vas SB rush

from Sins Forums

hi sins forum first time posting here since I have a problem and a question I like to discuss.

its about vas SB rush

 

their is a big problem with it I have a hard time figuring how to deal with.

its really tough to go against a good vas player at start, especially if you 2 start very close to each other.

 

the thing is in a 5s you dont necessarily know whats your opponent race is neither you know what the distance between you too and what planets are between you, sometimes it can be big planets which will block a SB rush but usually it wont be that way.

I dont always go building a lab right at the start of a game sometimes I wait for my scout to show what planets are around me especially if I am advent.

and even if I do build a military lab at the start as TEC for example, I dont rush and go first fleet supply right on and start spamming frigates, doing that can even be harmful to me if my opponent have some distance from me or their are planets to colonize near my home and a big planet between me and my enemy.

this way of playing is all good and works fine with a advent or TEC opponent but against a vas it will get you killed.

 

for example if their are 2 moon/dwarf planets between you and the vas player he can rush a colonizer cap ship and a SB to the dwarf next to your home planet. (even if their is a big planet near the vas homeworld volc/ice etc.. and past it a moon/dwarf who is next to your home planet he can do that too)

meanwhile his colonizer will kill your new planet which will not manage to get past 400 hp by the time his cap arrives... kill it and colonize it.

at that point the SB build speed will increase dramatically and if thats not enough with 2 constructors the vas player can make 2 repair bays built in no time.

if you didnt start spamming frigates non stop right on the start your pretty much finished.

 

a good vas player will not lose such an opportunity he will go right in and fast scuttling his cap ship factory or frigate factory (which is even faster to scuttle) make 2 military labs research SB and do what is writen above.

 

what am I doing wrong ? I am not a noob I am playing sins for 2 years, I have always had a hard time fighting vassaries, myself I can play vas pretty well but many times I want to play the other races and get fucked if I am unlucky enough to fight a good vassari.

strategy
8,939 views 4 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

If im TEC or Vasari i like to build LRF, they will have no problem dealing with an early game SB.

And once you deal with it you are in very good shape relative to him.

Marza, Prog, and the Egg all have good damage abilities for early game that will aid your fleet.

You really cant go wrong fleeting up asap in 5v5 if your not in eco spot...

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

if you didnt start spamming frigates non stop right on the start your pretty much finished.

Scout well in the start so you know whether to spam frigates up in anticipation of a SB rush or whether you have some breathing room to expand and colonize a bit. As Advent getting early carriers can be an option and as Loyalist, mine control upgrade is a perfect counter to the SB rush with mines (which they sometimes do thinking you'll just be countering with LFs).

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

You can almost always determine your role simply by looking at map startup...if you are frontliner or suicide, you should be spamming LFs as fast as possible....you MUST build at least one lab ASAP so you can increase your fleet supply...I'd suggest a military (just to be on the safe side) but as you become more confident, you can lead with 1 civ as TEC for modular architecture instead...

You should be building LFs almost constant...start with researching nothing in the beginning other than that fleet upgrade...focus on just building LFs non stop and colonizing that roid and moon by you....if you are building LFs non stop, you should be able to stop any early Orky rush on one of your planets...

The real trick is anticipating what neutral planets the Vasari player is going to SB...the SB will build faster, and it is essential you have your LFs there before the Vasari player gets there and tries to dominate it...once the SB is built, you may never be able to get that planet back...

If an SB starts building and you know you won't kill it, immediately tech up for carriers and run your LFs through enemy territory...destroy military labs or frigate factories, harass them, force them to SB their other worlds or invest in frigates, anything that draws resources from their newly built SB...if they instead try to SB your planets while your LFs are busy, well, that's what the carriers are for...use those bombers to prevent any SBs on your territory, and when you have enough you can use those bombers to destroy SBs on the enemies own turf...

As the early game goes on, they will try to use either corvettes or fighters to deal with your bombers...in either case, running a few flak or having some fighters on your own may be enough...if they build corvettes, have a mixture of bombers and fighters with the fighters focusing on the corvettes...if they build fighters, you may be able to go all bombers, and have some flak microed to try and shoot down their fighters (this is tricky though as the flak have to avoid the SB)...the only player I've seen micro their fighters around my flak is Doci (other players may do it, but I haven't seen it), so usually you can shoot down some fighters without having the flak too close to the SB (as the fighters fly all over the place)...

I usually build my bombers and keep them at my HW...that way, the Vasari player won't see them just by scouting by frontier worlds...you have to jump a ton in at once, you can't just slowly slip them in because that gives the Vasari player time to react...if they are busy chasing your LFs and don't realize you are amassing bombers, they will prioritize building more SBs over building fighters/corvettes and may not even upgrade the hull on the SB(s) you are prepping to wipe first...

One final note...once you know your Vasari player has minelayers, you should research flak...5 or so scouts and 2-4 flak ships should always be kept on had so you can quickly clear any mines that are laid...that is, of course, assuming you aren't AL....

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Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Very good post for new players, Sel. One karma to you!