[1.32] [Bug? - Very Little experience gained]

After the update to 1.3 version my heroes gain very little experience. My Sovereign with General, trainer2, potential2, knowledge and tutelage at level 13, in an army with two other heroes (lvl 5 and lvl 9) and three units gaines less than 50 experience after killing an Ashwake Dragon (Epic Challenge playing on Ridiculous difficulty.

 

Is this normal?

 

I did not see eny experience adjustments in the changelog for the new version.

12,527 views 18 replies
Reply #1 Top

Yes because you have to SPLIT experience between your Sov and all your Heroes/Champaions and units. So a full stack really puts a bender on you gaining lots of experience as you would have had you really fought an EPIC battle alone. ;)

Reply #2 Top

Quoting willie, reply 1

Yes because you have to SPLIT experience between your Sov and all your Heroes/Champaions and units. So a full stack really puts a bender on you gaining lots of experience as you would have had you really fought an EPIC battle alone.

 

As far as I know, trained units do not affect the amount of experience points gained by other units in the stack in any way.

Reply #3 Top

Yes but with three heroes experience is divided by 3

Reply #4 Top

Yes, but keep in mind the bonuses from that example.

 

General +25%. TrainerII +15%, Potential II +20%, Knowledge +25% = +85%

 

I rechecked and it is actualy around 40 experience points. It seems ridiculously low. It was not like that in 1.2 version. There is little incentive to actualy go exploring.

 

It also makes the heroes useless. There is no way they can level up enough to be relevant.

 

A Lord of Flames encounter giving only 4 experience?!

 

Game seems to award experience normaly up until that level (13). Afterwards nothing. Even though the rest of the units in the stackare at a much lower level.

Reply #5 Top

If you put the extra heroes in different armies, and send them in different directions, they will level up faster. I try not to have more than two heroes in any army at once, because it really messes up the xp gain.

 

Try with men, and train henchmen - they are very similar to heroes, except they do not cause the xp splitting, so you can stack lots together (possibly with a hero too).

Reply #6 Top

Was the dragon controlled by an AI enemy or was it a wandering mob?

Reply #7 Top

The dragon was in a wandering mob.

 

The xp system seems to impose severe penalties when in stacks of 3 or more heroes. I assume this is deliberate to prevent the 'stack of doom' type of gameplay.

 

There must be a better way of doing this. In the highest difficulty settings they are now completely useless as you do not have enough time to level them up to a point where they can succesfully contribute to an army before the AI swarms you.

Reply #8 Top

Hopefully this cap modifier is present in ElementalDefs.xml and can be adjusted. As long as it's not hardcoded, it's fixable.

 

While I support incentives to split heroes apart, and can at least understand the need to taper off xp above a certain point (level 20? something above 13 certainly), I think that the implementation you describe would be perhaps too severe. I haven't had time to play 1.32 far enough to verify your results.

 

Can anyone else verify this xp cap behavior? Preferably with a single hero stack and then reload again to compare to a multihero stack.

Reply #9 Top

This may be a bug.  Screenshots and save games would be nice.

There is no xp 'penalty' per se. 

The xp the mob gives to champions is divided equally among all champions, then unit modifiers are calculated. 

The xp the mob gives to trained units is always 50% of the mob's value for all trained units, then unit modifiers are calculated.

Reply #10 Top

I had though that the xp given for normal trained units was half the xp that was given per hero; ie that having multiple heroes in the group reduced the speed at which your soldiers leveled up too. Will have to check.

Reply #11 Top

I quick test with some starting units (that had no xp at all) against a Banished Ogre.

With 2 heroes and 2 soldiers: both heroes get 5 xp, both soldiers get 2 xp each.

With a single hero and 2 soldiers: hero gets 10xp, and soldiers get 5 xp each.

With a single hero who dies during the combat, and two soldiers, the soldiers both get 5xp each.

With two heroes, and two soldiers, and only one hero dies, the other hero gets 5xp, and the soldiers get 2xp each.

With just my two soldier units, when they eventually beat the ogre (extra reload required), they both got 5xp.

 

So, if there is more than one champion, xp is divided by the number of champions in the army to provide an xp amount. Otherwise the amount is the total from the mobs.

Then Champions (and Henchmen and maybe scions) get that amount of xp, + any bonuses.

And other units get half that amount.

 

Don't group up your champions if you want to level up your normal units with them.

Reply #12 Top

I would think this is to prevent hero and sovereign domination in games. Making one have to put more effort into leveling up troops as well. I've been able to defeat everything in my path with just level 13 heroes and sovereigns. Anything higher would just be overkill and overpowering.

Reply #13 Top

Hero stacks of death? What? Am I the only one that thinks heroes are not doing very well when compared to produced troops? 
In my current game, the level 26 assassin hero with an ignis and tons upon tons of perks and gear deals ~30 damage per attack, on average, while a 7-man "cheap" yew archer with absolutely no equipment one-shots drakes for over 150 damage.

Reply #14 Top

There was a stage during the beta where the 'hero stack of doom' was such a severe problem that one could easily win the game with them, without ever building any troops. I think the current situation is far more interesting and fun.

Reply #15 Top

Thank you for the replies.

 

I was conducting further tests and there is a penalty there or the game simply disregards the bonuses XP traits give. I was playing with a map mod that allows huge maps (12x9) and that is why I did not put up any savegames. The mod is a simple one from these forums that just increases map size so it should not have any effect on the xp system.

 

I am making a custom Sovereign with the XP traits enabled (knowledge, trainer, etc.) to further test this. If anyone is interested in testing this further, let me know and I would be glad to upload the relevant files and savegames in Dropbox.

 

Is there any way to revert back to the 1.2 version of the game so that I can provide specific numbers and savegames?

 

 

Reply #16 Top

 

Don't forget the xp penalty when playing on huge maps. There is a modifier for all xp gained for each map size, I don't rememder the exact values (you can look into the xml from the mod) but I think it was more than half xp in comparison to a medium map.

This is done because there is more time and more mobs to level up.

 

Reply #17 Top

Quoting Athyton, reply 7
The dragon was in a wandering mob.

 

The xp system seems to impose severe penalties when in stacks of 3 or more heroes. I assume this is deliberate to prevent the 'stack of doom' type of gameplay.

 

There must be a better way of doing this. In the highest difficulty settings they are now completely useless as you do not have enough time to level them up to a point where they can succesfully contribute to an army before the AI swarms you.

Problem is that this doesn't deter stacks of doom. It only deters keeping them together for extended periods of time. Not to mention, if you know your stack of doom is the biggest bully on the block, than gaining further experiance becomes useless as the opponents can never recover from their bloodied nose.

 

Reply #18 Top

Quoting Gid73, reply 16

 

Don't forget the xp penalty when playing on huge maps. There is a modifier for all xp gained for each map size, I don't rememder the exact values (you can look into the xml from the mod) but I think it was more than half xp in comparison to a medium map.

This is done because there is more time and more mobs to level up.

 

The only modifier that appears in the map XML is <ResearchRateMultiplier>. I suppose this modifier is used both for research and XP.