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New rig: your advice sought

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Glazunov1
ernie leo
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Reply #26 February 9, 2014 10:41:22 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting Glazunov1,
reply 24
Oh, and the liquid cooling: part of all the midtowers and fulltowers they offer. It's not optional. If it were, I'd drop it.

Do you have to buy a computer from them?

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Glazunov1
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Reply #27 February 9, 2014 11:22:37 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Kinger,
reply 21
Absolutely a SSD drive with a minimum of 250 Gigs. And at this moment in time I wouldn't touch AMD anything(that's just a personal preference)

 

Like I wrote above, not an option. I could do just this and nothing larger, but then there would be no HDD.

 

I'm pushing as is, with the added SSD referred to, above. I'm getting that look from my wife that says she'd considered selling my body to science if only she could get more than $39.99 for it.

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Glazunov1
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Reply #28 February 9, 2014 11:32:25 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting ernie leo,
reply 26


Quoting Glazunov1, reply 24Oh, and the liquid cooling: part of all the midtowers and fulltowers they offer. It's not optional. If it were, I'd drop it.

Do you have to buy a computer from them?

 

No, but I've found no other online "customize your own" site aside from Walmart, and that one's laughable. (Well, Puget Systems does this, too, but their prices are ridiculously high, and you get less computer for the money.) This place has some pretty good selections, and the prices don't seem outrageous. If you know of another site that let's you design your computer online, I'm game to try it. Don't think I'd trust Microcenter to do it, though there's one about an hour from us, plus they're usually expensive, and I know I wouldn't trust myself to do it.

 

With everything I mentioned earlier, plus the excellent suggestion for the SSD with 64 GB, I'm looking at under $1000. Which is very doable. I'm up for suggestions to change this configuration, but I have to keep it under that ceiling. I'd love to go Intel instead of AMD, but the cost is significantly higher.

 

I could try posting a comparable configuration for under a thousand, but the components wouldn't all be the same level of quality.

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Glazunov1
harpo99999
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Reply #29 February 9, 2014 4:52:16 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I would suggest reducing the cpu cores (& video card) (unless you will be editing video) to increase the ssd size( you WILL NEED the extra space on it from experience)

harpo

 

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Glazunov1
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Reply #30 February 9, 2014 6:07:54 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting harpo99999,
reply 29

I would suggest reducing the cpu cores (& video card) (unless you will be editing video) to increase the ssd size( you WILL NEED the extra space on it from experience)

harpo

 

 

Believe it or not, that's the low end for CPU cores and video card for price at the moment, due to "Valentine's Day sales" they've got going. Configuration's default to the lowest cost, unless it's listed as containing higher ones. So I could choose lower ones--and actually pay more right now.

 

If I go with this, though:

 

120GB Samsung 840 EVO Series SATA-III 6.0Gb/s SSD - 540MB/s Read & 410MB/s Write (Single Drive)


...instead of 64 GB, and increase to an 800 watt power supply, and get rid of this:


Which is literally right at $939. Thanks to yet-another Valentine's Day sale which it didn't default to, because an SSD was not part of the original package. So, Yippy Skippy, as Confucius would say. I can get the larger SSD, after all. Note, this:


120 GB Kingston HyperX 3K SATA-III 6.0Gb/s SSD - 555MB/s Read & 510MB/s Write (Single Drive) [+48]

 

These are other options for that size SSD. Is the performance poor enough on the Samsung to warrant any of the others, based on the numbers?

 


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Glazunov1
starkers
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Reply #31 February 9, 2014 7:01:48 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Motherboard: * GIGABYTE 970A-DS3P AMD 970 ATX w/ Ultra Durable 4 Classic, On/Off Charge, GbLAN, 2 PCIe x16, 3 PCIe x1, 2 PCI

I would be inclined to go with a Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3.  The higher chipset would mean better CPU response, less chance of a bottleneck with the power of a 6 core CPU... and not much difference in price, either.

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Glazunov1
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Reply #32 February 9, 2014 9:05:19 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting starkers,
reply 31


Motherboard: * GIGABYTE 970A-DS3P AMD 970 ATX w/ Ultra Durable 4 Classic, On/Off Charge, GbLAN, 2 PCIe x16, 3 PCIe x1, 2 PCI

I would be inclined to go with a Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3.  The higher chipset would mean better CPU response, less chance of a bottleneck with the power of a 6 core CPU... and not much difference in price, either.

 

I agree, but these are the only options they offer:

ASUS M5A97 LE R2.0 AMD 970 ATX w/ GbLAN, 2 Gen2 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1, 2 PCI (Pro OC Certified) [+29]

10GIGABYTE 970A-DS3P AMD 970 ATX w/ Ultra Durable 4 Classic, On/Off Charge, GbLAN, 2 PCIe x16, 3 PCIe x1, 2 PCI (Pro OC Certified)

ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 AMD 990 ATX w/ UEFI Bios, TUF Thermal Components, GbLAN, 4 PCIe x16, 1 PCIe x1, 1 PCI (Extreme OC Certified) [+166]

ASRock 990FX Extreme3 AMD 990FX ATX w/ UEFI Bios, XFast Technologies, GbLAN, 3x PCIe x16, 1 PCIe x1 & 2 PCI(Extreme OC Certified) [+63]

ASRock 990FX Extreme9 AMD 990 ATX w/ UEFI Bios, Xfast 555, THX TruStudio Audio, Intel GbLAN, 4 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1 (Extreme OC Certified) [+136]

ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z AMD 990 ATX w/ UEFI Bios, ROG Connect, SupremeFX III Audio, Intel GbLAN, 4 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1 (Extreme OC Certified) [+221]

20GIGABYTE 990FXA-UD3 AMD 990 ATX w/ Ultra Durable 3, On/Off Charge GbLAN, 4 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1, 1 PCI (Extreme OC Certified) [+71]

MSI 990FXA-GD80 V2 AMD 990 ATX w/ Winki 3 OC Genie, GbLAN, 4 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1, 1 PCI (Extreme OC Certified) [+131]

 

And as you can see, the other motherboard is $71 more. That's pushing it. I'll see if I can suggest this without having my wife ask me sweetly for any nearby cutlery, but I'm frankly doubtful.

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Glazunov1
starkers
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Reply #33 February 9, 2014 9:32:55 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting Glazunov1,
reply 32


I agree, but these are the only options they offer:

Okay, then, I would be looking at either the: ASRock 990FX Extreme3 AMD 990FX ATX w/ UEFI Bios, XFast Technologies, GbLAN, 3x PCIe x16, 1 PCIe x1 & 2 PCI(Extreme OC Certified)

or the: MSI 990FXA-GD80 V2 AMD 990 ATX w/ Winki 3 OC Genie, GbLAN, 4 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1, 1 PCI (Extreme OC Certified) [+131]

These would probably be the least expensive.. the ASUS Sabertooth and Crosshair boards are heading towards high-end... I know, I have the ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z in this rig I'm on now... not cheap.

However, this one: 20GIGABYTE 990FXA-UD3 AMD 990 ATX w/ Ultra Durable 3, On/Off Charge GbLAN, 4 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1, 1 PCI (Extreme OC Certified) [+71] should be quite similar to the one I suggested.

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Glazunov1
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Reply #34 February 9, 2014 9:37:01 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I just edited my response to answer you while you were answering me. The $71 is an issue. I'll suggest it, but I doubt it will fly.

 

My wife wants to see about pricing this rig down at Microcenter early this week, but I'm sure they'll be considerably more expensive.

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Glazunov1
starkers
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Reply #35 February 9, 2014 10:29:06 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting Glazunov1,
reply 34
I just edited my response to answer you while you were answering me. The $71 is an issue. I'll suggest it, but I doubt it will fly.

I don't mean to sound negative here, but if there's quibbling over $71.00 extra for a decent motherboard, which isn't a lot by today's standards, then is it wise to be thinking a new build at this time?  I realise you're not building anything high-end like I am, but you really need to set a budget higher than what you may eventually spend... so as to cover things like this, otherwise you end up compromising too much and end up with a machine that fails to satisfy your needs and expectations.

Honestly, I would wait if I were you, and get some more cash together for this project.  Allow for a couple of hundred more at least, more if you can, and if you don't spend it all, all well and good, but if extra is needed to get a decent RAM or a motherboard that isn't going to choke your CPU, then you're not compromising or struggling to to come in under budget.

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Glazunov1
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Reply #36 February 9, 2014 10:33:33 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting starkers,
reply 35


Quoting Glazunov1, reply 34I just edited my response to answer you while you were answering me. The $71 is an issue. I'll suggest it, but I doubt it will fly.

I don't mean to sound negative here, but if there's quibbling over $71.00 extra for a decent motherboard, which isn't a lot by today's standards, then is it wise to be thinking a new build at this time?  I realise you're not building anything high-end like I am, but you really need to set a budget higher than what you may eventually spend... so as to cover things like this, otherwise you end up compromising too much and end up with a machine that fails to satisfy your needs and expectations.

Honestly, I would wait if I were you, and get some more cash together for this project.  Allow for a couple of hundred more at least, more if you can, and if you don't spend it all, all well and good, but if extra is needed to get a decent RAM or a motherboard that isn't going to choke your CPU, then you're not compromising or struggling to to come in under budget.

 

So you don't feel the current motherboard is good enough to handle the rest? Because I got the impression from your response:

The higher chipset would mean better CPU response, less chance of a bottleneck with the power of a 6 core CPU... and not much difference in price, either.

 

That there was *less chance of a bottleneck,* not that the motherboard chosen would actually furnish a bottleneck.

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Glazunov1
Jafo
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Reply #37 February 9, 2014 10:40:01 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting starkers,
reply 35
but you really need to set a budget higher than what you may eventually spend...

I think his problem is....he needs to spend LESS than what he's currently budgeting on...

Limits are limits.  The only issue is 'expectations' for an unrealistic budget.

 

It's like building a house....everyone THINKS they are going to be the first to get something brilliant AND cheaply with it.

They are ALWAYS mistaken....

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Glazunov1
Glazunov1
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Reply #38 February 9, 2014 10:49:00 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Jafo,
reply 37


Quoting starkers, reply 35but you really need to set a budget higher than what you may eventually spend...

I think his problem is....he needs to spend LESS than what he's currently budgeting on...

Limits are limits.  The only issue is 'expectations' for an unrealistic budget.

 

It's like building a house....everyone THINKS they are going to be the first to get something brilliant AND cheaply with it.

They are ALWAYS mistaken....

 

Sorry to disagree, but this Mr. Everyone doesn't think I'm going to get something brilliant and cheap. Just something workable and affordable. Remember what I wrote at the start of this thread?

 

First off, this isn't intended for a twitch-game machine with surround sound. It needs reasonably decent graphics, lots of RAM, decent draw, plenty of USB ports. A business machine with some game capabilities. This is what I've built up, so far, and I'd like your opinion of these options. Bearing in mind that the phrase, "price is no object," would result in hysterical laughter from my wife and I for at least fifteen minutes.

 

The suggestion for the SSD was a good one. I can push that up. But I've about reached my limit, and if the motherboard is that bad, and will nullify whatever I achieve with the SSD, perhaps I should back off the SSD, as well. I'm amenable to suggestions along those lines, too. What I won't do is going over my limits to achieve somebody else's ideal. Just what I originally asked about.

 

EDIT: My wife and I have bought 4 houses and sold 3 of them over the last 30 years. We *have* got one that's brilliant, and cheap. You have to know your market. But that's another matter.

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Glazunov1
Jafo
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Reply #39 February 9, 2014 11:01:15 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting Glazunov1,
reply 38
Sorry to disagree, but this Mr. Everyone doesn't think I'm going to get something brilliant and cheap. Just something workable and affordable. Remember what I wrote at the start of this thread?

Yes...I added the example for Starker's benefit.... re 'budgets'...

Which-ever way you go...just don't 'skimp on'/not get a SSD...modest size...like 128 ..... pretty well nothing else you can add for its price will give you as much return of performance.

Storage, ram, etc can always be upgraded one day...to stave off the 'next' new machine a little longer...

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Glazunov1
Jafo
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Reply #40 February 9, 2014 11:05:49 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting Glazunov1,
reply 38
EDIT: My wife and I have bought 4 houses and sold 3 of them over the last 30 years. We *have* got one that's brilliant, and cheap. You have to know your market. But that's another matter.

Been an Architect for nearly 40  ....know how it's done ... but I wasn't talking Real Estate ... I was talking New Construction..... different critters entirely...

 

BTW....often the first 'cost' of a project is the Drawing fees.....and trust me....everyone wants those for 4/5ths of eff-all....

...step one on the road to the cheapest/best building eva...

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Glazunov1
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Reply #41 February 9, 2014 11:09:20 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Fair enough. And I agree, storage and RAM are always addable at a later date. With a 2 T secondary I shouldn't need the former for some time, but I'm not placing any bets on that. And I still really like the idea of the SSD, especially since, with the sale going on this week, I can get the 128GB one to handle the OS.

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Glazunov1
Jafo
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Reply #42 February 9, 2014 11:23:30 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

I upped mine from a 60 to a 240 ...with the idea I could add all my FSX [flight sim] files to it... along with the OS...but currently The FSX 'install' is at 195gig on its own ...so best plans of mice and men ...gonna need another one....

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Glazunov1
starkers
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Reply #43 February 10, 2014 12:09:28 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting Glazunov1,
reply 36
So you don't feel the current motherboard is good enough to handle the rest? Because I got the impression from your response:

Okay, I just took at the GIGABYTE 970A-DS3P AMD 970 ATX w/ Ultra Durable 4 Classic, On/Off Charge, GbLAN, 2 PCIe x16, 3 PCIe x1, 2 PCI.  and it supports AM2, AM2+ and AM3 CPUs 

Now the AMD FX-6300 you have chosen is an AM3+ socket, so check to see if these are compatible. I somehow don't think they are, though.  I once tried putting and AM3 socket CPU on an AM2+ socket board and it didn't work, so be sure before you commit to anything.  Also, the 970 board supports DDRII RAM and I'm almost certain you'll need a board that supports DDRIII to go with that AM3+ CPU... as in I think they're from different generations.

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Glazunov1
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Reply #44 February 10, 2014 12:41:32 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting starkers,
reply 43


Quoting Glazunov1, reply 36So you don't feel the current motherboard is good enough to handle the rest? Because I got the impression from your response:

Okay, I just took at the GIGABYTE 970A-DS3P AMD 970 ATX w/ Ultra Durable 4 Classic, On/Off Charge, GbLAN, 2 PCIe x16, 3 PCIe x1, 2 PCI.  and it supports AM2, AM2+ and AM3 CPUs 

Now the AMD FX-6300 you have chosen is an AM3+ socket, so check to see if these are compatible. I somehow don't think they are, though.  I once tried putting and AM3 socket CPU on an AM2+ socket board and it didn't work, so be sure before you commit to anything.  Also, the 970 board supports DDRII RAM and I'm almost certain you'll need a board that supports DDRIII to go with that AM3+ CPU... as in I think they're from different generations.

 

Good points. I'll inquire about them.

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Glazunov1
starkers
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Reply #45 February 10, 2014 5:25:07 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Okay, here's what I would do...

CPU: AMD FX 4130 @ 3.8... my ex has one and it is a very good quad core.  this would give you a saving of $40 - $50 over the 6 core

MOBO: Gigabyte GA-FXA-990FXA-UD3... fully supports the CPU, DDRIII RAM and SATA 3, USB3

RAM: Get 1 stick of 8gb rather than 2 x4gb... often this works out cheaper than 2 4s... and 1 extra stick gives you 16gb rather than 12

Optical Drive:  unless you do disc to disc copy/burn, just get the one for now, etc., get the 2nd later.

Sound card: unless you are going high end, the onboard sound would be sufficient..  upgrade to a better card when you can afford it

As for the rest, it seems okay, but still shop around to get the best deal.

Hope this helps.

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Glazunov1
harpo99999
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Reply #46 February 10, 2014 6:44:46 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I also have some positive experience with the amd fx 4130 (in one of my OWN comps, and in a customer's) the customer is using a 770 chipset mobo (that was bought from the same supplier at the same time) he is using a hdd as the os drive and a aftermarket ($50au) air cooler that he bought through ebay and has even overclocked (using the catalyst overlocking facility) to 4.9GHZ. my build is onthe CHEAPEST mobo ie a mini 760 sata 2 only gigabyte mobo (only got to 4.2ghz with water cooling (corsair 85)) and a 250gb ssd (and yes a ssd on sata 2 is heavily choaked by the sata 2) and am getting windows 7 with a full range of programs/utilites BUT NO toolbars/spyware loading and have all loaded within 50 seconds from hitting the power switch

harpo

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Glazunov1
starkers
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Reply #47 February 10, 2014 8:40:04 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting harpo99999,
reply 46

I also have some positive experience with the amd fx 4130 (in one of my OWN comps, and in a customer's) the customer is using a 770 chipset mobo (that was bought from the same supplier at the same time) he is using a hdd as the os drive and a aftermarket ($50au) air cooler that he bought through ebay and has even overclocked (using the catalyst overlocking facility) to 4.9GHZ. my build is onthe CHEAPEST mobo ie a mini 760 sata 2 only gigabyte mobo (only got to 4.2ghz with water cooling (corsair 85)) and a 250gb ssd (and yes a ssd on sata 2 is heavily choaked by the sata 2) and am getting windows 7 with a full range of programs/utilites BUT NO toolbars/spyware loading and have all loaded within 50 seconds from hitting the power switch

harpo

From what I understand, the 770 chip is DDRII, SATA 2 and not designed for AM3+ CPUs.  If that is true then wouldn't it be a bottleneck to SATA 3 SSDs and AM3+ CPUs, presuming AM3+s run on 770 chip mobos?

In any event, it all needs sorting out prior to potential mistakes being made and money is lost.

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Glazunov1
ernie leo
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Reply #48 February 10, 2014 9:48:59 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting Glazunov1,
reply 44
Good points. I'll inquire about them.

The board has an AM3+ socket and supports DDR3 & USB3 http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4591#sp  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128602

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Glazunov1
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Reply #49 February 10, 2014 9:54:46 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting ernie leo,
reply 48


Quoting Glazunov1, reply 44Good points. I'll inquire about them.

The board has an AM3+ socket and supports DDR3 & USB3 http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4591#sp  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128602

 

Thanks. That at least resolves one concern that was previously expressed, here.

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Glazunov1
harpo99999
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Reply #50 February 10, 2014 4:43:09 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting starkers,
reply 47


Quoting harpo99999, reply 46
I also have some positive experience with the amd fx 4130 (in one of my OWN comps, and in a customer's) the customer is using a 770 chipset mobo (that was bought from the same supplier at the same time) he is using a hdd as the os drive and a aftermarket ($50au) air cooler that he bought through ebay and has even overclocked (using the catalyst overlocking facility) to 4.9GHZ. my build is onthe CHEAPEST mobo ie a mini 760 sata 2 only gigabyte mobo (only got to 4.2ghz with water cooling (corsair 85)) and a 250gb ssd (and yes a ssd on sata 2 is heavily choaked by the sata 2) and am getting windows 7 with a full range of programs/utilites BUT NO toolbars/spyware loading and have all loaded within 50 seconds from hitting the power switch

harpo

From what I understand, the 770 chip is DDRII, SATA 2 and not designed for AM3+ CPUs.  If that is true then wouldn't it be a bottleneck to SATA 3 SSDs and AM3+ CPUs, presuming AM3+s run on 770 chip mobos?

In any event, it all needs sorting out prior to potential mistakes being made and money is lost.
both systems have ddr3 mobos, both mobos also are sold as am3+ . my mobo is a gigabyte 78lmt-usb3. my customer's system was built in october and from memory his mobo cost approx $125au, mine only cost $78au(budget at the time was very tight). looking at the gigabyte site I think I might have guessed wrong on my customer's mobo I think it might be a gigabyte ga-870a-usb3 based upon the features that I remember the customer having on his mobo.

glazunov1, sorry about the hijack of your thread.

harpo

 

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