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[0.8][balance] Horse/warg usage for trained units

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[0.8][balance] Horse/warg usage for trained units

from Elemental Forums

I am of the opinion that either the number of horses/wargs you get per turn should be decreased or their cost for trained units should be increased. Currently, if you build even a single stables, you will have so many horses that by turn 100 you won't even care anymore about your horse number (and you can trade them to AI without a source of horses for absurd amounts of money). No other resource is like this - crystal is in dire supply almost all the time, and is exceedingly hard to get in decent quantities, and metal is only about half the problem (as it is much easier to use up).

Right now, every single game ends up with a surfeit of wargs or horses in your inventory and they're so plentiful that a single source can supply your entire army forever. If it's not like that for crystal or even metal, this seems unbalanced.

I dislike the fact that this means that once you get a source of horses, there is no reason to build foot soldiers ever again for any reason, because putting your units on horses has absolutely no downside, material or otherwise.

234,691 views 54 replies
Reply #51 from Elemental Forums Top


I am of the opinion that either the number of horses/wargs you get per turn should be decreased or their cost for trained units should be increased. Currently, if you build even a single stables, you will have so many horses that by turn 100 you won't even care anymore about your horse number (and you can trade them to AI without a source of horses for absurd amounts of money). No other resource is like this - crystal is in dire supply almost all the time, and is exceedingly hard to get in decent quantities, and metal is only about half the problem (as it is much easier to use up).

Right now, every single game ends up with a surfeit of wargs or horses in your inventory and they're so plentiful that a single source can supply your entire army forever. If it's not like that for crystal or even metal, this seems unbalanced.

I dislike the fact that this means that once you get a source of horses, there is no reason to build foot soldiers ever again for any reason, because putting your units on horses has absolutely no downside, material or otherwise.

 

Agree indeed.

 

Quoting korn469, reply 49
  
I agree with these points
- make infantry the only units able to  have "guarded" status
- give mounted units very high dodge versus ranged units any time they move 3+ tiles away from their location last turn.
- Do NOT give large initiative bonuses for being mounted; rather give reduction to initiative penalties from wearing plate/chain.
- give mounted ranged weapons a 25% penalty to accuracy;
 
In addition to those I would do the following to fix mounted units from being the only sane choice and encouraging a good unit mix
-as numerous people have said, decrease the amount of horses/wargs that comes from a node. I think a 50% reduction would be good
-increase labor cost for using horses or wargs by 25-50%
- remove armor piercing from spears and instead give it to maces.
- give dismounted units with spears a 50% bonus against mounted units
-add in a new defensive trait to counter charge. Call it steadfast or dug in or something. 20 labor cost. Adds 3 or maybe 5 armor on the first turn and gives ANY weapon +1 counter attack on the first turn

 

Most of these (or all) are very good suggestions that I think would work well in the game. Jolly good, old chap!

Reply #52 from Elemental Forums Top

- remove armor piercing from spears and instead give it to maces.

I wouldn't have a problem with most of what you cited (I've suggested similar in the past), however there's no reason to dink around with Spears/Maces.  They seem to work just fine vs. Armor.

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #53 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting NorsemanViking, reply 51
-add in a new defensive trait to counter charge. Call it steadfast or dug in or something. 20 labor cost. Adds 3 or maybe 5 armor on the first turn and gives ANY weapon +1 counter attack on the first turn

Hm, I dislike the idea of a trait that exists specifically to counter another trait, just because that other trait is overpowered with the way the current system is set up. I would prefer fixing tactical combat so that charge wasn't so overpowered. Also, you can put charge on non-mounted units, so it's not exactly related to mounted units, per se.

Reply #54 from Elemental Forums Top

Yeah, as it stands Cavalry are waaaay too cheap. There is absolutely no disadvantage to not cranking out only horsemen or warg riders. Maybe decreasing the amount to .1 Horse/Warg gained per turn, and/or greatly increasing the upkeep cost for mounted units, which if we're going to be somewhat realistic here, that was the main problem with fielding too many cavalry. Horses were expensive as hell to maintain. One could make the same conclusion to giant riding wolves.

...Also, why does a war horse give more attack than a Giant snarling wolf?