[0.982] Assassins and Wargs

from Elemental Forums

The critical chance of + 15 % is great, but the critical damage should be reduced to + 25 % to make critical hits less deadly. To reduce the deadly effect of critical hits further Vital Strike should be changed, too:

Vital Strike (currently):

+ 2 % / 3 % / 4 % critical chance, + 20 % / 30 % / 40 % critical damage

Vital Strike (changed):

+ 5 % / 5 % / 5 % critical chance, + 5 % / 10 % / 10 % critical damage

 

Shadow Strike is currently too powerful, because the damage of the assassin is much higher than the damage of the warrior, but the assassin has no disadvantage compared to the warrior.

Shadow Strike (currently):

+ 25 % / 25 % / 25 % armor penetration

Shadow Strike (changed):

+ 15 % / 15 % / 20 % armor penetration

Encumbrance (currently):

+ 0

- 2 initiative

- 4 initiative

- 6 initiative

Encumbrance (changed):

+ 0

- 2 initiative, - 5 dodge

- 4 initiative, - 10 dodge

- 6 initiative, - 15 dodge

 

The Wargs are not powerful enough compared to the Horses, because they require more research and gildar.

Wargs (currently):

+ 1 movement, + 2 initiative, + 10 dodge, + 15 dodge against ranged, + 100 prone avoidance

Wargs (changed):

+ 1 movement, + 3 initiative, + 10 dodge, + 15 dodge against ranged, + 100 prone avoidance

6,119 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

wargs are op guys... 10 dodge 15 vs ranged

dodge is so so much op

the rest doesnt matter when you get nearly immune to dmg

 

about crit i agree

crit dmg shoudl go down

crit chance higher

 

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting ddd888, reply 1
wargs are op guys... 10 dodge 15 vs ranged

dodge is so so much op

the rest doesnt matter when you get nearly immune to dmg

Good point. I think the dodge bonus of Horses should be reduced to + 15 vs ranged and Wargs should have a dodge bonus of + 15 vs ranged, too, and no additional dodge bonus.

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

One of the problems with reduction of crit damage is that you are basing it on very high level heroes. I personally don't play just with heroes and I don't spend three levels getting the potential trait. I fully understand that I'm not min maxing. Now if you want a to introduce a damage soft cap when you combine all the skills, then fine, but if not then just capping the skill will be detrimental over all.

 

I have an assassin on a warg in my current game. The only way I can keep him from getting eaten is if I run him in when he has an 'extra' turn so that he can run away before the monster can go. So it isn't the warg dodge. It has to be some combination of the way you have built the hero and the warg bonus.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

 

The Wargs are not powerful enough compared to the Horses, because they require more research and gildar.

Wargs (currently):

+ 1 movement, + 2 initiative, + 10 dodge, + 15 dodge against ranged, + 100 prone avoidance

Wargs (changed):

+ 1 movement, + 3 initiative, + 10 dodge, + 15 dodge against ranged, + 100 prone avoidance

Even with the horse losing it's initiative bonus, it's still better than the warg.

Imo, Wargs should be:

+ 1 movement, + 3 initiative, + 3 attack, + 10 dodge, + 15 dodge against ranged, + 100 prone avoidance

Afterall, them wargs have teeth too... :wulf:

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

yes the only good melee in game is defender right now

you get the best stuff and the dmg you lose with shield or not having many offensive traits is not so huge

assassins are not viable, they take too much dmg while not doing enough

if you want to build a glass cannon just make a warrior with 2h, the dmg is way more massive at least

but like you said end game scaling is towards crit, with vital strike path of assa and some other crit end game is super good

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting GFireflyE, reply 5

Even with the horse losing it's initiative bonus, it's still better than the warg.

Imo, Wargs should be:

+ 1 movement, + 3 initiative, + 3 attack, + 10 dodge, + 15 dodge against ranged, + 100 prone avoidance

Afterall, them wargs have teeth too...

The attack bonus would be great, but it would be strange if your hero inflicts more damage with a bow, because he sits on a warg :)

 

Quoting ddd888, reply 6
yes the only good melee in game is defender right now

you get the best stuff and the dmg you lose with shield or not having many offensive traits is not so huge

assassins are not viable, they take too much dmg while not doing enough

Hmmm, i think the assassin is currently even more powerful than the defender, because he can ignore 75 % of the defense and can inflict very high damage with a critical hit.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

yeah probably end game they are doing more dmg

 

also there is no reason not to use a 2h on the assassin :P

 

try a serrated greatsword :D

 

still they may die against some monsters, dunno about ai you can too much outmaneuver them

 

 

 

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Wizard1200, reply 7


The attack bonus would be great, but it would be strange if your hero inflicts more damage with a bow, because he sits on a warg 

Champs current allow for crit damage when casting spells....why not ranged damage while on a warg? XD

Maybe Stardock should just remove the ability to have ranged weapons attached while mounted....

I know it exists historically....but we can pretend this fantasy world hasn't figured it out yet. XD

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting fenwe, reply 3
One of the problems with reduction of crit damage is that you are basing it on very high level heroes. I personally don't play just with heroes and I don't spend three levels getting the potential trait. I fully understand that I'm not min maxing. Now if you want a to introduce a damage soft cap when you combine all the skills, then fine, but if not then just capping the skill will be detrimental over all.


Hmmm

I get what your saying, dont balance for the powergamers. But on the other hand what measure do we use, the casual gamer? whats averager or common? Part of the difficulty of balancing I suppose. 


Quoting fenwe, reply 3

I have an assassin on a warg in my current game. The only way I can keep him from getting eaten is if I run him in when he has an 'extra' turn so that he can run away before the monster can go. So it isn't the warg dodge. It has to be some combination of the way you have built the hero and the warg bonus.

Warg dodge is good becuase dodge is good and there are limited ways to get more dodge. Pre latest patch I sometimes would use a super dodger, almost never gets hit.

Its not hard or complicated to do, just put anything plus dodge on your troop when you make them. Not as good now tho dodge is reduced. Makes having a warg more important then ever.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting GFireflyE, reply 9
I know it exists historically....but we can pretend this fantasy world hasn't figured it out yet.

 

Potential Customer: So how would you describe the world of Elemental?

GFireflyE: Well, it's alot like this world, except there is magic and the physics prevent wood from floating or arrows from being fired at elevations above 6 feet. 

Potential Customer: Wow, that is oddly specific...

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 11



Quoting GFireflyE,
reply 9
I know it exists historically....but we can pretend this fantasy world hasn't figured it out yet.


 

Potential Customer: So how would you describe the world of Elemental?

GFireflyE: Well, it's alot like this world, except there is magic and the physics prevent wood from floating or arrows from being fired at elevations above 6 feet. 

Potential Customer: Wow, that is oddly specific...

And yet they would still buy cause it's turning into such an awesome game!