BlackRainZ

Trying to figure out how to make this work, please take a look.

Trying to figure out how to make this work, please take a look.

This is just something I was thinking and I haven't really figured out how to simulate it yet. There may be some creative way to suspend disbelief enough that you "feel" like it is working, even if it isn't exactly working the way you hoped.

 

Already in my game, I changed all the populations to be by a factor of 10, so instead of let's saying having a 1000 people in your empire (which in my opinion is just ridiculous) it would be 10,000. So, that is simple to do and I like it personally in my game.

 

What I want to do, is try to figure out a way so that you have the illusion of more men then you actually do. Right now you get units that have 3, 4, 5, etc. men in the unit. I want to find a way to make it seem like there are more people. I was curious if anyone had any creative ideas on how we could make something that has the illusion of more people. I know it would be impossible to have like 30 men in a unit (and actually see those 30 men) for obvious reasons (not enough memory, etc.)

 

Yes, you could just imagine there are 3 men representing 30, or just imagine the hp is the amount of men in the unit, etc. but it's not really doing it for me so I am trying to figure out a way to make it seem more like having a large army, without actually "having" a large army. I hope I am making sense here.

 

Any ideas?

28,437 views 46 replies
Reply #26 Top

Unless there is something in the XML that is making the max men shown to be 20 in tactical, it may be something hardcoded. I don't mind there only being 20 guys there and as men die, it doesn't lessen till the right number. May be fine this way. I don't want to make the numbers different as like a 5 - 10 - 15 combo because that would mean a huge rebalance of weapons, armor etc. 

 

 

Something strange in coreformations which has a standard group of 9, but coreunitgroupingtypes only goes up to 8, what's up with that?

Reply #27 Top

Parrot, if you could get it so 20 guys are lined up in rows of maybe 5, that would be great. I am playing around with the numbers but I can't get the formation to look really nice. I don't mind so much but it might be cooler.

Reply #28 Top

I am wondering if having 20 guys in each unit on the tactical map is going to have a huge impact on tactical or not. There doesn't seem to be any way to limit how many are shown. If you change coreunitgroupingtypes to be a number, like 20, it will show 20 guys even if you limit it in coreformations it seems.

Reply #29 Top

Maybe it would just be easier to leave the armor and weapons as is and just increase sovereign and champions and certain monsters and stuff HP by a factor of ten

 

I don't suppose there is a global hp modifier? heh

Reply #30 Top

Quoting BlackRainZ, reply 26
Something strange in coreformations which has a standard group of 9, but coreunitgroupingtypes only goes up to 8, what's up with that?

They did a recent change. Recall that you used to recruit 3 5 7 9 units. Then they changed it to 3 4 5 7 four our recruitment.

Reply #31 Top

Interesting experiment BlackRainZ, even if 20 guys per unit is the limit of what can be shown, it would still increase the scale of battles almost threefold. Unless there is a way around the 9 unit per army maximum?

Could you post a few screenshots of what you have so far?

Reply #32 Top

Hmm, I will look into the 9 unit per army maximum and see if there is anything that can be done. I will also show some screenshots of the 20 guys in a bit.

 

This is my new idea, I thought about it and would like to hear thoughts.

 

I was thinking of really altering the way the game is played in these ways:

 

For one, Units would be sizes of 5 - 10 - 15 - 20

 

This way in the early game when populations are low, 5 men groups makes sense and as time goes by and populations grow, larger groups will be available. I have also increased population by a factor of 10. I plan to change how population grows significantly so that the beginning game, pop will grow slowly and you won't see very large populations but as your city develops, they will grow very large (population wise, as in 10's of thousands of people in larger cities) This way empires feel more like empires. 

 

Also, units will use population so that will be something to consider and I do want armies to be in the thousands of men. Not thousands of units obviously but thousands of men. 

 

I want to make it very easy to recruit units, even ones with armor. The way I see it is, it does not take a whole season to train a handful of guys, no matter what armor they are using. Taking years to train 5 or 6 guys with armor is ridiculous. I want to make it so that units are trained very quickly and can get out there fighting in large battles. Champions and Sovereigns will get a slight boost in HP but doing the units 5-10-15-20 means I do not have to edit armor or weapons. I will just need to edit the hp of champions and some monsters. Since units are being trained quickly and will require population, population may become a real concern. I also want to make units require 3 population for each man in a unit, I will give my reasoning below.

 

The way I see it is this, even though you have a population of 1000, that doesn't mean you have 1000 people available as soldiers. So if I make each man cost 3 pop, it sort of simulates the idea of having less people available for recruitment and it will make pop more important. (I may make that number 3, still thinking about it) It isn't a perfect system but I think it will do a good job. This will also make it so I can still give benefits to those who use slaves and also to Tarth which is more likely to have female units.

 

Obviously anyone can make a female or male unit but I want to look at it in a more realistic way and in my opinion, most factions wont use female soldiers. I see Tarth as a sort of amazon type faction so they will. Tarth will only use 2 population instead of 3 when recruiting in a unit. Slave type factions will use no population for slave units and a normal 3 for other units that aren't slaves (I haven't used slave factions yet so not sure if all they can train is slaves or if they also have normal units, I think they have normal units too)

 

I am also considering giving units a gold cost. It should cost gold when recruiting units in my opinion so I am thinking that each man should cost 3 gold. A 5 man unit will cost 15 gold, a 10 man unit 30 gold, a 15 man unit 45 gold and a 20 man unit 60 gold. This makes gold a little more important and more realistic in my opinion.

 

Slaves will require no gold, also golems will require no gold and juggernauts too. 

 

Training any unit should only be 1 or 2 turns in my opinion so giving it a gold cost and it costing population will make it more balanced and will give gold and population more importance, in my opinion. In the later game you will have cities with populations in the 10's of thousands so population wont be a big deal anymore (which is the way it should be) but it will still give you the immersion of actually recruiting people and may be a concern still for smaller cities (which may also make you want to recruit men from a larger city instead)

 

This adds more strategy and some extra choices. 

 

Opinions?



---- Edit---- Also, the idea is that you will need multiple armies to take cities. Cities will be able to garrison many many units so a well defended city will be difficult to take without firepower.

Reply #33 Top

Let me just add, that's not all I want to do. I want to have every city type have their own kinds of walls or walls that give different kinds of benefits and bonuses. I want to have city militia that has armor (I am still debating with myself if that armor should upgrade as you research new armors or should stay as leather) If possible, I want to have unique armors for each faction and new spells, etc. That all depends on how much help I get. I can't do graphics myself so I would need someone to help out with that. I have a lot of ideas which I actually already am doing in my own game but just not sure yet what I will put into a mod (if there is interest anyway). Sean already does some good stuff and of course Heaven as well so perhaps I will build on some of their ideas or even use some of their stuff (with permission of course) and just add in other things I like.

Reply #34 Top

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2k2kprunhngs25n/FallenEnchantress_1349989712.jpg

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1wqrzdzesfq143/FallenEnchantress_1349989721.jpg

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s0s0gh88bbjhbmz/FallenEnchantress_1349989772.jpg

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9w0awmtm9td7ylo/FallenEnchantress_1349989781.jpg

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u2u1s817ws7206y/FallenEnchantress_1349989799.jpg

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7wodr0h1drkl5r9/FallenEnchantress_1349989810.jpg

 

Pics of 30 man units, only shows 20 though

Reply #35 Top

The max 9 units is moddable in the ElementalDefs. 

Reply #36 Top

I only see max units for garrisoning in a city, which I knew about. I don't see the line of code for max units in a stack though.

Reply #37 Top

Oops. I was thinking of the stationed units number. I guess I thought it did both. 

Reply #38 Top

Ok I was able to find out how to get more then 9 units in a stack, that is easy. The problem is that when you go into battle, only 9 units show up on the battlefield. Now need to find out if that is hardcoded or that is something which can be changed in the XML.

Reply #39 Top

I thought they fixed that in beta 3. Guess it needs to be addressed along with the problems I am getting with city defense.

Reply #40 Top

It is limited by the number of starting positions in tactical combat maps. Cities have more for defenders (16) while normal maps only have 9 for everyone. If you want to increase the number of units you can just edit the maps' XML to put more positions in there.

Reply #41 Top

I didn't know that. I will do that! Perhaps we will be able to have larger armies and battles after all.

Reply #42 Top

I am assuming you mean it is modified by these codes

 

<!--TACTICAL ATTACKER STARTING LOCATIONS-->

<AttackerStart>8,15</AttackerStart>
<AttackerStart>9,14</AttackerStart>
<AttackerStart>9,16</AttackerStart>
<AttackerStart>10,17</AttackerStart>
<AttackerStart>10,13</AttackerStart>
<AttackerStart>10,15</AttackerStart>
<AttackerStart>11,14</AttackerStart>
<AttackerStart>11,16</AttackerStart>
<AttackerStart>12,15</AttackerStart>

<!--TACTICAL DEFENDER STARTING LOCATIONS-->

<DefenderStart>17,15</DefenderStart>
<DefenderStart>18,15</DefenderStart>
<DefenderStart>17,14</DefenderStart>
<DefenderStart>17,16</DefenderStart>
<DefenderStart>18,13</DefenderStart>
<DefenderStart>16,15</DefenderStart>
<DefenderStart>18,17</DefenderStart>
<DefenderStart>19,14</DefenderStart>
<DefenderStart>19,16</DefenderStart>

 

So just adding in more would mean more units. 

Reply #43 Top

Cool. I will have to add 20 more starting locations to larger maps.

Reply #44 Top


This is awesome stuff here blackrainz.

Reply #45 Top

Problem is figuring out the two position numbers to put in there. I guess it isn't that difficult really, just takes time to get it right.

Reply #46 Top

Sounds like when I used to build buildings from the xml. Very tricky, but fun to say you did.