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Is Fallen Enchantress the best strategy game of modern times?

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Is Fallen Enchantress the best strategy game of modern times?

from Elemental Forums

  So I've been playing the newest build. It's supposedly a beta. But feels finished to me. That's not what I want to write about.

  I discovered Stardock years ago from their WindowBlinds stuff. Then I got into Demigod which was a disappointment. Then I got into WOM and that was a bigger disappointment. I know people don't like me bringing that up but you just got to face it.  

  As a customer and a gamer, Stardock has 2 wins and 2 losses with me. I'm not a fanboy and I'm not a troll. I think I'm representative. I'm in my 30s. I don't have a lot of time for games. I am looking for a game that doesn't feel like it was just pooped out the mass market conveyor belt (I'm looking at you XCOM, CIV V).

  I didn't know that Civilization IV was going to be such an anomaly. I thought it was going to be the start of a new golden age for strategy gaming. But it's been down hill since then. Think about it. 

  Civilization IV came out n 2005. That was 7 years ago. To me, modern times means since I got my last computer which was in 2009 when Windows 7 came out. That was a long time ago in gaming standards. If you like strategy games, what are the choices?

  Disicples II, Civilization V, Sword of the Stars II, HOMM VI, Endless Space, Warlock, Total War: Shogun.

  Of those, I could only tolerate Endless Space and Shogun. I hope they make an Endless Space II. Shogun was fun for awhile.

   But none of them can even briefly be compared to the richness of EFE. Not because they aren't good games. It's because none of them have even tried to be ambitious. WOM was ambitious and collapsed under its own weight. At least it tried I guess. Civilization IV was ambitious and they stripped it down to make the mass market friendly Civilization V.

   So I ask, if not EFE, then what? What modern game even comes close to providing the sheer joy and depth and fun of EFE? You have to dig back. Way back to do so.

   I haven't got to play the campaign and I don't care about mods (sorry Kael). I don't care about those things. What I do know is that on a cold Fall friday night i can sit down and load up EFE and play it all weekend and not know what is in store. 

   For the first time since I got this computer, I say to you, bravo Stardock. You have delivered the goods. This is the best game I've played since I got this computer. Thank you.

109,987 views 89 replies
Reply #76 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting DrThrash, reply 23
I am surprised that no one mentioned the Age of Wonders series yet; they are TBS games in the tradition of Master of Magic, just like FE is. The newest game, AoW II Shadow Magic (from 2002!), is still superior to FE is many aspects, most notably user interface, magic, and tactical battles.


I haven't played Fallen Enchantress yet, but I *hope* its magic system is better than AoW II. While a great game in its own right, I feel like AoW has the worst work to payoff ratio out of any MoM based or inspired game barring the original Elemental, including MoM, AoW, Fall From Heaven 2, Warlock, and Dominion 3. You spend incredible amount of time, resources, and manpower to gather mana, research spells, expand your domain, and position troops... all for a handful of uninspired buffs, summons, and attack spells. In MoM you could feed, fund, create, immortalize, mobilize, waylay, cripple, and destroy entire armies, turn the world into a giant lifeless mana battery, and levitate fleets of warship out of the sea. In Dominion 3 you can shroud the world in darkness, summon beings tantamount to gods, and protect your provinces and bolster your work force with an army of illusions. In AoW II...there's one really good high-end attack spell that doesn't rely on inflicting status effects, and those tier four summoned units really come in handy augmenting your army of tier four units that don't require mana.

None of those games have a balanced magic system, but AoW II is balanced in the wrong direction. AoW II's combat system allows you to bring 3 stacks of units onto the field, and often expects or requires you to do so.  A well-placed fireball or a tier four summoned unit can do good damage against a single stack. But three stacks? Not so much. AoW II's magic system is a forecful shove to MoM's punch to the face. When magic is a subsitute for a tech tree, I feel dominance in magic should equate to dominance of the world. And I think that's where a lot of fun in the MoM inspired games come from. In one of the GameInformer articles I read about Elemental, it mentioned that magically was purposefully overpowered. While that was entirely untrue of the final product, I'm hoping that holds true for Fallen Enchantress.

Reply #77 from Elemental Forums Top

I've played through to beta 992 (things might change with 1.1) and while I find the game  enjoyable; as an honest assessment I would not call it the best. It has quite a few bugs (none of the ones I've mentioned have been fixed) and quite a few oddities in the interface (none of the ones I've mentioned have been fixed; esp the ability to use books in the trade menu or a very quick method to switch to equipment window). Then there is a personal preference for hex or oct over squares.

Mind you all games have oddities of one sort or another so don't take my comments too negatively. I think FE is enjoyable and I hope they continue to improve the mechanics; improve the gui ; improve the balance (esp ai behavior between easy and hard); but in all honesty I cannot say it is the best. the glitches and bugs (much less the oddities in gui) are quite annoying. In my last game [992] beta I had a constant stream of crashes and bugs (I must be doing something wrong as no one else seems to be mentioning these - stuff like an attack on a city causes a battle with an army on the other side of the map.

-

Anyways I look forward to trying the campaign or maybe waiting a month or two and seeing if they streamline the gui a bit. I know these seems like little nit picks but details are important.

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #78 from Stardock Forums Top

I will say no to this question:

Is Fallen Enchantress the best strategy game of modern times?

The game is fun now but it still missing aspects that would make it one of the best at lest IMO.  First off no sea units of any kind (that is a big negative in my book) I would like to see MP but I know we won't so I won't harp too much this given that I really liked GalCiv2 and it was only SP. (However MP would give the game a few points in my book if done right)

The game as is does feel done for the most part however to make the game from Good to great will have to go to the mod comunity (I'm looking at you Seanw3 and others:)  as well as any new updates the devs put out for the game, (Much like Galciv 2.) 

Devs have done a great job on the game so far and it it light years ahead of WOM.  Oh and I actully lost for the first time in memory to this game yesterday on Challanging.  I actully enjoyed losing that game more than winning any other FE game I have played in the past.  This my seem odd to many of you but I perfer a challanging game which we don't seem much these days of computer games.  Hopefully this was not a one time loss. In fact I really hope the AI kicks my as on Challanging. I hate playing the higher levels because the AI has to cheat and I hate cheating in any computer game AI or player.  And it really sucks if the AI is cheating and you still easily defeat them which is what it was like in all previous versions.

 

Reply #79 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting you28, reply 77
It has quite a few bugs (none of the ones I've mentioned have been fixed) and quite a few oddities in the interface (none of the ones I've mentioned have been fixed; esp the ability to use books in the trade menu or a very quick method to switch to equipment window). Then there is a personal preference for hex or oct over squares.

So are these bugs or feature requests?

Reply #80 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Mtn_Man, reply 80



Quoting you28,
reply 77
It has quite a few bugs (none of the ones I've mentioned have been fixed) and quite a few oddities in the interface (none of the ones I've mentioned have been fixed; esp the ability to use books in the trade menu or a very quick method to switch to equipment window). Then there is a personal preference for hex or oct over squares.


So are these bugs or feature requests?

Nothing that will crash.

Most are feature requests or balance adjustments.

 

Reply #81 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Napean, reply 20



Quoting TheJaker,
reply 15
 Sengoku? Really? Well, no Sengoku, no CK2.  I saw Sengoku as a test bed (and maybe pre-funding) for CK2.  No, I don't play it anymore, but it was well priced for what you got.  I put Sengoku in the "Paradox Lite" category that Crown of the North and Two Thrones reside in. Just my two cents.


 

To the OP:

I agree Endless Space is pretty solid, and I love the ongoing support.  Not the deepest or most epic-feeling game, but it's solid and entertaining.

I don't know if you've played Disciples 3, but it's worth a spin.  The Disciple series keeps drawing me back if only for the atmosphere and artwork (hey, don't judge me; how many saps out there play Final Fantasy because "the cut scenes are awesome!").

Tropico 4, while not a 4x, is an entertaining strategy game (if you like being Castroito)

So yeah, I guess E:FE is gunning to be in a class of its own at this point.  I'm still waiting for SMAC2, MoO4, and AoW4...

Well for me the best 4x TBS game of all times is still AOW:SM followed by GALCIV2:TA  but Endless Space is close to unsetting GALCIV2:TA. But FE still is not there yet IMHO to unseat them. 

Now where did you hear that they were making AOW4?

Reply #82 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Tuidjy, reply 35
I do not understand why people like AoW2 more than the original AoW. I mean, I enjoyed the sequel, finished it, and never went back.  I still replay the original Dark Elf campaign from time to time, and I still play some of the mods.

I liked AOW  but AOW:SM I found to be much more fun (although I wish it would have kepted all 12 races instead of going down to 8)  And I wish they had the exploring dungeon feature on the TC map that AOW had. But other than those two everything else in AOW:SM is much much better.

 

Reply #83 from Elemental Forums Top

Well the bugs are bugs; feature requests are mostly along the lines of gui changes and those are a matter of opinion and my guess is stardock disagree with my opinion (or have higher priorities).

-

Anyways you can find my posts easy enough (this site has some nice features) so you can judge for yourself.

 

Quoting Mtn_Man, reply 80

Quoting you28, reply 77It has quite a few bugs (none of the ones I've mentioned have been fixed) and quite a few oddities in the interface (none of the ones I've mentioned have been fixed; esp the ability to use books in the trade menu or a very quick method to switch to equipment window). Then there is a personal preference for hex or oct over squares.

So are these bugs or feature requests?

Reply #84 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 60
Ya, they implemented a tactical battle only match up system that was an interesting idea. But I am referring to the real MP. The strategic MP was a sad state and despite all that DLC money, never once got a single update. I agree that Shogun 2 has a superior format graphics wise for tactical battles. Even using the same strategies over and over seems unique each time because of the complexities of unit formation and the amazing graphics. But the difference is that FE can change and mold itself to the user. To me, that trumps the nice tactical battle display. Game play over game aesthetics I always say.

I'm not seeing it. TC in FE is simplistic at best. Much better now than in previous versions but no where near as encompusing as in TW2.  Infact I still thing AOW:SM TC is better than FE at the moment because it has more elements in TC than FE does which include bigger battle maps. 

Also King Arthur's TC which is similar to TW is pretty good as well (just bought the whole King Arthur pack at steam for 75% off.

Reply #85 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Mtn_Man, reply 62

Civilization IV was ambitious and they stripped it down to make the mass market friendly Civilization V.


Personally, I'd put Civilization V: Gods & Kings at least on par with Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword.

Actully I would put Civilization V: Gods & Kings above Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword. It is just more fun to me. But I like both games

Reply #86 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting zonk_1000, reply 67


On the other hand, FE's strong points are the art, captivating graphical style...


 

Actually, those things are by far the weakest elements of FE. It's the reason why I can't understand some of the glowing reviews I've seen here. I don't need the latest bleeding edge graphics or art style in my strategy games but the graphics/art in FE are the biggest reason why I'm not all that impressed with the game so far. I'm not even sure why the look of WoM was kept when a lot of people panned the graphic style of it. That being said, I have pre-purchased the game and hope to see past the game's visual shortcomings so that I may enjoy the other things it has to offer.

I have to agree here. Never liked the art style (very ugly to me)  but it is a moot because a stratagy game does not have to be 'pretty' or look good if it does other things right.  It does look a lot better than WOM but unfortunatly it still has that similar look. 

Reply #87 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting rolando_trish, reply 76



Quoting DrThrash,
reply 23
I am surprised that no one mentioned the Age of Wonders series yet; they are TBS games in the tradition of Master of Magic, just like FE is. The newest game, AoW II Shadow Magic (from 2002!), is still superior to FE is many aspects, most notably user interface, magic, and tactical battles.

I haven't played Fallen Enchantress yet, but I *hope* its magic system is better than AoW II. While a great game in its own right, I feel like AoW has the worst work to payoff ratio out of any MoM based or inspired game barring the original Elemental, including MoM, AoW, Fall From Heaven 2, Warlock, and Dominion 3. You spend incredible amount of time, resources, and manpower to gather mana, research spells, expand your domain, and position troops... all for a handful of uninspired buffs, summons, and attack spells. In MoM you could feed, fund, create, immortalize, mobilize, waylay, cripple, and destroy entire armies, turn the world into a giant lifeless mana battery, and levitate fleets of warship out of the sea. In Dominion 3 you can shroud the world in darkness, summon beings tantamount to gods, and protect your provinces and bolster your work force with an army of illusions. In AoW II...there's one really good high-end attack spell that doesn't rely on inflicting status effects, and those tier four summoned units really come in handy augmenting your army of tier four units that don't require mana.

None of those games have a balanced magic system, but AoW II is balanced in the wrong direction. AoW II's combat system allows you to bring 3 stacks of units onto the field, and often expects or requires you to do so.  A well-placed fireball or a tier four summoned unit can do good damage against a single stack. But three stacks? Not so much. AoW II's magic system is a forecful shove to MoM's punch to the face. When magic is a subsitute for a tech tree, I feel dominance in magic should equate to dominance of the world. And I think that's where a lot of fun in the MoM inspired games come from. In one of the GameInformer articles I read about Elemental, it mentioned that magically was purposefully overpowered. While that was entirely untrue of the final product, I'm hoping that holds true for Fallen Enchantress.

We must be playing different games. AOW2  was very similar to AOW:SM and I can cast spills to make ships fly, they have great buff spells, Great land changing spells and many other different kind of spells. And there is a use for each spell.

As far as tactical battles all units in surrounding squares can be in the battle (6 Hexes) which makes for some epic battles.

The main issue with AOW2 was the lag after turn 100.  AOW:SM corrected this and improved other features. 

Reply #88 from Elemental Forums Top

I have to agree here. Never liked the art style (very ugly to me)  but it is a moot because a strategy game does not have to be 'pretty' or look good if it does other things right.  It does look a lot better than WOM but unfortunately it still has that similar look.

 

I actually used the word 'ugly' in my post originally but I decided to tone it down a bit with an edit. After having played the final release today though I have to say it really does border on ugliness, at least when it comes to the strategic map. The overall look of the land really disappoints with it's sparse topography and children's book type art(the 'ball of foliage' trees are the most egregious offenders). It affects the level of enjoyment and ultimately the suspension of disbelief for me.

Reply #89 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting zonk_1000, reply 89


I have to agree here. Never liked the art style (very ugly to me)  but it is a moot because a strategy game does not have to be 'pretty' or look good if it does other things right.  It does look a lot better than WOM but unfortunately it still has that similar look.

 

I actually used the word 'ugly' at first in my post but I decided to tone it down a bit. After having played the final release today though I have to say it really does border on ugliness, at least when it comes to the strategic map. The overall look of the land really disappoints with it's sparse topography and children's book type art(the 'ball of foliage' trees are the most egregious offenders). It affects the level of enjoyment and ultimately the suspension of disbelief for me.

 

The rivers are what turn me off a lot, they don't integrate into the landscape at all and for some reason are absolutely covered in boulders so much so that it looks like a bad Photoshopping attempt :P

 

The terrain in general needs to be improved, its impossible to know how many movement points will be used up by various terrain and there is no strategic element on the map or tactical element during battles.