[0.981 BALANCE] Hit Points too low? I'm taking a lot of one-shot deaths.

describe situations that one shots you...

because the new spells are op, if you die from a despair its not cause of hp settings

if you die against mites then we can talk about it

one example is archers and mages with 5 in a stack.

dunno i usually dont start wars early in the game and i generally have armor

but mages got strongly buffed last patch i think so maybe now they are op against low hp

The only issue I see with the current hp settings are the Hero HP only was changed from 15 base to 16 base.

and Paridens and Resolns troops are ridiculously weak in HP...

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

I cleared the whole map with my sovereign and no units/summons. I had about 200 hp at the end. At no point was I getting oneshot at fights that were at my level

It was ridiculously high before.  It feels better than it was now certainly.  But there's a lot of strong creatures that deal more damage than sovs and champs have max hp.  I guess defense would protect against that...  Or cannon fodder.  I prefer needing the fodder to not needing other troops at all.

Yeah, the blood flaw of -1 hp per level is really punishing now. I had a resoln champion go practically useless after suffering a -25% hitpoint injurybecause it was basically all the bonus I had gotten for a level 6 hero.

I don't think the hitpoints should go up, I like how it was changed. Heroes can't kill everything on their own now unless they're seriously tweaked out. That's how it should be. Getting killed by archers? Get a belt of precognition. Getting hammered by fire mages? Get some fire resistance!

There might be a problem with mages but it was only the hp gain from leveling that was nerfed. It was a very good change in my opinion.

yes in general i think it was ok too, but didnt test really that much

Yup, Resoln/Pariden now really get the shaft (and Gilden gets a boost). Suddenly it's a penalty (or bonus) of 50% per level when it was just 25% before...

I think the Hp progression is at a good level. Now we need to add a global bonus of +6Hp to balance out the Hp we are missing from levels.

Noooo

Id say start heroes and sovereigns at 18hp +lvl, and fix the 2 bloodlines, but thats it >_<

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

+18Hp instead of +17 seems rather pointless. I have been playing around with Hp values for awhile now. It is better to have a general base around 10Hp and have level add about 20% on top. A lower base means the early game is a glass cannon fest. A higher Hp per level means high level units become unkillable. Try it out before you dismiss it out of hand. The way you think it will play out is often wrong.

end game is not hp to make champions unkillable is dodge +resist+ armor etc

few hps dont matter at all

in fact i think it doesnt change much anyway, this seems a pointless balance change, whatever is fine to me

im more in favor of sean view if i have to vote, i rather have a few more hp when things are not yet settled and when an unlucky dodge/crit/resist may cause a rng death

by mid/end game you should have developed your champions and built your army to prevent rng from deciding the  fights

Ahem...my Tarth hero and fellow champion got owned by a few mites that decided to blind both of them.  Mind you it was on expert level, but we're  talking about mites here!  Anyway, i'm not arguing one way or another.

I really like the hp reduction.

As to Gilden getting a bonus, they have the least magic and so have to rely on melee combat more.

As to Paradin and Resolin, they depend on magic, each in a differnt way. They should focus there efforts there...

Mites have gotten a bit stronger. Well, a lot stronger. I like the challenge because once your heroes are past level 4, mites still can't do much to you...so they're really good early game forces.

The base right now is 16.

The +2 hp will help resoln and pariden most, but will help you survive that 1 blow with a few hp left.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

The devs keep taking monsters in weird directions. In my mod, mites are the cockroaches of the realm. In the vanilla, they are the most powerful death mages of all time... 

Death mages? But yea the changes to mites weirded me out too
Psst, that why you wait with modding

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Blind is a death mage spell. Not for mites. I wouldn't give it to bears either, that's just me. If you played my mod, mites are the most annoying breeder lairs. They can spawn up to 10 armies that do just enough damage to make you go back home, but don't give enough XP to level. The point of monsters should be to cause pain and suffering to players. I don't want to kill you, just make you suffer until you ragequit without knowing why. Then come back after 30min of TF2 and start it all over again. 

There needs to be a way form getting from level 1 to 2.  That used to be beating up on creatures such as mites.  That is no longer the case, so I ask....how the F**k do I level my crappy tarth sovereign with -8 initiative and a pee shooter when the worst creatures in the game are now dark sorcerer clones?

Your thinking about darklings.

Sincerely
~ Kongdek

... So all of this talk is nonsense.. seriously what the hell? When did you guys all become as bad at balancing as stardock?

Who the fuck cares if your heroes are invincible at high levels? They damn well should be when they are up against 200hp armies of units. The problem isn't that they are sturdy mother fuckers to take down. The problem is that their sturdiness has -nothing- to do with technology. Trying to fix this gaping nonsensical disconnect with another completedly disconnected solution makes me want to throw my computer out the window.

---> Make hero levels soft capped (75% xp reduction) based on specific technologies and increase their hp per level to be competitive with regular units at comparitive technologies. <----

Interesting. I could actually see some logic in an XP soft cap. The XP curve is already exponential. I could increase the exponent and add in some XP bonuses from Hero techs. There would be unit bonuses in the warfare tree of course. I just might try that. Any specific numbers you want to throw out?

yes increasing exp to champions on magic tree seems a good idea

still its not what balance things because tree is just not really that cool anyway

but its a start