IskatuMesk IskatuMesk

Black Sun: Retribution

Black Sun: Retribution

Black Sun: Retribution, referred to as Project Retribution, is a recreation of Black Sun: Salvation.

Black Sun has been rebuilt as a Radioplay, and is available http://www.campaigncreations.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6956. This link also contains information about the project, including why it was turned into a radioplay.

Do not bother asking any further questions regarding the project here, as I do not visit this forum. I may be contacted on CC for any inquiries.

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Reply #51 Top

My experiments are yielding results, but making exactly what I want will be very tough.

 

 

I'm well aware there is some kind of jitter going on. It's because I can't align anything in photoshop for shit.

 

/edit

 

I implemented the above and another similar effect to replace a chunk of the current non-animated kinetic impacts. The difference is pretty huge, and much improved. Horray, all that time wasn't a total waste!

Now, I need to make moar... for the chain explosions.

Reply #52 Top

The Royal Fleet has entered beta. Other than the Revelation and Jordan Cannon, I am freezing their ship pool. This is the second faction to reach beta, with the first being the Third-generation Undead.

Much polish work, like particles, abilities, and sounds remain to be done for them. But those are trivial in comparison to the extreme difficulty involved in modeling.

My attention turns to the remaining factions, including the Anahn Warlords, that need to be completed. As always, my priority lays in modeling ships, by far and beyond the most difficult portion of the Sins work in this project.

 

 

As an aside, I am considering cancelling the developer series due to lack of viewer interest, and the sound library will probably be internal only.

Reply #53 Top

Well, whatever you decide to do, keep us informed...Like the overhead roll bar design in the model above...

Reply #54 Top

 

Not to speak of the utter anguish it was to split the mesh, and the cussing to follow after I got more FAILED VERTEX CHECKSUM errors... but yeah. Individually selecting 4k+ faces to split is a bit painful, especially when you fuck it all up at some point and have to redo a bunch.

Reply #55 Top

Very, very nice sir... 5*

Reply #56 Top

Hot damn that looks amazing.

Reply #57 Top

Interest check: modeling videos via FTP. I am a shitty modeller but I was requested to make some 3d modeling insight videos for my MGEC series when I began making it some time ago. I now have substantial material recorded and release to that audience is imminent. I can echo the links here if there's interest. This is unrelated to the developer series which I am 90% sure I am going to cancel completely after studying youtube stats on previous developer videos.

 

Don't think I'll get the sins portion done in 2013. I'll be lucky to knock off another race by then. Depression and the insane heat are a double combo I can't compete with. Minimal work the last while.

 

Huge resource assemblies have continued to be amassed. I am ripping tons of SFX from anime and other stuff and remastering it to my level of quality. I don't think I'll use all of it, but my library can never be too large. Also have a league of legends rip which is some decent source material for some sounds. A lot of the project's sound bases are covered and it's only a matter of processing them, now.

Currently I am going to focus my efforts on catching up with my video work when the weather begins to cool off. I have a few LP's to knock off my list and some misc crap to put together for my viewers. I hope to commit all of Autumn and December to a massive push to get the sins portion of this project at least modeled out, seeing as models are the only difficult part of sins. Particles are just time consuming, and I can always work on polishing those inbetween my UDK learning process in 2014.

I might, read, might make a small sins-only teaser trailer by the end of the year.

 

My character modeller has yet to begin modelling any characters and shows no signs of actually attempting to start, so that's a big wild card that is totally not paying off at all right now. Worst case scenario I have to rely entirely on remastered rips. This is the #1 thing holding me back from doing UDK stuff yet, because I want to know how hard that shit will be to deal with before I start trying to build all of my designs oriented around it. Nonetheless, sins is priority.

 

I have two ships finished and ready to rig, another ship partly completed. Soon, very soon, I will aim to rebuild the most difficult fourth-gen ships, those based on old 2003 kitbash models I made for UF. If I can pull those off I'll be ready to attempt more challenging material to come, like the Khorannaroth itself.

This month's showcase material.

The new Gaverrah previously shown as a render. This was added some months ago but its particles still need updating.

Part of an early experiment. My custom asteroid field spawns planet asteroids in addition to small ones, all outside the gravity well so they avoid clipping with ships. I need some extremely large/complex asteroids to add to them. Then this will suffice for Tiran Fields and Tiran Wastelands recordings. I need to find some textures for custom dust clouds and verify how good they'll look. I still don't know if caverns will work in sins due to the crazy short shadow cull distance that will surely make any supermassive mesh look like shit (like some of my ultramassive ships I decided to not actually use in sins for many similar reasons). Therefore, I may need to do something extremely exotic for caverns recordings. I hope not. I hate extra tedious work.

The Headhunter model, despite being one of the smallest non-fighter ships in the game, has been revised (re: largely reconstructed) over 5 times already. Note that this screenshot was taken while experimenting with the Anahn texture a month+ ago, this set is no longer used since it was too busy and ugly.

Reply #58 Top

Quoting IskatuMesk, reply 57
My character modeller has yet to begin modelling any characters and shows no signs of actually attempting to start, so that's a big wild card that is totally not paying off at all right now.

Generally a sign that someone has bitten off more than they can chew.

Reply #59 Top

Yup. Perfectly within the realm of expectations. I have another modeler I can possibly ask later down the line... but we'll see. Not a high priority at the moment, but getting closer and closer on my radar. If they don't start now, they'll never be ready for testing when I need them. It'll take a very long time to make those models. Bah.

Reply #60 Top

Things are progressing. Very slowly, but they are progressing. I released another internal video showcasing some of the experimental DyiithJhinn additions and started messing around more deeply with overlays in Vegas.

I was able to run a 5-way FFA in this project without any major slowdowns except for when 2x AH and 1x UD engage at once. This is probably due to the overhead caused by particle calculations and damage calculations being so high latency. Compare this to Salvation, when 1v1 AH fights would cause massive slowdowns in the Lost Fleet. I'm interested to see if the new patch will manage to alleviate any of this lag.

In another instance, I encountered severe performance issues from unexplained outside sources. Enough to strip over 50fps out of the game with absolutely no competing CPU or GPU usage. I am not sure what caused this, but it should be easily avoidable during recording session (I usually run a LOT of software, it's probably some stupid FOSS indie shit leaking somewhere).

The particle vanishing issues are all but gone except for major fights, but I'll be able to record around those, so it's not a really big concern. The Anahn particles that are in the game right now are all considered beta and may very well be production worthy. I am going to experiment with some of Krdax's particles and see what I can conjure with them. So far, my experiments are proving to yield fruit. I have one more major game title to rip particles from and see if their textures are any good, the rest from hereon will be entirely custom made. I sent a huge chunk of these to the B5 project since I did mention I would eventually give them some FumeFX sheets to work with. Hopefully they'll be useful.

I processed a chunk of SFX and ran some experiments related to that. Nothing major, but every time I spent 10-20 minutes on sounds I get a few units off my list.

I've had a single unexplained errorless CTD that was surely not related to ram (1.5gb use pre-purge) and instead was likely to be related to some unusual entity issues still lingering around.

The ships I knocked off my DyiithJhinn list - Complacency, Unity, Conviction

Ships I have finished but not implemented - 2-3 Myrookk capitals, 1 Anahn 4th gen frigate, AH Starsong Kyrie, UD Melancholy. Myrookk stuff is extremely low priority right now.

Ships not finished but started on - UD Fear, AH Revelation. The Fear is an ancient model from 2007 and needs to be updated for super high detail prior to going into the UDK. This should be an easy project because the work is all in the materials that may or may not be impossible to do. The Warlord mobile cannon also needs to be updated.

To be quite honest, only the 4th gen Anahn remain to be determined to be really tough. I'll very slowly grind through DJ ships, and I may get a few more Xy ships done (They have a special ship that will be UDK only that I need to update a bit, otherwise that was the toughest model to create so far). But the 4th gen Anahn are the only race without a functional foundation in the game yet. I'll have to figure out how to actually add them as a new race in Rebellion...

Meanwhile, I started getting concerned about the ram limit. I gutted almost every UI-related texture I could, because they are all absurdly wasteful and it's astounding they made it to release like they are. Nonetheless, I feel if I had a super high performance interface setup that only use a single icon for everything related to planets, I could gut even more out of the game. What I really want to do is gut all of their mesh files, but since the entity files reference these, they'll actually crash the game unlike the textures. My next phase is to gut all of the particle textures, because I only use 3-5 of the vanilla textures for most of my particles (some are very outdated and need to be revised so I can remove their corresponding shit). Finally, I need to clean up my own particle texture directory as I'm sure there's 50-60 textures that got phased out when I switched to animated sheets.

The very vast majority of work aside from modeling remains in the particles, abilities, and SFX. Unfortunately, most of my time is being taken up by being in excrutiating pain from my CTS and arthritis, so I spend most of my hours editing videos for unrelated projects. The hardest part of this project draws closer each and every day - Unreal.

I've had one dance with Unreal so far. It turned out better than expected. But there's still a lot of unknown factors - like textures, and certain scenes will be super hard while others should be relatively simply. Without characters, I can't model most of the scenes since I don't have scale or style to base on. However, I may start trying to model some of the props in the near future.

In other areas, I've discovered the lossless codec I use to transition vegas videos to megui is not in fact lossless, and may be why my test videos are still not 1:1 with sins yet. I'll need to figure out how to get better visual quality before I can consider making a public trailer.

 

/edit

 

The OP has been updated to reflect the changes in release and development policies. E.g., the cancellation of the dev series and the privatization of the new sound library.

Reply #61 Top

If you're worried about RAM savings, may I ask if you use every single race each time you boot up Sins? If the answer to this is no, making factions modular (aka. in their own "mod" by porting over entity, mesh, and texture files) might be of use to you, as this is a way to save on RAM without actually cutting any content.

Quoting IskatuMesk, reply 60
I've had a single unexplained errorless CTD that was surely not related to ram (1.5gb use pre-purge) and instead was likely to be related to some unusual entity issues still lingering around.

It could still be partially RAM or engine related. From my experience, Sins becomes very unstable when you hit the 1.5-1.99 GB window.

Reply #62 Top

I've actually wondered about that modular thing. How exactly do you set that up? Currently I'm loading everything on startup, and just gutting the sins installation as I go.

If 1.5gb is a breakpoint, then I might just need to do that. I need a quick way to gut all of the base sins meshes except for a few mandatory ones like asteroids and such, too. I also need some supermassive asteroid models.... hmm.

Reply #63 Top

Quoting Lavo_2, reply 61
It could still be partially RAM or engine related. From my experience, Sins becomes very unstable when you hit the 1.5-1.99 GB window.

Odd, for me Sins usually plateaus at about 1.7 GB, occasionally hitting 1.8. I don't get random crashes in this range either. 

Reply #64 Top

Yeah I confused MP and SP for a moment there. For MP 1.5-1.6 GB is my limit, for SP it's more like 1.82 GB.

Reply #65 Top

Not the best of the Warlord models, but it'll do.

I was curious if Axel had any other meshes of his that could be useful. They were considered open source for modders in HW2 some years ago, but it's been a long time since any of his files were actually on the internet. Luckily for me, I have everything of his that I know of from those old days, hidden away...

Here is what I am doing with one of them. I took the barebones base mesh out of homeworld 2, de-triangulated it, and went from there. This will be the last Royal ship for the sins portion of the project.

Reply #66 Top

Жесткий человек для тяжелого рабочего дня в тылу.

Но только за счет расширения наших горизонтов мы можем открыть разрыв в рай.

Work on the project has been at a nigh-standstill for a long time. Other than amassing audio resources and minor 3d work, Retribution is in troubling times. A few gambles lost, many hefty wagers turning empty, and the road seems ever rougher to travel.

I've no desire to drag this on but it seems there is little choice. Sins production will have to continue into 2014 and the project lifespan will have to extend unnaturally long.

So far, my wagers on custom music and character models are both total busts. Music is something I expected to be a fail, but the character models hurts the project in ways that are not nearly as easy to compensate for. I'm looking at extremely difficult conversion and kitbash work that I have never attempted before to have any hope of even getting close to what I want. Alas, this is still a thing in the very distant future. For now, it will be a struggle just to finish the sins portion of the project.

At least a dozen DyiithJhinn ships remain, the entire fourth-generation Anahn fleet awaits, a half-dozen Myrookk ships, some warlord ships, some Xy ships, and a single Undead ship. I can cut corners on ship counts if, and only if, I can make each individual ship that much more complex and impressive. Either way, it's a huge amount of work and will serve to be the most difficult portion of the sins part of the project.

Times are tough, so we've heard. But we knew this was never going to be easy. From the start, this project was expected to fail long before I ever reached the UDK, simply because I am completely incompetent. So far, my predictions have stretched and bent, but not been out of bounds. Summer was very, very bad for productivity, due to the incredible heat and exhaustion. But, winter is upon us, and with it the opportunity to inject new life into the work.

Failing here means failing my lifetime of working towards this end. It invalidates every single thing I have ever done. Therefore, failure is not an option. I cannot allow it.

For this month I have nothing to show you. Nothing inspiring to tell you. No promises of the future, not even able to promise a future at all. But I hope that, in time, these dull months serve only as the calm before the storm.

 

Reply #67 Top

subscribed. is there an official mod page, like on moddb?

Reply #68 Top

Nope. Wouldn't touch moddb with a 69 foot pole. As this isn't a mod, there isn't much need for a dedicated page. There is a slightly more updated OP at Campaign Creations, but nothing worth linking.

 

/e I updated the OP's time prediction to reflect the current work rate. We are looking at a late 2014/2015 deployment now, and that's if things go smoothly.

Reply #69 Top

I don't like moddb either :P not much, at least.

Reply #71 Top

mkv! full definition :D

Reply #72 Top

That was enough to make me want more.  You are a horrible tease.

 

backs out of the room slowly......  *_* :borg:

Reply #73 Top

The Xy`Kranasha are nearing the same stage of the Undead and Royal Anahn fleet - the freezing of their ship line. Once they reach satisfactory levels, only the fourth-generation Anahn, the Myrookk Undead, and the Anahn Warlords will remain to build ship models for. A few misc things remain, like the large asteroids and potentially some more stations. After these are completed, my attention will focus on the UDK.

I hope I can complete the sins portion by the end of this year. I just might be able to if I can pull a whole wack of ship models out of my ass in the next three months.

Reply #74 Top

And finally, my last update for a while will be this - an hour-long assessment video of the above trailer talking about what it represents lore-wise and production-wise as well as a down to earth look on the future of this project.

 

http://www.gameproc.com/meskstuff/BlackSun/ret_hymn_assess-muxed.mkv

Reply #75 Top

Wow, I feel like I'm learning something. I never even watched all of Salvation, but I am a big fan of what you have done so far, IskatuMesk.

I don't want Retribution to be released and then the day afterward you post a 3-hour long rant about all of its flaws. But it seems that you know how to get to the quality of work you are looking for - I just hope your character models pan out.

 

Do you have any published books or anything else set in the Black Sun universe, besides Salvation and Retribution?