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[1.004-1.01] Life/Death magic against dragons

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[1.004-1.01] Life/Death magic against dragons

from Elemental Forums

There are two simple ways to defeat Clambercoil/Ashwake Dragon before season 50. First is Life magic: Shrink and Growth. Second is Death magic: Blindness and Curse. Of course you can easily defeat other monsters too with Life or Death magic. Hero levelling is most important part of game. So the only viable way to play is using Life or Death magic. It leads to one-way playing that is boring. Also when you defeat most powerful monster so early, you lose interest to continue playing, because other aims are less challenging. Imho Life/Death magic is overpowered.

[1.01] My Lady Irane defeated Fell Dragon on season 50. Save before the battle.

Video of the battle:

 

Update: Fell Dragon is defeated 1vs1 without using summons on season 56. Save.

143,214 views 60 replies
Reply #51 from Elemental Forums Top

I don't see how using healing items is something bad (isn't that the point of them in the first place?), but if it's so bad, then do it like most games who don't want people to just jug pots, make it a buff that slowly heals over time instead.

Now... if you really think THAT was OP.... what would you call this?

Reply #52 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting parrottmath, reply 51
I agree with Tuidjy that there needs to be appropriate ways to balance the problem. I do not agree with not stopping an exploit to get an advantage.

I did not call this an exploit.  I called it a strategy, a synergy, a good player, whatever!

Quoting parrottmath, reply 51
F your goal with them is to be scary and the player has to deal with them at some point do not let them leave their lairs (even if the zone of control goes over them).

Or just have them destroy whatever disturbed them.  But what we have now is:

1. The developers have kept the AI settling near big beasts.

2. The developers have kept the big beasts target player cities preferentially. (I would bet a half a million this is true on Expert in 1.01. Yes, Frogboy, I mean it, I would put the cash in escrow, and the loser pays for the experts. I feel it is true on challenging as well, but I do not play there, so i am not sure)

3. The developers seem intent on stopping any strategy that can deal with a big beast around turn 50, which is when the Ai is pretty much guaranteed to start disturbing big beasts.

This situation is horrible. I think it is costing the game players.  I know I cannot convince my wife FE is worth playing (She plays Dominions 3, Din's Curse and X-Com:EU, Fallen Enchantress should be right down her alley)

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #53 from Elemental Forums Top

why does the dragon hurt itself when it breathes fire. that definitely makes no logical sense. fixit D:

Reply #54 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tuidjy, reply 52
I did not call this an exploit. I called it a strategy, a synergy, a good player, whatever!

I agree that this is not an exploit. The number of healing potions needed really demonstrates this to me. Basically you need to be level X and have at least 200 gold to defeat this dragon.

But there are other things that are exploits that should be fixed.

For example I shouldn't be able to cast tireless march to move 1 more move, but un-enchant and cast it again to gain 1 more move and un-enchant and cast it again to gain 1 more move. This is an exploit to gain maybe an extra 10 moves, sure at the expense of mana, but if someone is going to do this it should be a separate spell or not possible to do this.

Quoting Tuidjy, reply 52
Or just have them destroy whatever disturbed them

I would even be happy with a leash type idea. The creature shouldn't wander more than a radius of 5 tiles away from their lair. That should be enough to stop it from crushing player cities. I feel your pain about some parts of the game, but how to accomplish the desired results without the world seeming to artificial is hard to program into monsters. The randomness that the frog has done is great along these lines, but we can't ruin the fun with maurading powerful monsters. Plus, wouldn't these powerful monsters be more inclined to protect their lairs and their children have more of the wanderlust.

Reply #55 from Elemental Forums Top

Potions and Salted Pork are too strong in tactical battle and available for everyone. For comparison, Heal heals by only 8 (+2 per life shard), requires Life 2 and can't be used in strategic map.

Reply #56 from Elemental Forums Top

I think that Salted Pork should be reduced to the hitpoints they provide from 20 to 10 and cost half as much as well. That would make them still viable early game, but not game breaking.

Reply #57 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting parrottmath, reply 57
I think that Salted Pork should be reduced to the hitpoints they provide from 20 to 10 and cost half as much as well. That would make them still viable early game, but not game breaking.

This would make salted pork useless to me...

As I have said before, don't whack a whole lot with the nerf hammer when changing numbers, instead just tweak the numbers slighty, either put a CD of 2 turns on salted pork, or change hp gained to somewhere between 15-18.

Him killing a dragon is more "the sum of the parts" deal... So if you nerf 1 thing to death that same item will be useless afterwards...

~ Kongdej

Reply #58 from Elemental Forums Top


Just had to deal with a dragon in my game.  They are hard, but the really big issue is that they injure themselves with their own breath.  Quite badly.  This was the only reason I was able to beat it.  If this one thing was fixed, I think that dragons would be quite difficult enough.

Reply #59 from Elemental Forums Top

Problem is not only in dragons. All monsters are much easier with Shrink/Growth/Blindness/Curse. Other magic barely can compete with Life/Death in early game.

Reply #60 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting stevelamperti, reply 59

Just had to deal with a dragon in my game.  They are hard, but the really big issue is that they injure themselves with their own breath.  Quite badly.  This was the only reason I was able to beat it.  If this one thing was fixed, I think that dragons would be quite difficult enough.
  This needs to get fixed

 

Quoting harmonius_, reply 60
Problem is not only in dragons. All monsters are much easier with Shrink/Growth/Blindness/Curse. Other magic barely can compete with Life/Death in early game.
  I still disagree.  You are using an awful lot of stuff to defeat the dragons, not just life and death spells.  Slow is a water spell.  Tactics need to be improved for the dragon.  As above, nuking themself with theirr own breath is a poor tactical choice.  Also, the AI needs to decide what would be a better first target.  Dragons never sweep--when I have a dragon I use sweep all the time.

 

I do think the heal spell versus some of the bread, nectars, and potions is fairly weak.