UnleashedElf UnleashedElf

Races were too alike in GC2

Races were too alike in GC2

Probably the biggest issue I have with GC2 is that the races felt too similar.

 

- They all had similar tolerances for planets (ex: ideal for 1 race is ideal for all)

- Things like approval were similar (ex: for Drengin, perhaps conquering a planet should increase approval and give "slaves")

- Emphasis was similar across the races (ex: culture was doable by all - nobody had a culture penalty)

- The tech tree and improvements were a step in the right direction in Twilight, but it needs to be expanded on. Perhaps different races should have different weapons and different specializations.

87,527 views 49 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting UnleashedElf, reply 25


Quoting yarodin, reply 24

That's logic, but would give the Yor a too much an advantage during colony rush. They could settle every world in reach where as all the others would have to pick the worlds that are suitable for them. Either the Yor would must have another disadvantage during that phase (slow population growth or something like that) or they can not colonize every type of world - eg. radiation types because too strong radiation damages their "brains" - whatever kind of computer this may be.

 

Slow population growth seems like a good choice. Being robots, they don't need an atmosphere anyways. Radiation on the level that could damage a machine would be lethal to carbon based organic life.

 

I suppose it could be difficulties in the "spark".

Their a little slow on the colony rush, but it's all right. If you slow down the population of a tech tree that has it's main source of income is it's population more so than everyone else. Then they are going to have a hard time producing what they already can't produce. These are coming from the guys that don't have most forms of governments, and almost no economic structures. Please don't hinder their economics more than it is already by slowing down its income by slowing down its population; unless, you can solve this problem please I like the Yor, but they are hard to play without much economics.

Reply #27 Top

It was just a suggestion to slow down the Yor if they really could settle on every planet type. This would be a huge advantage during the first phase, so it'd need to be compensated. Slow population growth was just one possibility that ocurred to me. I'm sure there could be other ones I just didn't think of.

When I play Yor, I see to steal/trade tech increasing my economy and/or population growth.

Reply #28 Top

Quoting yarodin, reply 27

It was just a suggestion to slow down the Yor if they really could settle on every planet type. This would be a huge advantage during the first phase, so it'd need to be compensated. Slow population growth was just one possibility that ocurred to me. I'm sure there could be other ones I just didn't think of.

When I play Yor, I see to steal/trade tech increasing my economy and/or population growth.

 

To be honest, it's not a bad idea.

 

Yor could be one of those races that is:

 

1. Weak at early game

2. Average at mid-game

3. Very powerful relative to other races at late game

Reply #29 Top

I think the Sword of the Stars series is a good example of mechanical differentiation between races. In my experience they managed to keep the balance pretty even despite races having different mechanics, strengths and weaknesses.

 

Reply #30 Top

Maybe its just me, but when I play the Yor they don't have much in the way of economic structures for a long time. They are already limited on population; unless, all you do is build farming/morale structures. Everything else is really limited for a long time. The number one way the Yor has to build infastructure is farming. This is not on par with an economic stradegy of everyone else. If you don't have money coming in how do you manage stuff. The Ai already seems to not be able to handle this. Now you want to slow down their only source of income. if this is changed theirs not much they can do about that. Do you guys not really play the Yor, or do you guys like weak races. Really how good is an end game with only 4 planets. At least these 4 planets are going to rock right. This will seriously slow down production for a long time, or the production is going to be really slow. The Ai proves this is really hard to do.

My question is if you guys don't mind forcing Yor to trade to survive. Then why do you get mad when people have to trade to use their modules or the Thalans not being able to build starbases.

The Yor doesn't have good governments options. They lose economics on this. Their economics are already to limited. They don't have much in the line of economics building. All they can do is build limited farms with good morale. You can trade for other options, but relying on the computer for improvements is sometimes very slow. Not to mention the Yor is not fit that well for trading. They would probably have to give a lot to get economic techs. Don't say trade, Since you suggested slowing down population can you provide a solution for their economic problems.

Reply #31 Top

I'm not sure whether forcing them to trade is consistent with lore so to speak. They seem to be a more independent type of race. Their ultimate goal after all is for the Yor to rule and all organic life to be eradicated.

Reply #32 Top

I think the Yor economy, for want of a better word, should improve as they increase their numbers and the footprint of structures across the galaxy.  For flavour you could even give them a Distributed Stream Transactions or similar super project, allowing them to transfer and process vast quantities of information via stellar streams.  Instant communication across the galaxy is nice, but being able to move exabytes of data across light-years in microseconds is better.

Reply #33 Top

Ok.I'm on my third game and I'm trying the Yor out.For one,this has been my worst game do to being at war with the Terrans and Altarians,the strongest races in the game,almost since it started.Thing turn around when the Thalan surrendered to me and I got all there planets (We had been at war though neither of us were really fighting each other).This let me start getting my M-Type Destroyers in space and the games started to turn.Ok,back to what I'm trying to say,I don't know if it's just the game,but it seems like the Yor do a lot better with more world.I guess that most races are probable like though.Anyway I don't think the Yor need to be,for lack of a better term,nerfed.

Reply #34 Top

I'm surprised the Thalans surendered that sirprised are you playing the Autum twilight mod. To my opinion the Iconians are ptobably the next in line. The Terrans are good to.

Reply #35 Top

Quoting UnleashedElf, reply 14


 

1. Humans would be the most "GC2" like of the races. Strong diplomacy, average at most other things.

 

 

I for one would like to see Stardock do something a little more unique with the humans than they have in GC2.

I think the whole average human race is somewhat overdone. Something more specialized would be refreshing.

 

 

Reply #36 Top

Quoting admiralWillyWilber, reply 34

I'm surprised the Thalans surendered that sirprised are you playing the Autum twilight mod. To my opinion the Iconians are ptobably the next in line. The Terrans are good to.

Nope it's the Collectors Edition so no Twilight or Dark Avatar.The game has come down to me(Yor),the Terrans,the Altarians,and the Drengin.Some interesting things have happened though.The Terrans and Altarians are at war with each other(I tried to make peace with one of them,but they wouldn't take it),and I got the"Lucky Ranger"event.It's been my most eventful game yet,so it hasn't been dull much.

Reply #37 Top

 

This I didn't know existed what is the game then the Dread lords. Can you also give me the date when it came out. I guess what the question is what game is is  and when it came out. Like I'm using the Ultimate edition which is Twilight of the Arnor.

Reply #38 Top

Quoting admiralWillyWilber, reply 37

 

This I didn't know existed what is the game then the Dread lords. Can you also give me the date when it came out. I guess what the question is what game is is  and when it came out. Like I'm using the Ultimate edition which is Twilight of the Arnor.
It's just Dread Lords,and the manual read 2006.There may be some differences between the normal the first and Collectors editions,but I don't know.

Reply #39 Top

Oh then the Torians are usually the best on the game, but the Terrans are usually pretty good on any game.The Iconians are usually the second best on the Dread lords. I also don't think the Yor needs to be nerfed.

 

Reply #40 Top

Quoting admiralWillyWilber, reply 39

Oh then the Torians are usually the best on the game, but the Terrans are usually pretty good on any game.The Iconians are usually the second best on the Dread lords. I also don't think the Yor needs to be nerfed.

 
Yeah.My first game had the Torians dominating,but I won with alliances (including with them),and the Iconians have never been a problem in my games,then again they've never large either.Anyway glad you agree.

Reply #41 Top

I would like to see a purely aquatic race(s), even if only minors. Perhaps it would be cool if you wouldn't even know they are there and settle on the same planet and only find out about them when you research specific tech or when you get attacked by flying killer dolphins!

Maybe ideal temperature/gravity/pressure/atmosphere/whatever...:D

Settle on the same planet as someone else (mybe pre-historic minor race?) and start terraforming (and slowly killing them in the process because they are poisoned by too rich oxygen atmosphere) and they start sabotaging your terraformers etc... but if you don't kill them they can mine unobtanium for you!

If not playing a major role in the game, I would at least like to see more of those options when you colonize a planet (like ones with alien parasite pods in previous game)

Reply #42 Top

The closest thing I can think of working on the game is maybe different factions would be from different kind of planets.

I would mind being to be able to share planets. I can't figure out how to do this without changing the kind of game you are playing. If we were playing Alpha Century different factions could share a planet, but the whole game takes place on a planet. The way the game is played it would not work for different factions to share planets. The big reason why ideas don't get on the game. Is people come up with things that won't work on the game and give no explanation on how to do this, It might actually work in your head the problem is I'm not in your head. If you have a way to make this work please share. Otherwise there is no way this will end up on the game.

This could be done in a random event were you will be presented with choices on what to do.

Reply #43 Top

Quoting admiralWillyWilber, reply 42

The closest thing I can think of working on the game is maybe different factions would be from different kind of planets.

I would mind being to be able to share planets. I can't figure out how to do this without changing the kind of game you are playing. If we were playing Alpha Century different factions could share a planet, but the whole game takes place on a planet. The way the game is played it would not work for different factions to share planets. The big reason why ideas don't get on the game. Is people come up with things that won't work on the game and give no explanation on how to do this, It might actually work in your head the problem is I'm not in your head. If you have a way to make this work please share. Otherwise there is no way this will end up on the game.

This could be done in a random event were you will be presented with choices on what to do.

I think I know how this could work.Only allies could settle on the same planet.This may only work if some races can only settle in a certain planets(Like the an aquatic race could settle the the oceans of an allies planet.).Just a thought.

Reply #44 Top

We could build a biodomes to let races with different requirements to settle. Of course, we will lose more than they will gain, but it would be nice to let them shelter, or even use bonuses from out planet, to let them repopulate faster. IMHO that could even give a PLOT TWIST®™©, similar to one we had. Plus, Hearts of Iron alike "government in exile".

I was actually planning to propose that, but was thinking about details, and someone got ahead. :)

Reply #45 Top

I agree with the OP that very distinctive races adds a lot to replayability. It also makes for a more interesting strategy game when the other races are quite different opponents, with different ship designs along with varied strengths and weaknesses.

 

One thing I really liked from Galciv 2, was being able to trade with other races for their race specific techs, that you could not obtain any other way.

Reply #46 Top

Actually what I meant is the mechanics of the game. If all I had to worry about is morality, population, and influence then that's not a problem. The thing is how would the buildings work that was what I was talking about. If we are talking about conquering and assimulating then I would like to see that, and I don't have to worry about buildings.

Reply #47 Top

Quoting admiralWillyWilber, reply 46

Actually what I meant is the mechanics of the game. If all I had to worry about is morality, population, and influence then that's not a problem. The thing is how would the buildings work that was what I was talking about. If we are talking about conquering and assimulating then I would like to see that, and I don't have to worry about buildings.
You mean like let's say the you conquer an aquatic race on there planets you could build a aquatic structure?

Reply #48 Top

Other options may include a favored gravity.

 

Essentially, larger planets would have:

- More space, but better suited for higher gravity aliens

- Bonus for soldiering against lower gravity types maybe

 

In return, there could be tradeoffs, like the random number generator making fewer ideal planets for higher gravity races.

Reply #49 Top

Quoting SF1, reply 47


Quoting admiralWillyWilber, reply 46
Actually what I meant is the mechanics of the game. If all I had to worry about is morality, population, and influence then that's not a problem. The thing is how would the buildings work that was what I was talking about. If we are talking about conquering and assimulating then I would like to see that, and I don't have to worry about buildings.You mean like let's say the you conquer an aquatic race on there planets you could build a aquatic structure?

No what I was talking about is if you are sharing the same planet with a different race is how would building buildings work when that is limited anyways for instance You could only build 10 structures on a class 10 planet, but I noticed this was sparked when someone misunderstood what I was saying. I was not talking about sharing planets. I was talking that some factions evolved on different kind of planets so instead of being able to settle terrain planets they would be able to settle lets say barren world just as good, but would need to research Terran world to be able to settle Terran this would be a great option as long as it is not the main game. This would cause replayability because you would want to change between options back and forth.