stupid POS idea it is.

It may be a POS idea but all the high end motherboards are now using UEFI so looks like were kinda stuck with it.

Upgrading to 8 is ok, if you like 8. Just do it in MBR mode and do it on your own built rig. With a normal Windows 8 disc or ISO from the MS Store.

My main rig has a UEFI BIOS but the Windows 8.1 OS on it wasn't installed in UEFI mode. So it doesn't have all these problems. I can restore a disk image backup on it fine.

The problem here is that the OEM machine I bought came preinstalled with a UEFI version of Windows 8.1 which was installed in UEFI mode.

Other words, the UEFI bios isn't the problem. It's the mode in which the OS was installed.

I have seen articles on how to make your own UEFI Windows 8 disc from your non UEFI one.

Why would you want to?

Yes Doc, it is truly a POS!

I didn't do any of this. I only formatted the recovery drive and made a storage drive from it, once I made recovery discs.

All the unallocated partitions and crap loses me...

Not necessarily.

It looks like you can use windows to do a Image backup with Powershell. Here is a link http://www.howtogeek.com/167984/how-to-create-and-restore-system-image-backups-on-windows-8.1/   So I just have to be careful when I install to make sure it isn't in UEFI. I am really debating whether to use 7 or 8 on my new rig when its finished.

I gave up on partitioning drives. I have a Huge old Raidmax case with 3 BR drives. a Vantech hot swap bay, floppy drive and 4 internal drives. Also have 4 Roswell external bays hooked up in eSATA. I use Ghost to back up images on a separate 3TB drive. Don't know why you cant install your operating system on separate drives for a dual boot then edit the MBR using easybdc to duel boot. I will experiment with that and see how it goes. Course that wont work on a laptop with 1 drive would it.

@ RND

For the record the latest versions of Easeus ToDo Backup have no trouble with GPT partitions. 

Last fall (Sept 2013) I purchased a new Toshiba notebook (Windows 8) and wanted to image the 1TB normal drive to an SSD I already had to make the SSD the boot drive and keep the 1TB regular drive for data etc.  Initially just like you I ran into some issues using an older (outdated) version of Easeus ToDo.  I contacted Easeus, upgraded to the newer version of ToDo Workstation which has no issues with GPT partitions etc. and the task was completed painlessly.

I can create an image backup just fine with my program. It's restoring it that's problematic.

Monk, thanks...looking into it! 

Any idea what I need to do to successfully create a new partition? Every time I try, the system won't boot afterward.

I tried with Disk Management in Windows 8, and I tried with Easeus Partition Master.

Here's what I did to migrate the boot partition and all pertinent data from the 1TB drive my notebook shipped with, to the SSD I already had.

1.  I upgraded to the newest Easeus ToDo Workstation software.

2.  I created a bootable CD with the ToDo software on it.

3.  Having both the 1TB regular drive and the SSD connected I booted to the ToDo backup CD.

4.  Selected the boot partition on the 1TB and cloned it to the then empty SSD.

5.  After the clone/copy job completed I turned the system off.  Disconnected the 1TB regular drive to test things and removed the ToDo backup CD.

6.  Booted the notebook.  It booted in exactly the same fashion it had when booting from the 1TB regular drive albeit now a tad faster.

I literally did not have to do anything else to get things working.

EDIT:

As has already been previously stated.  The issue is GPT.  All you need to do is make sure any imaging (backup/restore) software you wish to use properly supports GPT partitions and things will be just as painless (in terms of backup and restore) as they used to be.  

Sounds like a good option, I'll give it a try.

Except for getting the machine to boot from the DVD. It seems I have to go into BIOS and disable the UEFI Boot Options, and Secure Boot, and enable Legacy Boot Options in order to get the PC to boot from the Easeus Disc.

Enlighten me if you know an easier way.

I had written a reply here previously, but when i pressed 'Post Reply' I suddenly got signed out and I lost it all.  Anyway, here's the basics of it....

That's Easy!  To complete the UEFI circle and take greater advantage of the system's hardware, faster speeds and responsiveness. In other words, you create a more efficient machine when you complete the UEFI environment.  However, it is advisable to build your own UEFI machine as the OEMs have too many restrictions, preload too much bloatware and make you jump through too many hoops to get a PC running to your liking and needs.  At least when you build your own you call the shots, decide which components to use and not use, which OS best suits your needs.

No, Doc, it is not!  Windows 8 is the POS [Powerful Operating System] UEFI is actually an escape from the restrictions of a Legacy BIOS. 

I am on my third UEFI motherboard now and I will honestly say that I've not had an issue I couldn't resolve in just a few minutes.  There were a couple of minor things, but those were due to user error while I was familiarising myself with the new UEFI environment.  Other than that, I've had trouble free use that has ultimately been a superior user experience to the Legacy builds I've done in the past.  Not only are the UEFI systems I've built faster and more responsive than the Legacy ones, they also seem more stable and reliable...no BSODs or system freezes to speak of.

Would i go back to a Legacy BIOS?  No! Not Willingly!  I do have a Legacy board here that I could possibly use in a pinch, but given I have 3 UEFI systems at my disposal, I do not see it'll become an issue any time soon

From what I read UEFI Partitions the hard drive with 4 partitions automatically in GPT mode and then installs windows.That means there is no MBR and you can't reparation and do a duel boot.The article also said you have to have a specially formatted DVD to boot up from CD drive. But didn't say how to make it. Might want to research that more,I didn't have time. It also said to boot from a thumb drive it has to formatted with fat32 to work.

Must have been that goofy...er UEFI bios....

I was able to dual boot finally.

I made the partition, using Windows built in disk management.

I went into BIOS, turned off UEFI and Secure Boot, enabled legacy options, set it to boot to the DVD drive.

Installed 7, then set BIOS back to defaults.

Voila!

Long way around the barn, but I got it done.

Well that's not my experience of things, not at all.  When I was ready to install Windows on my SSD there was only one partition.  From there, Win 8 created a "System Reserved" partition of 300mb, an EFI partition of 100mb, and the OS partition itself.

A UEFI system does not need a Master Boot Record like Legacy BIOSes, instead it records the installed HDDs in the GPT file.  However, this does not prevent dual booting should one wish to do so.  I also read that dual booting wasn't possible in a UEFI environment, so I [partially] tried to install Ubuntu on my UEFI based AMD FX 3850 rig, just to see if I could. I ran the installation disc and got to select the partition I wanted to use, and then I clicked install, which it began to do without hinderance.  I just didn't complete the installation because I didn't want to lose the rapid boot times I was achieving.

Also, I have a neighbour who dual boots Win 8 and Win XP Pro on his UEFI based machine, so it is possible. I just think there is way too much misinformation out there regarding UEFI and Windows 8, that people are possibly avoiding good and reliable systems on the basis of bullshit, for want of a better word/expression.  For example, I have performed reparations/recoveries in the UEFI environment without issue, either with Acronis True image or the native Windows recovery process, so that's not true.

What?  Really?  I don't know what that even means... or where the idea came from.  Unless they're talking really old hardware or some other issue from the Stone Age, that is totally rubbish.  I can boot from my Windows 8 disc, and I don't know that it is specially formatted.  I can boot from my Acronis recovery disc, and I didn't specially format that when I created it.  And for good measure, I'm going to try a Win 98 disc and an XP disc in my other UEFI machine.  Hang on!    Yup, just as I expected!  Both booted from disc.  So that's not true, either..

I dunno, I sometimes wonder if this misinformation is blatant bullshit, and if so, how do these 'media types' get away with it against some of the most powerful tech companies in the world.  Or alternatively, is it misguided opinion because the 'so-called' expert trusted to evaluate the tech had no clue what he/she was doing, therefore resulting in a completely unreliable review/assessment, whatever.  In either event, it makes me angry that the 'misinformation is allowed to remain out there to be embellished upon by another string of experts with an axe to grind.

I will admit that I was a bit hesitant at first, not knowing much about UEFI, but in having used it in 3 systems over the last 12 months, I will safely and categorically say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it [until I have a reason to bitch about it].  Nah, seriously, it's damn good tech when used properly/as intended and isn't feched up by an OEM. with an agenda to drive.

Hehe, couldn't help myself, could I?  Had to wind up with a bit of a conspiracy theory, didn't I!  Maybe, cos I loves a good conspiracy theory, and it's way past my bedtime, it'll help me to sleep better.

EDIT!!!

Oi, what business have you, posting in between me and my intended quotee, and then go insult my goofy BOIS in the preocess?  You've been a naughty boy again, haven't you!  Now you're to big to go over my knee fer a good whooping with grandma's best teatowel, not to mention too far away, so as punishment I'm gonna give you negative karma until the cows come home.

BTW, I'm pleased to see that you got it sorted.    See, with a bit of determination and a few cuss words, anything's possible.

Well, I can say this much...this rig would not boot to a Easeus backup disc. It would not boot to a Windows 7 install disc, until I went into BIOS and disabled UEFI.

It would, however, boot to a system recovery disc that I made when I bought the PC.

When setting up 7 on this dual boot, naturally I started the setup from within 8, but on the first reboot during setup, the install errored because setup could not boot to the 7 install disk on reboot.

I had to again, disable UEFI boot options, and secure boot, in BIOS, finish the install, then reset BIOS back to defaults.

So, It does need to be a certain format to the disc in order to boot to it, without disabling UEFI in BIOS first.

Starkers, your setup may be different. I can only report what I know to be the case with my rig. It is an OEM, whereas yours you self built. OEMs are locked down, as we all know.

Even HP support told me it couldn't be done, only because they weren't gonna tell me to alter the BIOS.

Of course my setup is different!  Unlike those OEMs, mine was assembled with TLC and a kiss or two along the way.  I wanted it to know that I love it, and that after turning her on I would still respect her in the morning.  Now them OEM folk don't do that, no siree, and that's why their machines have inferiority complexes and never seem to work quite right.

I guess that's what I was trying to say, that I sidestepped a lot of issues the OEMS build into their systems by building my own.  The main thing is that you have overcome the obstacles they placed in your way to achieve what you wanted from the machine, and good onya.  Like I said before, anything's possible with a bit of determination and a lot of cuss words, hehe!

Lots and lots of cuss words. I even had to make up some new ones to hold back redundancy. 

HP Non Support brought a few new ones outta me!! 

I would have preferred to built one, but I had to buy this thing on credit, best I could do.

Gets me in the livingroom with the missus, we's trying to get closer in our old age.    

Glad you got it going. It was verry late and I was reading trying to get tired enough to fall asleep.The article said the guy had to take out his video card and hook up to vga to get his system to boot also. So when I get to build my new rig looks like I have to do lots of research before I decide what to install and how to install it.  As a side question. Can you install operating systems on separate drives and still get them both to boot? Everything I've read talks of duel boots on a partitioned drive.

Normally, yes. Dunno about this UEFI shit.

I sit corrected. Once I reenabled UEFI, the Windows 7 install won't load. If UEFI is left disabled in BIOS, Both OSes load. But for some reason, then, my touchscreen doesn't work with UEFI disabled.

On top of that, there doesn't seem to be drivers for 7 for this rig.

I hate wasting a 500 GB HDD on a single OS. 

Guess I'm single booting.....bummer.