Best Strategie now: September 2013 on Expert or heavier


First I want to say that English is not my native language (its German) but you should understand me.

My experience:

I play Empire because I believe they are much stronger then the Kingdom due to the Curse of Cersia Spell if you choose as a trait the one which enables you to turn all shards into death shards.

The strongest hero for this is either the mage or the assassin: Both make very much spell damage altough the mage has cheaper spells (which is great) and can make very much damage with the fire ball spell (each round). No sovereign can do more damage with one turn then a mage. The problem is that the mage is much weaker then the assassin at the beginning.

But thats all which I believe that I already surely know (I hope you agree to my opinion).

The question for me ist everything else:

- Which race should I take? (I believe humans are best with their henchmen)

- Which traits should the sovereign learn? (As mage I take the one with 25 % more accuracy and avoidance, 10 % more initiative, the staff with the +3 mana/kill, water, hard with +1 life and poison resistance, 2 mana per round, + 25 % spell damage)

- Starting strategy?? (I start researching the first 3 in civilisation and the one with streets between towns, then the magic tree: shards, henchmen, better shards, last the warefare with +1 army, then civilisation again for better research, after that magic for more mana and crystal; for my army I wait until I have the first henchman, which becomes a defender, then I train mages with the ice staff and make a second henchman as a second defender: so my army consists of my sovereign, two henchmen as defenders to block the enemy and the rest as ice-mages; all towns exept one become conclaves, the one with the most essences becomes a fortress and I try to cast the spells with more initiative and additionally fire damage on it for my ice-mages)

Thank you for your help.

PS: There are two bugs which are very annoying: The +1 bonus per shard for the mancor race don't work and the +1 avoidance per level of the champion-armor-legs also don't work.

24,481 views 25 replies
Reply #1 Top


Race - if you want henchmen you have to take Atarian. (your strategy seems to build on them) I like henchmen a lot also. :)

 

Traits - When you ask about traits, you don't seem to take any magic school as a mage - perhaps I'm misunderstanding? (It might also be easier to discuss if you split Faction choices and Sovereign choices.)

 

As for starting strategy I try to rush Pioneers to grab good tiles and resources/shards. That is IMHO the most important aspect of the start. The land you take, will be denied your opponents. When I do this on a large map, I really need Towns for their faction-bonuses and more than one Fortress to keep unrest down.

In my experience I focus more on Civilization early, so the Sov and Champions will run around and fight a lot before I get Henchmen and Icemages. This way my cities progress a bit better, but will get the Henchmen/mages later than you. Not sure which is better.

 

 

 

Reply #2 Top


I now think your strategy of bee-lining to Henchmen quickly is better with one possible addition. If you complete Charms (in Magic) and started Crystal production early, all Henchmen should get the magic gear to improve them +1 Init, +1 Hp, +1 Fire & Cold Attack.

 

In my current game I waited for horses (as they are really expensive tu buy in the shop); both the research and production of horses. That wait delayed the Henchmen unnecessarily.

 

Hopefully there are many quests on the maps, otherwise there will be a Fame-shortage. I would like to wait for 1-2 Champions to bring City buffs on the Henchmen (as my Mage Sov alrady has 2 of them). Ideally I want the Henchmen to be trained with Aura of Grace (Air 2) for +1 Ini/essence, Heart of Fire (Fire 1) for +1 Fire Attack/essence, Aura of Vitality (Life 2) for +1 Hp/essence and possibly Aura of Might (Earth 1) for +1 Def/essence. 

 

As soon it's possible I'll make 3 Henchmen for my Sov and 2 for my main and secondary Champion. This takes time and my Sov/Champions will continue to fight monsters of course.

Sovereign #1; Defender with +10% Xp to army, +25% Xp and +3 Defense to army. Traits; +10/15 Hp (and Plate), bee-line over Stun to +5/10/15 Spell resistance to army.  

Sovereign #2; Mage with +10% Xp to army, +25% Xp and Life. Traits; Life 2 and Compassion (+50% Healing), +Army heal/season, First Aid, Summon Whisp and Lightbringer - and after that aim for +1 Casting time (for 1 turn Fireball from Annointed by Fire).

Sovereign #3; Warrior with +10% Xp to army, +25% Xp and +3 Defense to army. Traits; +3/4/5 Attack, +10 Hp, Blade Rush, Reap III and Bloodthirsty.

 

 

The champions will each get a Mage-healer (#2). (I make both first Champion and quest Champion from the mod Champion Bonanza into Warriors - so they benefit greatly from a healer that doesn't halve the Xp.)

 

The Henchmen should get Tutelage (+25% Xp) when/if you can afford it.

Reply #3 Top

Beastlord mage is powerful.  Won at Ridiculous with Master Quest before I was able to train any normal units.  Had an army of cave bears.

Horses are important!

Swords available from wildlands are a big help - Sword of the Glacier from Vetrar lets you cast Blizzard which can be used to destroy an enemy garrison

Sunder spell kills elementals quickly.

Reply #4 Top

- Which race should I take? (I believe humans are best with their henchmen)
- Which traits should the sovereign learn? (As mage I take the one with 25 % more accuracy and avoidance, 10 % more initiative, the staff with the +3 mana/kill, water, hard with +1 life and poison resistance, 2 mana per round, + 25 % spell damage)
- Starting strategy??

Part of the fun of the game is that there are a very large number of workable strategies, although some work faster than others. If you like henchmen, play with henchmen, and work out how to play the best game to those strengths. Your ideas for research etc. all sound fine. In general I think most people would agree that the civilization tree is most important because it gets you roads and increased army size, among other things, but there are some important techs in the other trees as well,  e.g. increased army size, leather armour and mounted troops are all important techs available in Warfare.

In general my approach with this game (and with all strategy games) is that I want to do things as fast as possible. If you can get a development lead in the start of the game you should win. So I focus on buildings and research which will get me an advantage I can use as quickly as possible. Which building or research that is exactly depends on the situation; sometimes I need mana, sometimes I need gold, sometimes I have access to crystal but not iron, and I will adjust my research accordingly; there's no point researching metal armour if I don't have iron, but if I have plenty of crystal it's worth researching magic items in the Magic tree so I can give those to my troops instead.

It's always worth designing your own troops rather than accepting the pre-designed ones. This is especially true if you're in the situation I described, where you have large amounts of one resource but almost none of another.

Reply #5 Top

I tryed somthing else the last days and it works much better:

Race: Tarth => at the beginning you have a small army, so you benefit from the +3/+3 bonus, but must important is the double attack, it is awesome (death enemies make no damage...)

Race-Traits: +10 % initiative, +25 % accuracy/avoidance and the 4 spell books: the arcane monolith is great because you need no pioneers

Sovereign: Life magic (growth on the city enables them to get early to the next city level which gives a great bonus) and Researcher (+20 % faster research)

 

Strategy:

At the beginning I can continuously produce pioneers due to the high growth. With them I establish as many new citys as possible. First I resarch in the civilisation tree the second path with the workroom and the both in the first path to have streets between my citys. After that I change to the magic tree: I want to be able to build the shards for high mana income and after that the ice/fire staffs to build ice-mages (better then fire because more monsters are vulnerable to ice). Of course I also go for higher crystal income (for the first mage unit I usually trade). With two or three mage units I can easily kill most monsters to gain experience.

My sovereign becomes a leader and learns researching first and after that accuracy/speed for my army. His research bonus helps greatly at the beginning to receive the mages first.

While exploring the country I place as many arcane monoliths as possible (also on possible city places to prevent the enemy to occupy them). One city with at least 2 essences become a fortress (with fire attack and initiative spell on it after buying the fire/air books). The rest becomes conclaves for faster research. When I am able to build my ice-mages and crystal and mana income is high enough I change researching to the civilisation tree to get larger army units (the full path until 6 units) and after that I go to the warefare tree for wargs (+2 initiative) and more armys.

When I can afford it and the production time is well I make my own ice-mages: I give them all + initiative and +fire/ice-damage items and as traits of course the one with +2 initiative. The goal is to boost the initiative of my ice-mages as high as possible to ensure that they always attack first.

My sovereign learns only air magic and here all 5 points. Air magic is great: +25 % experience for my sovereign, cloud walking enables me to go everywhere in my empire (great to come to an enemy army before it attacks on of my citys) and with the twister spell I can easily defeat a strong army (splitting it means that I can kill the troops seperatly).

 

Remember that my native language is German but I think you can understand me.

 

 

 

Reply #6 Top

For being german, your darn good at english!  I wouldnt have been able to tell if not for these two little sentences.

 

"Both make very much spell damage"

It should be said something like;

Both have a lot of spell damage.

and the other one is;

"(I hope you agree to my opinion)"

You should say "I hope you agree with my opinion."

 

"with" means that we are together in the conversation, or your with me at the bar!

 

Cheers! Enjoy the game.

Reply #7 Top

I always like anti-magic highly armored armies. I start as armorer and cast Stone skin and Natural cloak so I have good defence and high resistance. My regular units are: early - with sindarian stuffs, then mostly horse archers. Heroes are tanks with high defence and resistance.

When I develop cities I consider many factors. Fortresses give the best troops and on 4th level give -10 to unrest and on 5th -30 to unrest in all cities. So if I wish to have/conquer many cities, I need many fortresses early in the game so that they could earlier grow to levels 4-5. Towns give additional hitpoints to all troops and additional production to all my kingdom. Hit points are available at 3 and production at 4 and 5 level so towns need to be grown also as soon as possible.  So its important to build fortresses and towns on tiles with 4+ food so that they could grow to at least 4 level. Its good to build fortresses on tiles with more essense to have more upgrades. As for conclaves - they just give more research and nothing special (imho) at high levels. So if I see a tile with less food, so there I develop a conclave.

Typically I build: Town, Fortress, Fortress, Conclave, Fortress, Town, Conclave... repeat (Fortress, Town, Conclave).

I also suggest the wonder-hunting strategy to get more fame and personal proud :) First wonder is merchantcross bazar so we need a Town as soon as possible and research civic techs. Second wonder is very useful Great mill. I always build it in my fortress to increase production. To hunt for other wonders we also need to research civic techs a.s.a.p.

And I agree - henchmen are incredibly useful. First, unfortunately, high level heroes are rather weak with only average equipment and traits, while I can breed a henchman  even with more traits that no hero can afford. Second, henchmen can supply equipment to sovereign or heroes which otherwise is incredibly expensive. Third, henchmen can solve all domestic problems, such as unrest, research or money shortage. Forth, they are more available than heroes, just 20 fame, no need to gain 400, 800... The only one bad thing is that when you start mass production of henchmen, you should be prepared that you don't need any more true heroes. Imho its enough to have 3-4 heroes (with all types of magic).

Reply #8 Top

Quoting webusver, reply 7
Its good to build fortresses on tiles with more essense to have more upgrades. As for conclaves - they just give more research and nothing special (imho) at high levels. So if I see a tile with less food, so there I develop a conclave.

In most aspects I agree with your reasoning around cities on food-tile-yields. Fortresses need to grow quickly to give the unrest or troop-training buffs early.

As you write, the highest essence-tile should IMHO have a Fortress (for better troop buffs or Set in stone etc) but the second highest I would rather have a Conclave on. The reason is a special Conclave-building that gives +1 mana/essence - not sure what it's called but some kind of Shard-Temple which I think you could only have one of (1 per faction). And being at work I cannot check the name (also hoping that we'll have a Wiki soon).

 

Reply #9 Top

Quoting NeoNick7, reply 8
As you write, the highest essence-tile should IMHO have a Fortress (for better troop buffs or Set in stone etc) but the second highest I would rather have a Conclave on. The reason is a special Conclave-building that gives +1 mana/essence - not sure what it's called but some kind of Shard-Temple which I think you could only have one of (1 per faction). And being at work I cannot check the name (also hoping that we'll have a Wiki soon).

The reason to build a city early is to grow it to 4-5 level early, or to hunt for a wonder, or to have better troops. All bonuses from cities can be classified as evolutionary or revolutionary. Better troops, more hitpoints and global reduction of unrest are revolutionary bonuses and can not be achieved otherwise, so these bonuses' achievement should be a priority. Evolutionary bonuses can be compensated by quantity of lower level bonuses, that makes them less useful. Imho, conclaves mostly have evolutionary bonuses.

Reply #10 Top

 

For being german, your darn good at english!  I wouldnt have been able to tell if not for these two little sentences.

 

"Both make very much spell damage"

It should be said something like;

Both have a lot of spell damage.

and the other one is;

"(I hope you agree to my opinion)"

You should say "I hope you agree with my opinion."

 

"with" means that we are together in the conversation, or your with me at the bar!

 

Cheers! Enjoy the game.

 Sorry for my mistakes and thank you for helping me to improve my English knowledge. I looked up in the online dictionary. Both is possible: to agree to something and to agree with something. Of course I meant the second expression. I mixed this up...  (but English still is very easy in comparison to German)

 Back to topic: Henchmen look great but they become weaker with higher levels in comparison to regular troops. So they only get (normally) 2 life per level while a toop of 6 units gets 12. This is a great difference and makes regular troops much more viable. Also it's easier to rise the (higher starting) damage of regular units by simply double the number of units from 3 to 6 and giving new troops the city fire enchantment. Thus I play Tarth now.

By the way: I spot that my ice-mages got a new trait at higher level (9 or 10). I believe it was called "endurance". It gave them an additional +1 life per level. Can somebody explain this to me? Do all troops get some additional trait later?

Reply #11 Top

I'm not aware of troops getting extra traits at higher levels that they didn't have when they were first created. Either I just never noticed, or what you may have seen is later trained troops being better than earlier trained troops because you built more troop enhancing buildings in your fortress, or because you cast one of the troop enhancing spells on your city.

Reply #12 Top


One of the three improvements for Fortress level 3 is Infirmiary. This gives the "Endurance-trait (+1 Hp/lvl) to new troops. :)

I think the trait is only given to new troops, but from your story it seems it may be added to old troops also!?

Reply #13 Top

Quoting NeoNick7, reply 12
I think the trait is only given to new troops, but from your story it seems it may be added to old troops also!?

Fortress bonuses are applied only to newly created units. It's Town which gives additional HP to all your units.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting NeoNick7, reply 8

The reason is a special Conclave-building that gives +1 mana/essence - not sure what it's called but some kind of Shard-Temple which I think you could only have one of (1 per faction). And being at work I cannot check the name (also hoping that we'll have a Wiki soon).

There's a bulding like the one you're saying, and that's the Temple of Essence (Cleric - Shrine - Temple of Essence), allowed 1 for faction and only for Kingdoms, but it's not Conclave-only, so it can be built in any city with high essence. Not gamebreaking for sure.

The Conclave-only building that gives +Mana/essence is the Herbalist (Herbalist - Apothecary - Alchemist - Alchemistic Lab) and it's not limited to 1 for faction; conclaves should have several essences for this alone.

 

Reply #15 Top


Ah, good to know. (I had not realized the pre-requisite-buildings and made the wrong conclusion when I couldn't build it in other cities.)

I will make the Temple of Essence in my highest essence city then.

 

Reply #16 Top


After much more trys I now favor the following strategy:

(first I must say that I play on the smallest map with 11 enemies on the 2nd highest word- and enemy-difficulty)

1. I take Tarth as race (the double attack is awesome); my hero becomes a scientist with earth and life magic, 500 gold, +1 life/level, escape from battle and clumsy; race traits are fortune teller basin, fast, accurate and no armor. Reasons: I want to raise research as much as possible, life magic gives call of sovereign with +2 growth to the city and earth magic +1 material, the troops should hit (double attack reduces accuracy) and attack fast (who attacks first wins, armor reduces speed)

2. a ) I settle on a 3-3-3 terrain (if possible I found a 2nd city): Reason: If I have luck and get heros with air and fire magic I can produce very strong troops with +5 to initiative and +5 fire damage. The goal is to raise the city as much as possible to level 4. I only make conclaves with +1 essence and +2 crystal income. Crystal is rare and necessary for magic items.

2. b ) Alternative if there is no 3-3-3 I settle on a terrain with high materials like 2-5-1. Changes to my strategy: I must produces mages (archers are too weak without the firedamage) and I build no alchemist laboratorium first because I need the crystals for the mages and productivity is already high with 5 materials.

My experience: Alternative b is the better one: 2 grains are enough to raise a city to level 4 (more is not necessary). Remember that you can cast a spell which gives an additional grain! At the end you have either 3+1+5=9 materials (on 3-3-3) or 5+1+2=8 materials (on 2-5-1). The difference is not great. But with 2-5-1 you are much faster to have all necessary buildings for food, research and production (due to the fact that you can build the food buildings much faster you can compensate the fewer grains). At the end I am about 20 turns faster to be able to build mages! And with 2-5-1 I must not rely to get a fire hero!

3. Taxes are set to 0. I spend the money for treaties of peace so I must not build troops and can produce buildings. The sovereign and the heroes become leaders. The heroes stay in the city to reduce unrest. The sovereign learns the arruracy/speed tree to ensure that my troops hit.

4. I go for the civilisation tree on the bottom first to raise production. I must have the great mill (+25 % production). I save my crystals to get the alchemist laboratory. This building boosts my production (+1 material per essence). In the last game my prodution raised from 100 to 213!

In the last game I reached this phase at turn 113.

5. Now I am ready for producing troops. I either produce archers or mages (depends on having fire magic: if yes => archers). When I reach this point I am unstoppable.

Does anybody have a better idea?

Reply #17 Top

Quoting csac1979, reply 16


Does anybody have a better idea?

Yes.

Well, I like your approach, but you could tweak it some more:

- Tarth isn't great, imho. Mancers (move 3) or Altar (Henchmen) are better.

- Escape from battle isn't really needed. Pick Brilliant or Procipinee's Crown.

- Many heroes have Earth magic, so I wouldn't pick it for my Sov. Inspiration (Water) gives a bigger boost in the early game, and Water has much better spells overall.

- Fortune teller basin: is that Enchanters? In that case, carry on!

- 3-3-3 or 2-5-1: you need some luck to get either of those. By the way, do you only build one city?

 

In general, I don't build many troops, but try to conquer the map with one powerful army, the Stack of Doom approach. But I like your strategy as well.

Reply #18 Top


1. The henchmen are as weak as the heroes. They make less damage and have much less life then a troop.

2. I need escape. The beasts are too strong for my starting army and I want to pick up some items.

3. Earth magic is by far better then water magic. You need the highest possible production to get all necessary buildings. You get the +1 research easily by building the first research building (working room).

4. In a small map I can normally build 2 cities. I don't travel around so I don't need more moving (and +1 isn't great, is it?). I wait in my city until I have crystal (level 4 conclave) and can build mages.

By the way: What is a stack of Doom???

5. I know 2-5-1 is rare (I didn't get one yesterday in about 10 trys). Just take the field with the highest materials!

 PS: Please remember that my native language is German. Of course I have the game in german. So some terms may have different terms (example: Wahrsagerbecken = fortune teller basin => this should be the correct translation due to the dictionary; if it is called "enchanters" in the english version this would be Verzauberer in german).

Reply #19 Top

1. Admittedly, I never play Altar myself :blush:  But they seem to be pretty popular on this forum. Mancer's +1 Move is great, though. But you play much more conservatively than I do.

2. I never 'steal' items from lairs. I also seldomly create custom factions. Anyway, that's all personal preference.

3. Unless you are 100% certain you're never going to cast any spell with your Sovereign, it is better to wait for your first hero to provide you with Earth magic. Enchanted Hammers is nice, but Earth does not provide near as much useful spells as Water. And Study does not replace Inspiration, you can have both.

4. A Stack of Doom is one very strong army, that can take out any opposing army without much difficulty. Mine usually consists of Oracle Ceresa, an Air Elemental and 2 Crow Demons.

'Enchanters' is the name of the trait. The building is called 'Scrying Pool', which literally means 'Wahrsagerbecken'.

Reply #20 Top

 

'Enchanters' is the name of the trait. The building is called 'Scrying Pool', which literally means 'Wahrsagerbecken'.

Short: You are right. I made a mistake.

Question: When (which turn) can you build your strong army to deal with the enemies?

To my opinion mages are the best choice because the AI builds troops with high armor. And for this I need crystal.

Reply #21 Top

Quoting csac1979, reply 20


Question: When (which turn) can you build your strong army to deal with the enemies?

To my opinion mages are the best choice because the AI builds troops with high armor. And for this I need crystal.

Well, I try to improve the army constantly. As soon as I have an Air Elemental, the army is pretty strong. I once won a tiny map on turn 27!

The Sovereign, Ceresa, is the most powerful unit. Every time she levels and/or gains a powerful spell like Mana Blast, the army will become stronger. If I am lucky enough to get a dragon or Consume Spirit (from the Gallowman), the game is won. Otherwise, it will involve a lot of tough battles.

Reply #22 Top

Dirge of Ceresa is a very strong spell indeed but hardly enough reason to play Resoln exclusively. All the factions have some amazing powers if used correctly, including the Kingdoms. I actually prefer Kingdoms because I play as a builder rather than a warmonger and the Kingdoms have the insanely strong Sovereign's Call spell from Life magic.

 

If you want to get good at the game and beat it on Expert and beyond the single most important tip is to always expand as quickly as possible. Produce Pioneers as soon as you've even somewhat cleared an area and keep building more - Pioneers, Pioneers, Pioneers. You should even settle areas that are still under threat from dangerous monsters - just put a few spearmen in the city and more often than not it will be enough to scare away the monsters (who very rarely attack settlements). For the entire early part of the game settling new cities is much more important than growing your existing ones.

Reply #23 Top

 

Well, I try to improve the army constantly. As soon as I have an Air Elemental, the army is pretty strong. I once won a tiny map on turn 27!

The Sovereign, Ceresa, is the most powerful unit. Every time she levels and/or gains a powerful spell like Mana Blast, the army will become stronger. If I am lucky enough to get a dragon or Consume Spirit (from the Gallowman), the game is won. Otherwise, it will involve a lot of tough battles.


 

I don't really understand you.

1. You play a mage, right?

2. Where do you get dragons?

3. What is a gallowman?

Edit: It seems that you suggest to play a mage as summoner? Is this hero really able to kill the strong beasts at the beginning? I got a summoner once and I spot that I only can have ONE of the elementels in my army. That is not really strong.

By the way: This poison spell can have each race. But it is only really strong if you combine it togehter with the transform trait (any shard in a death shard).

Reply #24 Top

Quoting csac1979, reply 23


I don't really understand you.

1. You play a mage, right?

2. Where do you get dragons?

3. What is a gallowman?

Edit: It seems that you suggest to play a mage as summoner? Is this hero really able to kill the strong beasts at the beginning? I got a summoner once and I spot that I only can have ONE of the elementels in my army. That is not really strong.

By the way: This poison spell can have each race. But it is only really strong if you combine it togehter with the transform trait (any shard in a death shard).

1: Yes. Mages are probably the strongest class

2: If you have researched 'Dance with dragons', you can build a Dragon lair. But you need an existing lair to build it and those are very rare. You might not even have one on a small map. There's also a quest that rewards a dragon.

3: The Gallowman is a lvl 7 hero. You can only recruit him if you play Empire. He's got a very strong spell called 'Consume Spirit', which I usually Spirit Steal from him.

I'm not suggesting you should do anything. Just enjoy the game :) I am just sharing my favorite strategy.

I often play Resoln. Resoln's sovereign is Ceresa, who is a Summoner. I do believe it is easier to beat the game with the Summoner profession, as you can start with a 4 unit army (with the Shadow Warg) instead of 3 units.

The Summoner line is a bit weird though, as the Air Elemental is very strong, but all other Elementals are mediocre. On the other hand, the special spells Necromancy II or the Lightbringer are pretty good as well.

Reply #25 Top

Quoting mfrast, reply 6
your darn good at english

IRONY ALERT