[eWIP][eMOD] F.E. Immersion Mod Version 1.4 -- Lots of Dramatic Changes - 2-5-2013

Well something that i wanted to see in a mod is the Sovereign or Henchmen or other hero units to be able to join units giving them specific bonuses. I find it more realistic to join units than standing alone in the battlefield attacking large enemy formations. Dont know if thats possible though   

What do you mean join units? Do you mean like a group of spearmen, you have your sovereign join the spearmen group? That is not possible.

Thats what i meant and yes i know its  hard to do if not impossible, just a thought.    

There is no way to do it. Is there anything else you would be interested in seeing?

Cant think of something right now but i like your thoughs for the mod especially those that make seasons to weeks. Keep it up!

I like your idea but an idea that could slow down pioneer spamming at the start you could have it so that when you recruit pioneers or any unit it decreases the cities population of the city that it came from.

With your city idea personally I don't think its realistic because cities were not very big during the early periods after any disaster because look at the medieval ages a city will 200 people was quite a large city.

Either way with the mod I am looking forward to it

Historically cities could have tens of thousands of people living in (or very near) it. Capital cities could have up to 100 000 people. So in that sense, a larger scale is much appreciated from a historian's perspective.

If the purpose is to make an immersive mod, then I would consider the following: cities were essentially a net loss in population. Even through the early industrialization cities only continued to exist because more people emigrated to the cities than died in them. There weren't nearly enough people being born in the cities to compensate for the loss from deaths. I'd love to see this reflected in a mod, so that you have "world resources" function as population producers, whereas the actual city would constantly run a negative growth. Although there could be huge AI issues for gameplay there. Still, the point is, cities existed only because they traded goods for food and labour constantly emigrated to them. This is why you'll find cities like Paris and Madrid nearly in the exact center of their countries - surrounded by a huge stock of food and population.

The big exception is cities located near rivers or oceans (think Venice). Those cities were able to survive because they traded and fished instead, which is equally important. Difficult to simulate in FE though.

That is true Heaven, but I am thinking more along the lines of Europeans settling the colonies (I am actually a History teacher and teach American History). Cities like NY or Philadelphia had a population of around 25,000 in 1760. Now, the world of Elemental is a different beast but bears some similarities to the "New World" when the Europeans arrived. I can't simulate it exactly of course and Elemental also has monsters, magic, etc. to deal with.

In America, most of the population lived in rural areas, while only small populations lived in cities. In Elemental, it would be very difficult for people to live in rural areas because of monsters, and all kinds of evil corruptive influences. Cities would be safe havens. There is also the magics of the sovereign to think about.

Also to get examples, you have to think what time period in history we are talking about. If you are talking about Medieval society or renaissance society then that is true. If you go further back to Rome, there would be certain cities which would be quite massive (Rome having 1 million people living in it at certain times). Or the city of Carthage, etc. So there are various examples out there.

The way I see it is that the world of Elemental is extremely dangerous, people are leaving the wilds to go to the city for safety. New population will be migrants rather than new children if the turns are done like weeks and months, rather than seasons and years. It definitely makes sense for a population of a city to grow to 10,000 or so in 8 or so in game years with migrants coming in from the wilderness, assuming there is that many.

Already have it in mind that pioneers and units will reduce population. You are wrong on your perspective of "cities". Cities were never 200 people, even in the dark ages. Especially not major cities. You have to realize that in FE you are only building a handful of cities, so these are going to be considered your "capitol" and "major cities". A capitol always has a large population since it is the center of government. Also, there are always going to be a few major cities in each country with large populations, also consider this. I am not talking about 100's of thousands of people. For the first couple of years in game time, population is going to be small in your city, probably under or around 1,000 which is not a lot. As time goes by and your city develops more and has more luxuries and food and such the population will grow. Eventually it will reach 10,000 or more but it wont ever reach like 15.000 or more probably. By the tenth in game year, you probably wont have more than 10-20 thousand in your empire, although I might increase pop even more. I am still considering it.

These are some interesting ideas and it may be possible but we have to really consider it carefully so that it works with the AI. There are certain things that could be done. You could create a world resource called population and have a little village graphic or something and sprinkle the world with them, capturing these world resources would be essential as you would need them to increase growth in your city. Maybe get rid of prestige or make it very small. Capturing village or town world resources would mean population grows. Maybe something like this.

Or you could just have world resources give prestige in the connected city. Even small numbers (0.2, 0.3) would emphasize that it is the surroundings of a city that determines how well it is able to support inhabitants.

What do you think about giving a large bonus to Capitol cities in regards to food so capitol cities can get much larger populations?

True, but it would have to be a larger number than that or else population would never grow heh. With just small cities of 100 or 200 that might be okay but when you want cities to grow to a couple thousand or more that isn't much. I am thinking maybe capitol cities should get a huge bonus to food and prestige since they are your capitol and will naturally attract migrants. Villages and such would of course increase this amount. Maybe get rid of global prestige and just have certain buildings and such be what gives prestige. A long with taking villages and such.

What you could do is give the capital city extra grains and materials. That way you have a city that stands out, but is still dependant on other towns to give global bonuses to food.

Ok I came up with some great ideas here, tell me what you think.

I want Capitol cities to be really meaningful, as they should be. So Capitol cities will get a different path then the normal city (as in cities that upgrade to Towns, conclaves and fortresses)

First, Heaven do you know of a way to make something require a Capitol? Is there a "Variable" for capitol? If not I can tie it all to the Tower of dominion.

Capitol cities should be able to build everything that a conclave, fortress and town builds in my opinion. So Capitol cities will be able to build mostly everything. I am thinking of maybe changing how food is gotten though. There may be "some" buildings that ever kind of city can build to grow food but Towns are going to be the real agricultural centers. Capitols won't have many buildings for food either. You will have to have towns to really grow food. The food buildings will give global benefits rather than city specific I think. Also, I am considering whether wonders and major buildings (ones that can only be built in one city) only be capable of being built in a capitol city.

Capitol cities on reaching level 2 and choosing capitol city will gain extra grain, materials and maybe 1 extra essence. These will be very important cities. Capitol cities will also get the most growth. Prestige will not be global and will be tied to certain buildings like the tower of dominion, Inn, theatre, things like that. Maybe some buildings will give global prestige like certain wonders or something. Sovereign will also give some prestige. This means that the Capitol city will grow a lot but other cities wont grow as much, depending on what kind of city it is. Towns will grow decently but conclaves and fortresses wont grow as quickly but will still grow of course. Food will be global as in towns will produce food for the empire. Also there will be no techs providing food or prestige. Getting to lvl 2 will be easy but growing to 3, 4, and 5 will be more difficult but still definitely possible. Your capitol city will grow quickly though. I will also increase the amount of food that grain provides so that cities can definitely grow to at least 3 depending on how much grain. With Towns, your cities will grow more of course.

Also, will add world resource of maybe "farming village" and maybe a town, which could give different prestige benefits (locally).

I will come up with more ideas too. There will be more differences then just this but I think its pretty good. What do you guys think?

some cool ideas here.  i like the concept of little hamlets or settlements as resources for city hubs.

On unit sizes:

Wildland bosses are large and take up several squares on the tactical map so why can't you use that to your advantage? Make a unit take up multiple squares and have each square graphically hold ten little men. So a company of spearmen would take up ten tactical map squares with ten men on each square. On the strategic map have a graphic of a single spearman with a company flag represent the whole company just to minimize clutter. Make it so that if ten men die the unit size shrinks by one square.

This could make formations possible and meaningful. A spearmen company having a formation of five squares across and two deep could become a blocking force with depth on the tactical map especially if you have to other spearmen companies doing the same thing on either side of the first one. With a river anchoring one flank and a company mounted knights holding the other flank you could hold the enemy melee units at bay while your archers fill them full of arrows.

Then again this may not be technically possible to mod. If that is the case then ignore my ramblings. If it is though...

As to city sizes:

Lore wise the game takes place years after the war that tore elemental apart so a new generation of young men and women should be coming to age about this time... I can easily see a city founded by a sov that offers protection attracting literally thousands of people in just a couple of years. Other cities would grow much slower then the capital though thus I could see your capital growing larger then all your other cities by end game but your other cities only grow moderately large. For example by end game your capital might have a population of around 25 to 50 thousand while your other cities might have population varying from 5 to 20 thousand. Thus your capital is your most important city period.

Just my two cents...

I am not sure if it is possible to implement your ideas on unit sizes, I can look into it but I doubt it is possible. Yes, you can make a unit have multiple tiles, but that doesn't mean you can make it so that each tile has 10 men in it or whatever. Not even sure if you can give a human unit more than one tile.

Yeah, as to city sizes, you are seeing things my way I suppose. 

Also, I had another idea to put out there. How about limiting pioneers to capitols? Only a Capitol can build a pioneer, what do you think about that?

You can actually make capital cities their own type of cityhub through the raceconfigs. It isn't used in FE but I used it in E:wom mods.

       <NewCityHubType>CityHub1</NewCityHubType>
        <CapitalHubType>CityHub1</CapitalHubType>

Hmmm so if I use that code, does it already know which is the capital city

Edit -- Would that work for custom factions also

Don't know about custom factions.

Actually the xml I posted is just used to make your first city special. It is only your capital city as long as you hold it.

But, couldn't I use that code to set the "capital city" down a different path? So if I were to put in the coreraceconfig this:

<CapitalHubType>CityHubCapital</CapitalHubType>

and then add in coreimprovements a CityHubCapital which upgrades to a CityHubCapital2 which upgrades to a CityHubCapital3, etc. that should make the city follow that path. However, I think it will only work that way with factions that are put into coreraceconfig, so it might not work with custom factions.

Perhaps tying it to the tower of dominion instead is better

I tried to edit the coreraceconfig to this:

<NewCityHubType>CityHub1</NewCityHubType>
<CapitalHubType>CityHub11</CapitalHubType>

cityhub11 being a different hub. It still built his first city as cityhub1 and not cityhub11, so how do I get it to follow the cityhub11 path instead? If this is confusing, let me know.

Also, Heaven, where is the code that has you pick which type of town you want. This is what I see in the coreimprovements file:

For CityHub1 you got this

<ImprovementType InternalName="CityHub1">

and it upgrades to this:

<CityUpgrade>CityHub2</CityUpgrade>

and this: 

<ImprovementType InternalName="CityHub2">

upgrades to this:

<CityUpgrade>CityHub3</CityUpgrade>    <--- This doesn't exist in coreimprovements though and then you have these:

<ImprovementType InternalName="CityHub2_Town">

<ImprovementType InternalName="CityHub2_Conclave">

<ImprovementType InternalName="CityHub2_Fortress">

So my question is how does <ImprovementType InternalName="CityHub1"> get to these : <ImprovementType InternalName="CityHub2_Town"> and <ImprovementType InternalName="CityHub2_Conclave"> and <ImprovementType InternalName="CityHub2_Fortress"> when it says that it upgrades to <CityUpgrade>CityHub2</CityUpgrade> which upgrades to <CityUpgrade>CityHub3</CityUpgrade> which doesn't exist.

How does this work?

CoreAbilities.xml