Tile Yields

Seconded

I have on rare occasion seen essence by a river or forest tile. It is ridiculously rare though. It seems that any tile by a river or forest has a max yield of 7 instead of 9.

i think there may be a rule that forests (and probably also rivers) reduce the maximum yield by 1. i've actually seen 2/4/2 tiles with forest access (the 2 essence probably came from a shard that was directly next to it). i've also seen several 5/3/0 tiles on rivers, but i don't think i've ever seen a forest or river adjacent tile with more than 8 total yield. 

i personally don't mind the new system. i think it's more balanced that way. sure it was nice to occasionally get super tiles, but with the new rules, all tiles are  guaranteed to be in the 6-9 yield range, so the really good locations are only 50% better than the really weak ones. the immediate starting area doesn't seem to be random at all. in almost all my games, i'll start on or next to a 4/3/2 tile now - unless it has a forest or river next to it (in which case it becomes a 4/3/1 or 3/3/2). 

You will occasionally see essence next to a forest, or on one, but then the tile will SUCK.

One thing they could do is allow you to build piers and lumber mills if your city can reach the forest/river, not just if it starts next to it.

I've played about a dozen games of LE so far, and am really getting discouraged by the utter worthlessness of trying. It may as well be a "once city challenge" because you'll never see a second city worth a &@#!.

Try some mods, you'll love them. I suggest:

Snaking - which is exactly letting you "expand your city outward" to build logging camps and piers.

River Bridge City - Allows a wonderful bridge which lets you "expand" your city to the other side of a river and keep building.

You might try my Mythic Buildings Packs if you want buildings that will reduce "bad starts". They give wargs, horses, metal, essence and other things, nicely balanced.

Transmutation Spell Pack lets you convert mana into resources like Crystal or Horses.

One more thing you can do is build a sovereign around a theme. Path of the Mage + Warlock + Enchanters + Quick Empire + Armorer... oh yeah. Another good one is Altarian Blood with all the EXP increase perks. By specializing in this way, you can overcome a bad economy in the early game.

Good Luck!

The "snaking" mod for FE still works fine in LH. Basically an essential mod now.

I haven't noticed bad tile yields overall, 3/3/3s are really common and that's the minimum I'll build a city on unless I'm desperate. Even see a few 4 essence tiles which are godly.

I shouldn't have to mod the game to make it fun and playable.

Also, monsters get too hard too fast. Last game, everywhere I look... halfway decent tiles (never an essence to be found next to a woods, still), but on top of it all "strong" monsters. FU

I see 3 essence every 10+ games (on the map, period, not on my starting spot). I've seen 4 NEVER (except as enemies starting tiles).

I am unable to find anything which causes less essence to come from rivers...

True, but the developers listened to the group where city placement needs to be a very important choice and so they removed snaking. All I did was add it back because I like the ability, makes things more dynamic in my opinion. This mod is a very easy mod to implement and doesn't change any game files, just adds a file, in your documents folder.

Essence comes from some resources, shards, and some monster lairs. Play with all those settings on dense and you will see 3 essence tiles all over the place every map.

Ah, so we aren't playing the game on normal settings... that explains a lot.

Am I supposed to PLAY this game, or is it an exercise in extreme gaming masochism?

Another new game, found two nearby locations with "mediocre" 4/3/0 tiles (of course not adjacent to a river or forest or anything good like that). What they ARE adjacent to is HAUNTERS, with full stacks.

Like I have a chance in $&*@! surviving this.

Oh, finally, a nice, uncamped, 4/3/0 by the woo... er nope, Death Demon and Lord of the Flame, so sorry...

You do know about 'ctrl + n' yes? That allows you to restart the map without going through the menu stuff again.

Uh? The game gives you a big screen full of settings to adjust to your playstyle, you are complaining about something you can fix for yourself on said screen. You don't get tagged a cheater or lose out on achievements by playing with dense resources, and it doesn't give you an advantage over the AI. Change your map settings and stop crying.

I know this isn't exactly what we're talking about here, but...

The starting area tile yields should all add up to 9, and let you pick which one you want.  Just for the starting zones, although expansion areas could use some work, because I mostly just see 1-2/3-5/0.  The workaround for bad starting resources is to hit Ctrl-N, which will start a new map allowing you a shot at better starting resources.  The problem with this workaround is it only works for you, and your AI opponents might get the shaft, getting only a 2/3/0 tile for their starting city.  

I've had some games where there was only one yield on my screen with yields, and I had to move to it.  While the tile your sovereign starts on shouldn't always be the best tile to settle on, it should at least have yields, and you should have more than one tile to choose from in the starting area.  Fortunately that tile was a 4/3/1, so I was able to still play the game off it.  This example was on LH v0.51.  

Just started a new game with dense resources.  This is better than I usually get, but it still proves the point that you can get good locations next to both forests and rivers:

i'm pretty sure Ai always get the yield for their capital adjusted, at least on challenging or higher. i checked some AI capitals from my last game and they were all 5/3/2 or better (on challenging - might be less/more on lower/higher settings).

and i'm almost sure that tiles with less than 6 yields aren't even visible  - the worst tiles i generally come across are 3/3/0, 2/4/0 or 1/5/0 (though the latter two are typically next to forest, which at least gives them some extra production)

Ahriman-

If messing with settings, or downloading a mod, is an offense to you, this just isn't your game. There are a lot of other strategy games that might be up your alley. 

Ask for recommendations here or elsewhere. I agree that this game does not hold your hand in a lot of ways other games do (and maybe this one should), but is most certainly FUN and PLAYABLE to other people as it is.

If after all the feedback you've gotten here, however, you're still put off, I might be tempted to suggest your issue isn't the game at all, but rather you finding a forum in which to whine and love the resulting attention...

Game has so many easily customizable options. I likely.  Choosing options doesn't change internet achievements.  I likely lots.  Current mods are easy to add.  I likely lots and lots.  Like, whats not to like?

Huh, I don't get it.

I just play with what it gives me, consider it part of the game. 

Perhaps it is my old school upbringing.  Their tile yeilds are still generous, to me.  At least you don't choose the wrong way of two in a corridor and die instantly, with no warning that a creature 100 levels higher than you is there. 

I have started on plenty of 3/3 and done just fine.  Frequently there are good other things around.  A grain, a clay pit etc.  If you say most of your games are 2/3 with nothing better and no essesnes, I ask for pictures.

I started a discussion on this two days ago, I should have titled it better: https://forums.elementalgame.com/442239

I also am finding the tiles/settling areas to be quite worthless, and I even resorted to playing on dense. Even on that setting, the areas are pretty much crap. It is far and few where I will get luck after 100+ ctrl Ns and an occasional ctrl U that I find something decent. I got tired of investing a few hours exploring and cleaning house only to find I'm half way across the map and I haven't found a suitable place to drop a second city down and end up rage quiting.

I don't find it very enjoyable. If there are people that like this, then by all mean make a one city challenge setting, but please make adjustments so us normal people can play. Some of us actually like to eXpand in a 4X game.

They are allowing the tile yield cap they introduced in FE 1.3 to be modded higher than 9 in the next beta update for LH. That was my biggest complaint for LH.

or enter a room with both a stairs up and a door north. entering either one forever removes the option to go back, and you never get the treasure chest with the megaelixer unless you memorize which one to pick.