Ship-to-ship combat - another thinkbox thread

I'd really like it if they include a proper tactical combat system as well as the normal 'auto-resolve' method that's been used in the previous games. Basically, something like a little game of Homeworld or maybe like MoO2's tactical combat (or Fallen Enchantress's, to use a current Stardock game as an example).

The ship-to-ship combat has always been one of the major low points of GalCiv to me. Then again, it is basiaclly how Civilization does it - but I never cared for Civ's combat, either. Give me MoO2 or Fallen Enchantress combat any day.

Well, the Tactical Combat thread (https://forums.galciv3.com/448996/page/3/#3405445) is the biggest one on this subforum by a significant margin already. It's a bit of a hot issue...

Hot issue ? Never in a zillion years - its the usual nonsense trying to turn GalCiv into some kind of brain dead shoot-em-up.

The latter will never happen, there is not a cats chance in hell that Brad will allow GalCiv to join the shoot-em-up idiocy. It is a Strategy Game, and it will stay that way - punching fresh air over the issue like some old over the hill Boxer will never change that. GalCiv is a TBS game, and that is its Core Strength, they will never change that.

They might enhance the Tactic Combat Box to keep up the delution of RTS combat, fine keeps the brain dead happy, but they will never - not in a zillion years - turn this into a Core shoot-em-up either directly or by some slight of hand. To even think they would do that is to believe in Santa Claus.

I don't think anybody wants a shoot-em-up part. But playing admiral and give commands to your fleet is not what I would call a shooter.

But that's not the issue here.

I'm entirly in favor of more unique weapon (and other) technologies. I see no point in doing the complete laser research before I can advance to a better weapon type. I like the idea of some technologies discovered randomly. The propability increases with your over all tech level or in the levels you have in other disciplines related to the tech in question.

Means: having Laser 1 means a 10% change to discover the basics of another beam weapon type, on level 2 you got a 25% change (per turn) to discover it and sooner or later you will get the tech, but you don't know when.

Of course, this is also an issue for balancing.

I really hope they will change the damage model. As far as I remember, in GalCiv 2, there was a 1:1 model. My beam strength against his shields, my missiles against his ECM and my mass drivers against his armor. Not very realistic.

You could use off-type defenses too (ECM vs Beam, Armor vs Missiles, etc.). It was just less effective.

Ok, I am going to bring up that Gratuitous Space Battles model, again...

In GSB, you set the formations of your fleet beforehand, but then the battles are autoresolved.  GSB focuses more on balancing designs to see which combinations of systems will best augment your fleet, and replaying a given scenario with your different designs until you strike the best balance versus a given enemy, which really isn't that much different than the GalCiv situation.  Your design choices can be influenced to a degree by what your current 'major' opponent is fielding against you, and what technologies you have available.

I'm thinking that introducing a 'formation' mechanic (optional of course) into GalCivIII could be interesting.  Of course, this could also introduce some other new design choices (i.e. a point defense screening frigate that shoots any missiles that pass within it's field of fire, to protect the bigger weapons platforms), but that would be MUCH more in depth than the current model, where a ship is essentially almost soley responsible for it's own defense.

When a fleet is formed, ships would be autoassigned to a 'default' formation/position, but a player could open a window and shuffle ships around, so as to designate the formation ships form into when entering a battle.

Of course, no formation survives contact with a similarly powered enemy, so once ships enter the fray formations will begin to disintegrate, some ships might lose some speed so they can't keep up due to damage, etc.

GSB really is rather enjoyable to watch, and you can 'fast forward' battles as well to complete them faster.  I'd love to see something along those lines in GalCiv III.  The 'whirling dervishes' in GalCiv II are kinda cool to watch, but it could be much cooler...

In my book, what'd be real cool would be if Positech and Stardock could come together and play off of each other's strengths, i.e. Stardock provides the universe, tech progression, etc, and Positech provides the space combat model.  But I'm sure both companies like keeping their own games 'in house'.  I can dream though...

I like tj's suggestion. One thing that kinda bugs me about combat is the camera view. I almost always leave it in top-down because the other views are kinda erratic. I would like to see a way to designate a ship in fleet and use an over the shoulder view of the battle from that view. Used with a set formation at the beginning of the battle should give a fairly stable and exciting view to watch while the battle unfolds.

I think the assumption is that if the alien ship is close enough to be in sensor range and visible, that your ships sensors can scan the craft and see the details.

Yep. Also if you didn't have any information about the enemy fleet, you wouldn't be able to make any meaning full choices about how you engage them.

This series is a TBS game, and it should stay that way... However remember this game is NOT set is stone, I advise you to bring better TBS ideas to the table like cards or whatever you think would be a good idea. Sure cards ain't the greatest idea I could come up with but it fits TBS games better then any 4X RTS game. My point is this entire topic is irrelevant because brainless shooting conflicts with everything GC, strategy and effective marketing stands for. If you don't like TBS or 4X RTS, then go play your dead space because this doesn't seem to be your type of game.

I like your recognizing systems idea OP and I definitely support broadening weapons and defenses.

Id just like too add that a strafing run system would be much more fun and realistic than the tiny circles movements in GC2.

A workable system, would add variety and surprise.

Sounds Great to me. There are a ton of ways to make warfare more interesting and fun that don't involve turning it into an RTS game.

I strongly support that. This complete lack of ship specialization and any cooperation between ships of a fleet was annoying. Fleets in GC2 were only to stack attack points, nothing else. A real fleet would never act this way. I see that tactical combat is something discussable and nothing easy to implement, but this solution would give at least SOME influence for the player on the outcome.