No, actually it's been quite repetitive for several pages now....

...a to and fro about ppm and CO2 that's probably driven EVERYONE to distraction.....

...particularly when laced with 'details' such as..."In the North there is only 1 glaciers left: Greenland."

I personally have walked on one 'in the North' and it wasn't anywhere near Greenland .... JAFOCHECK

Ok... there are a few smaller ones in Canada, Alaska, Norway... but they are extremely small compared to Greenland (or are they not ?). I wrote that in context of the Ice Age Glaciers which were huuuuge and spanned thousands of kilometers and had enough capacity to influence the Gulf Stream by massive melts.

The second picture from this page shows a relation between glaciation and low levels of CO2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_glaciation

I think that's interesting and informative. Climate deniers seem to think that an ice age is possible even during the current elevated levels of CO2 (and hence elevated temperatures) but to me that seems to contradict evidence.

Anyway enough numbers.

I'm also disappointed in politics. The Dutch government (my own government) doesn't seem to be interested in investing in non-carbon-based fuels. I think it's just incredible how short-sighted politicians are. We Dutch should be on the forefront of change, after all we have a lot to lose ! (namely: our entire country). It would be such a shame if the place where I live now (slighlty below sea level... yeah really) won't exist anymore in the near future (a few hundred years).

You see, it took the Dutch many centuries to claim land from the sea, bit by bit, piece by piece the Dutch built dams and dikes, pumped the water out and created fertile land for agriculture and cities.

But we're doing nothing now and that means that we are about to give it all back to the ocean... you just can't fight a future sea level rise of 100 meters, no matter how much money you throw at it. But even a rise of just 10 meters will already be disastrous for my country... the whole Western part, where most of the industries and all of the harbours are, will be flooded.

I can't help myself .....

Nor I...

Yeah... well just look what happens if all the ice melts. Most of the antarctic will be flooded as well ...

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/09/rising-seas/if-ice-melted-map

It's a neat map. You can view all the contents (and Europe too).

I heard your country plans to build a big mountain, like 2000 meters high. Isn't it an emergency preparation?

Oh that  I don't know if 16 million people will all fit in there.

Well... maybe by that time there's going to be cheap space travel, we can all move to the Moon, no worries about the sea or about climate change there. We Dutch used to be very good at colonizing, maybe we can put our experience to good use.

When I think of conspiracy theories, I tend more towards who killed Kennedy.  This is more a matter of common sense.  People have to show the usefulness of their job if they want to stay employed.

NASA doing a 180 on the climate of the US inside two years is simple historical fact.  If you wish to find a better explanation than retrieving some of their rapidly shrinking funding, have at it.

Statistics showing what you want them to show is true, but we're talking about the same dude, with the same viewpoint, showing two opposite temperature trends from the same information.  James Hanson has been what many would call an environmentalist for a very long time, and he was head of the department for the duration.  He gave the report personally, he headed up the operations leading and following it.  He only retired this last spring.

There is actually a very simple explanation. Unlike in political or religious circles, you can deny facts and their implication only so long before you lose all credibility as a scientist. And even the most conservative religious organizations like Catholic church that burned Bruno for speaking the truth have to give in after a few hundred years and admit, for example... yeah... you know, the Sun is sort of the center of solar system, and not the Earth as written in Bible. Probably just a typo, though - everything else is undiluted truth. 

That's why you find no credible climatologist that would deny Climate Change, and only a very small minority that doubt the decisive human influence on this phenomenon. The evidence gathered during last five years is overwhelming. 

To some extent this is true... there's a lot of more-or-less useless science going on, and yes sometimes it is just to keep a researcher busy for a while. But that doesn't mean that all of it is useless - there's actually a lot of cool stuff being done... like 10% or so is useful and the rest is ... well in the early days researchers could work for years on a subject and then they could publish one major, magnificent piece of work. Nowadays researchers are judged on their "productivity" and how is that measured: by the number of articles they publish. But usually what you get is lots and lots of small more-or-less useless work just to keep the numbers up. Not because they want to, but because they have to. And there is only some nice work.

Jafo, any chance we can get a "facepalm", "broken record", or "beating a dead horse" digicon?

Australian ministers: We’ve had just about enough of this “socialism masquerading as environmentalism”

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/11/11/australian-ministers-weve-had-just-about-enough-of-this-socialism-masquerading-as-environmentalism/

Yeah... each is waiting for the other, blaming the other and nothing ever happens. Shame really, we are humans because we have a good mind and we can predict the future... but in a democracy that future is a mere 4 years.

The following is truly absurd. There's not only ridiculous things going on on the denial side, but also on the other side.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2012/09/27/100-million-examples-of-global-warming-absurdity/

Hoewever, if you don't believe scientists and modeling, then maybe you could believe this person:

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/11/10/in-wake-of-typhoon-haiyan-actor-george-clooney-declares-global-warming-skeptics-to-be-stupid-and-ridiculous-watch-video/

He's been around, seen a lot of the world, doesn't he know what he's talking about...

Ok this looks great. How to talk to a skeptic. Of course skeptics don't buy any of the answers, otherwise they wouldn't be a skeptic.

http://grist.org/series/skeptics/

Just add tears to my icon....

That'll suffice....;)

so much truth in such a small statement!

One of the biggest contributors to Global Warming ....good thing the Liberals bend over backwards to protect her income.

I guess I can hope that was sarcasm.

Hope is the last thing you lose, careful with how you use it.

Yes it was sarcasm.

The only celebrity I take seriously is Schwarzenegger... because he's an American from Europe ... and because he has defeated lots of cgi-animated robots and saved the world more times than I can count ... one more time shouldn't be a problem for him ^^

This mentions the ultimum game:

http://ariresearch.org/new-economy/the-psychology-of-economics

I think that's an example of how irrational and stupid people can really be. They rather lose something themselves than to let the other person get away relatively better than they.

If Europe would invest a lot lot lot of money in measures to reduce CO2 for example, the whole world would become a better place. Everybody wins. But Europe pays and therefore it's perceived as inequal and nothing's done.

We should really be more single-minded than this - the only thing that matters is our survival. It doesn't matter if it costs money and if other don't want to participate. I think we (Europeans) should simply do what needs to be done - not for the rest of the world, but first and foremost: for ourselves, so that we will survive. It's a bonus if the rest of the world will be saved, too.

This is a psychologist who's investigating the reasons why people don't do anything.

http://science.time.com/2013/08/19/in-denial-about-the-climate-the-psychological-battle-over-global-warming/

In the following you can find a paragraph about the myth that if 2 people have the same information, they'll come to the same conclusion... which they don't

http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/persuasive-techniques/

Of course that's nothing new ...

Also interesting, might apply to some politicians as wel:

http://nymag.com/news/features/money-brain-2012-7/

I'm thinking of the US of course, which acts pretty selfishly in the world. The biggest pollutor (CO2), and they just don't care about anything...

Perhaps it is in our nature to deny something that's bad, really bad.

History has examples of that ... even the bible has an example of that ... it had to do with a flood I think. And the second world war was also something where politicians kept denying problems until it was too late. And the financial crisis too ... well in fact every economic bubble is like that: things get out of hand but people think it's the new normal and they cannot believe there is a problem, until reality catches up with them.

We humans are very good at adapting and we quickly forget how things were. I know that from my own experience in the stock market. One year everything is doom and gloom and a year later stocks are up, everybody is used to the new situation and it is really hard to remember the period of doom and gloom. You actually think: what was it again that we worried about so much? I don't really remember...

Yes... I think we are naturally born deniers.

Oh I found this very nice article.

http://strongopinions.org/living-in-the-anthropocene-toward-a-new-global-ethos/

I will quote the last paragraph because it's so good:

"Imagine our descendants in the year 2200 or 2500. They might liken us to aliens who have treated the Earth as if it were a mere stopover for refueling, or even worse, characterize us as barbarians who would ransack their own home. Living up to the Anthropocene means building a culture that grows with Earth’s biological wealth instead of depleting it. Remember, in this new era, nature is us."

On the bright side, after our angry descendants cleaned up our mess, the descendants of our descendants will think very highly of our descendants.

And humanity will have learned a very important lesson.

- Never to mess with mother nature -

1.  We're so selfish you're not currently a subject of the Third Reich.  You're welcome, BTW.

2.  Your facts are off (surprise!) - China currently holds the CO2 title and our CO2 contribution has been decreasing.

1. Yes, the US was very nice back then and I am very grateful for that, but times have changed a lot.

2. You're right, it's almost double that of the US. Gosh, I knew they produced a lot, but that much ...

That is so... inadequate.  Boggles.

What happens in the me, me, me world of progressivism.

Took you 2 years to decide whose side you were going to be on....which of course was an improvement...it was 3 years in WW1 ....;)

China only wins because Gina is earning $598 a second selling bits of Australia to be smelted by them.....one tonne at a time...;p

Good thing FDR arranged Pearl Harbor, then.

Took us less time to win the damn thing than it's taken to build healthcare.gov.