Bandit leader

I think it is still useless compared to: Warlock (+ 50 % spell damage), Armorer (+ 25 % defense) and General (+ 25 % xp).

Those are the ones I almost always pick!  

If only some clever person had laid the groundwork for a better balance and more interesting options for Sov creation. I bet the devs would take a look and update the current options. 

Same... No reason to pick the others for me either.

Sincerely
~ K

I agree that some of these abilities might need some work to be on line with others...  but I personally think Summoner, Warlord and Beastlord are just as useful as the 3 you mentioned depending on your playstyle.

edit: diplomat is also really, REALLY good

Oh right, I don't pick general, I pick "Warlord" but that is for my games where all my heroes pick path of the governor (AKA they all become useless ;))

Beastlord isn't really worth much, and summoner is much worse, compared to having way powerful heroes, one little bear/spider wont do much. We might agree to disagree though.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Another pass on these for balance would be great.

I don't get much out of summoner, I think it could really be good though, with the right build, I dont think it really needs changed.  But noble seems pretty puny.  I might be wrong on that, but it seems fairly worthless.  I tried beastmaster once, but the no range and long casting time of it often got me killed trying to use it, it could be really good.  I tore a game up getting a collar and a cave bear early.  But bandit lord seems the weakest.  

my 7 year-old chooses bandit lord every time.  i think he likes the security of having some extra troops protecting his sovereign.  so we have at least one person using it.

Bandit Lord still sucks.  The bandits have no impactful growth per level and get one-shotted by anything that isn't a Mite

Per my last suggestion the 2 starter bandits should grow another body as they level (as seen on other units)

The Bandit Lord could also get a Recruit Mercenary skill similar to the Recruit Beast skill

The above would still only be good in early game, but far more of an impact and value without going OP

Summoner would be useful if there were more creatures in the game that could be summoned and if the chance of getting the summoner traits would be higher for a summoner.

Warlord would be useful with a 75 % reduction and if the wealthy trait would not do basically the same.

Beastlord would be useful if the spell had a range and a lower casting time.

Diplomat is nice, but it is not as useful as the combat professions, because the combat gives you xp and loot.

Armorer and General are the only ones I ever pick.  Lately, with the reduces hero levels, I favor general.

They, and Warlock are the only ones that both have a real impact and remain useful until the end.  Warlock is a mage trait, though, and mages are ineffective at the difficulty settings at which I play.

I recently tried out Nobility, it was handy to have when all the ai went aggro on me.  Plus my cities did grow fairly fast.

I wish Summoner would get some love, mostly in an increased list  to choose from.  Maybe each magic school had some more units but you needed to be a summoner to select them...

Beastlord should work as well as those items do.

Agreed. There is an advantage to having it, but it's rather small and seems pretty trivial compared to some other traits. You do get a higher level unit, but even then you still have to spend a decent amount of mana to get the units, plus maintenance on them.

I don't think warlord should be increased in potency, hopefull the trained units will be worth more to players soon, and that will mean the warlord trait will see more use, 50% wage reduction is incredibly strong. As long as the units are needed.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

The problem with summoner is not the trait or the amount of summons, but the summoned unit quality, they are only worth any juice early game.

Sincerely
~ K

Yes summoned units should get attack/defense/dodge bonuses per level.  There's a reason that the crow line is the only bound elementals I use.

You want an instant, trivially easy to implement fix to the summoner class? Have it add perks to the summons. +1 something per level.

Beastlord really isn't useless, I play as it almost every game.  In the first 5 turns I'll usually have a a widow helping my sov and a few wolves doing my exploration.  

I think we also need more talents and weaknesses.  I made post once of a couple.

Summoner would be nice if there were more things to summon, and they were more powerful/useful.

Would definitely like to see this in vanilla, but if it isn't done, perhaps I will create a mod to make all these better.

Sad thing is, I feel like this in quite a few places by now

Sincerely
~ Kogndej

I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean it seems like a lot of the stuff people are hoping for isn't in the game and people (like me) keep saying we will just mod it in? Or do you mean something else?

If they don't change it, what else can we do?

Those bandits are 2 free scouts/explorers, or exellent cannon fodder for your first battles. Combined with a sovereign that has alot of good fighting abilities from the start off, it can mean turbo leveling up indeed. The synergy effects should not be underestimated. 

I usually combine bandit lord with a bad ass fighting sovereign with no magic..... Urxen blood is a good combination for instance, since those 2 bandits fast can give you a 5 unit army for that 2+attack bonus.