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Do champions steal EXP in Legendary Heroes but not Henchmen?

Do champions steal EXP in Legendary Heroes but not Henchmen?

 

Just wondering as I haven't tested this yet. Do Champions still steal EXP but not henchmen? What made Henchmen a bit OP in the vanilla game is the fact they didn't seem to steal EXP like champions, but were similar in strength (outside of spell divirsity of course). Having many champions in your army kind of sucked due to the loss of EXP, took me ages to level up my Sovereign if I had a few champions with him as opposed to other units or henchmen.

61,394 views 39 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting NeoNick7, reply 24
c) they split the xp equally, giving 4 xp each. (total 8 xp)?

This is correct, more or less. Each champion will also apply their experience gain modifiers, if any, to the amount that they gain. So a battle worth 8 base experience will give 8*(champion x's experience modifier)/(# of champions present) to champion x, with this calculation performed for each champion on the field. Another way of looking at it is that the champions will each be given 8/(# of champions present), and they will each gain a bonus based on their individual experience modifiers, which do not affect anyone else in the army unless otherwise noted (e.g. the Trainer traits). Thus, for a battle worth 8 experience, you could have a mage gain 5.6 experience (Knowledge + Potential) and a Warrior gain 4 experience, for a total of 9.6 actual experience earned off of the base 8 experience for the battle. Trained units gain half of the base value given to champions, so in this case the trained units would gain only two experience apiece for the battle, unless they were designed with the Potential trait or your champions have army experience abilities (General, Trainer).

A note about the army experience modifiers - these can be viewed as modifying the base experience value of the battle, before division. So if you have a General (+25% army experience gain) leading your army,the game treats it as though everyone in the army - champions and trained units both - hass an additional +0.25 to their experience multiplier. Also, all experience modifiers are additive, not multiplicative, so Champion Potential + General + Knowledge works out to a multiplier of 1.65 (1 + 0.15 + 0.25 + 0.25), or +65% experience, for the champion, and 1.25, or +25%, for the trained troops.

Quoting smeagolheart, reply 25
I *believe* troops (meh) get full XP. So Champion X and Sovereign Y get 4 xp each and Axemaster and Archer would get 8 xp each from your example.

This is incorrect. If the champions of the army get 4 experience each, the trained troops only gain 2 experience each, before modifiers come into play.

Reply #27 Top


Thanks a lot Smeagolheart and Joeball123. :sun:

 

What share do "Henchmen" get (henchmen meaning the special half-hero-half-troop that can be reseached IF you have the trait/talent)?

 

EDIT2: deleted my faulty conclusion of the first answer to OP.

 

Reply #28 Top

Henchmen get whatever amount of experience a champion would get, but do not count towards the number of champions in the army. Therefore, if you have an army of two champions, two henchmen, and a few trained units, and the battle was 'worth' 10 experience, each champion and henchman gets 5 experience (multiplied by individual modifiers), and each trained unit gets 2.5 experience (multiplied by individual modifiers).

Reply #29 Top

Thanks again Joeball123. :)

Good to know, this makes henchmen even better to bring along with a single-hero army (as they get the full hero share).

 

Reply #30 Top

Quoting joeball123, reply 26
Quoting smeagolheart,
reply 25
I *believe* troops (meh) get full XP. So Champion X and Sovereign Y get 4 xp each and Axemaster and Archer would get 8 xp each from your example.

This is incorrect. If the champions of the army get 4 experience each, the trained troops only gain 2 experience each, before modifiers come into play.

This is incorrect. The trained troops get the same as any heroes. If the total was 8, and the heroes got 4 each, then every troop gets 4.

Reply #31 Top

Quoting Leo, reply 30


The trained troops get the same as any heroes. If the total was 8, and the heroes got 4 each, then every troop gets 4.

Um, 4 is half of 8, not the same as 8. If just your sov is in battle, he gets 8 and the trained troops get 4. Trained troops get 50% of the xp a hero gets (before splitting between multiple heroes), but do not split further with other trained troops. Pretty sure the .xml files show that trained troops split xp. Can you provide evidence to support your position?

Reply #32 Top

When I get home I'll take some screenshots to settle this once and for all of a battle with two troops and one or two heroes if someone doesn't beat me to it first.

Reply #33 Top

Quoting davrovana, reply 31


Quoting Leo in WI, reply 30

The trained troops get the same as any heroes. If the total was 8, and the heroes got 4 each, then every troop gets 4.

Um, 4 is half of 8, not the same as 8. If just your sov is in battle, he gets 8 and the trained troops get 4. Trained troops get 50% of the xp a hero gets (before splitting between multiple heroes), but do not split further with other trained troops. Pretty sure the .xml files show that trained troops split xp. Can you provide evidence to support your position?

 

Exactly, read my post again. I said if the total exp for the fight was 8, and 2 champions got 4 each, then the troops got 4 each. My quote was from a guy saying that the troops would get half of what the heroes received.

 

Reply #34 Top

Quoting smeagolheart, reply 32

When I get home I'll take some screenshots to settle this once and for all of a battle with two troops and one or two heroes if someone doesn't beat me to it first.

FYI, there are also modifiers to the total exp in regards to army strength. So with one hero you MAY get a higher total exp before anyone gets any exp. Or maybe not, one hero may not be enough to make that difference.

 

Reply #35 Top

Quoting Leo, reply 33
I said if the total exp for the fight was 8, and 2 champions got 4 each, then the troops got 4 each.

And yet, this is incorrect. Trained units get half of whatever the base value of the experience awarded to champions is, not half of the experience value of the fight. Otherwise, with three or more champions, your trained troops would be levelling faster than the champions, but this does not happen. See below for screenshots showing the end-of-battle report for attacking the same enemies on the same turn, with the only difference being that for one battle an extra champion was added to the army. Both times, the troops received approximately half of what each of the champions received. If it were the case that the troops received half of the battle's experience value, then in the second image you should see the troops earning as much as each of the champions.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jop3qnkcmju8hoh/Exp1.png

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2r6n6wy3y4lejw5/Exp2.png

Same battle done twice. Only difference was that Bannon Highsley was added to the army for the second time. Both times, the trained troops received half of what the champions got. Champion count affects the experience earned by anyone in the battle, champion or otherwise, and affects the experience in the same way. Having two champions in an army halves the experience earned by each champion, as well as halving the experience earned by each trained unit in the battle.

Quoting Leo, reply 34
FYI, there are also modifiers to the total exp in regards to army strength. So with one hero you MAY get a higher total exp before anyone gets any exp. Or maybe not, one hero may not be enough to make that difference.

Unlike for your previous post, this is true, and can be seen in the two screenshots I posted. First time around, the battle was 'worth' 16 experience. Second time around, the battle was only 'worth' 14 experience.

Reply #36 Top

Quoting joeball123, reply 35


Quoting Leo in WI, reply 33I said if the total exp for the fight was 8, and 2 champions got 4 each, then the troops got 4 each.

And yet, this is incorrect. Trained units get half of whatever the base value of the experience awarded to champions is, not half of the experience value of the fight. Otherwise, with three or more champions, your trained troops would be levelling faster than the champions, but this does not happen. See below for screenshots showing the end-of-battle report for attacking the same enemies on the same turn, with the only difference being that for one battle an extra champion was added to the army. Both times, the troops received approximately half of what each of the champions received. If it were the case that the troops received half of the battle's experience value, then in the second image you should see the troops earning as much as each of the champions.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jop3qnkcmju8hoh/Exp1.png

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2r6n6wy3y4lejw5/Exp2.png

Same battle done twice. Only difference was that Bannon Highsley was added to the army for the second time. Both times, the trained troops received half of what the champions got. Champion count affects the experience earned by anyone in the battle, champion or otherwise, and affects the experience in the same way. Having two champions in an army halves the experience earned by each champion, as well as halving the experience earned by each trained unit in the battle.


Quoting Leo in WI, reply 34FYI, there are also modifiers to the total exp in regards to army strength. So with one hero you MAY get a higher total exp before anyone gets any exp. Or maybe not, one hero may not be enough to make that difference.

Unlike for your previous post, this is true, and can be seen in the two screenshots I posted. First time around, the battle was 'worth' 16 experience. Second time around, the battle was only 'worth' 14 experience.

 

Ack, you are totally right, I brain-farted this one, not sure where the hell I got that from. Here is an old post of mine where I explained it a bit more thoroughly.

https://forums.elementalgame.com/438100/get;3293180

 

 

Reply #37 Top

What are these modifiers you speak of that alter the amount a particular battle is worth XP wise?

 

Seems bogus to me.  A dragon should be worth 100 xp whether you are facing him with 100 or 1 guys.  If it's 100 guys then split the 100xp amongst them.  If it's one guy then that guy gets 100.  If you want to split xp between heroes and regular grunts then hero should get 50 xp and the other 50% should be split amongst regular troops.

Reply #38 Top

Quoting smeagolheart, reply 37
What are these modifiers you speak of that alter the amount a particular battle is worth XP wise?

The game has some idea of what the strengths of your army and the monster army are. The difference between these numbers somehow comes into play as a modifier to the experience value of the fight. This is done because there really is a big difference in the challenge for killing an army of trolls with a single level one champion as opposed to killing the same army when you've got a high-level champion with an army of knights in shining armor backing him/her up, and the experience gain is nominally reflective of the degree of difficulty of the battle.

However, we don't know exactly what the modifiers are, nor exactly how they work. We can generally say that more powerful armies earn less experience than less powerful armies do, and that this strength metric is somehow affected by each of the unit attributes (attack, defense, initiative, health, accuracy, dodge, level) and probably also by the traits of a champion or unit (Water Magic IV probably adds more to the 'power' rating than Water Magic II, and special abilities like Reap or Charge probably add some set amount of 'power' to the strength rating). We cannot say, unless someone has done an extensive amount of testing or unless someone from Stardock tells us, how exactly this works out to the experience earned for a battle. So I can't give you a formula that says something like "battle experience is equal to (some sums for the enemy army) times (some multiplier based off of your army)" or anything like that.

The game essentially uses a challenge rating system to determine how much experience a battle is worth and then starts dividing stuff up from there. You can even see parts of the challenge rating system whenever you select an army or hover over an enemy - it's the Weak/Medium/Strong/Deadly/Epic rating - but it's not something that is that helpful for figuring out the system because of just how vague the categories are. You could probably figure out how much each part of a unit contributes to the challenge rating if you really wanted to (by coming up with minimum Attack/Defense/Health/etc values for Medium/Strong/Deadly/Epic armies and playing around with trait combinations to assign values to those), but it's probably not worthwhile. You can probably ensure that you get more or less as much experience as you'd ever get just by ensuring that you try to fight armies with similar challenge ratings (e.g. fight Medium+ enemies if your own army is Medium) and try to avoid grouping champions. Be advised that I have seen games which awarded experience on challenge rating systems where you were penalized for fighting above your own 'challenge level', though I could not say if that is the case in E:FE:LH or not.

Reply #39 Top


Good to hear about the Xp-system and it sounds correct from my brief experience. I think my heroes sometimes got more Xp when the fight was evenly matched. I cannot prove it as that would need some save-reload-investigations (and right now I just like to play the game).