Dean 2004 = McGovern 1972?

Similiarities Between the Two Campaigns

http://www.multied.com/elections/1972.html
Let me begin by saying I worked for George McGovern in 1972. It was a disaster, much worse than the man deserved. It was a severe setback for Liberal politics in America. I see Howard Dean falling into the same pattern now.

In 1972, Richard Nixon was the incumbent President. Our nation was involved in the Vietnam war, which had become highly unpopular by that time. The nation was polarized around the war. The Democratic party favorite seemed to be Hubert H. Humphrey, who had served as our Vice President under Lyndon Johnson. Senator Muskie also appeared as a strong candidate. But George McGovernmounted a grass roots campaign that tapped into the discontent in the country, marshalled a force of young and idealistic supporters and won the Democratic nomination.

Almost immediately, McGovern's campaign began to fall apart. Like Howard Dean, McGovern had offended much of the Democratic leadership. He offered Humphrey an opportunity to run as his Vice Presidential running mate and Humphrey turned him down. Emphatically. McGovern then offered the position to Thomas Eagleton. Rumors arose that Eagleton had received shock treatments for depression. Eagleton denied those rumors and McGovern said that he was behind Eagleton "one thousand percent." Two weeks later the rumors proved to be true and McGovern had to ask Eagleton to step aside, which he grudgingly did. Sargent Shriver, a member of the Kennedy family became the new Vice Presidential candiidate. Dean appears to suffer from much the same "foot in mouth" disease.

McGovern had campaigned through the primary as a Democratic outsider, opposed to the war. As an outsider he didn't have the resources to unite the party behind him. Gore's surprise endosement of Dean over Leiberman has surely alienated the Leiberman camp and it seems doubtful to me that even if Dean wins the nomination that Leiberman's supporters will rally around the candidate. Dean has said that if he were elected members of Congress were "going to be scurrying for shelter, just like a giant flashlight on a bunch of cockroaches." Doesn't he understand that the very people that he just called cockroaches are the same ones that he will need to get their constituents to vote for him?

McGovern was portrayed by the Republicans as a radical leftist. You can't run for President by just being against your opponents ideas. McGovern came out in favor of a guaranteed annual income for each American family. This is not all that different from today's Living Wage discussion, but was seen by many middle-class voters as a new "welfare state."

The upshot was that Richard Nixon won by the largest plurality in history. However, in the course of the election, Nixon had ordered the break in to the Democratic offices at the Watergate hotel and conspired to cover-up the event. The White House tapes showed Nixon to be paranoid in the extreme, seeing all who opposed him as "enemies." He should have been vulnerable to an opponent that was politically experienced. Now please note that I do NOT think that President Bush is anything like Nixon. I do think, however, that Howard Dean is making many of the same mistakes that George McGovern made.

To become President you must:

1- Convince the Americn people that you have a vision for America that is superior to your opponents. If Howard Dean has such a vision, he has failed to annunciate to my ears. Here is Howard Dean's own position from his website: http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=FA1F1A12-2A30-4439-85B593128A50B138
Maybe you see someting that I don't, but I don't see any specific remedies.

2- You can't run on a single issue unless it is so powerful that it galvanizes the majority of Americans. McGovern ran on his opposition to the war in Vietnam and Dean is running on his opposition to the war in Iraw. Let me quote from Dean's own site. "But it is his condemnation of the Bush policy against Iraq that has set him apart from the rest of the major Democratic contenders" Most Americans today approve of the way President Bush is handling the situation in Iraq. (Source: Gallup Poll, 61% in favor. http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm)

3- You have to be able to unite your own party. George Bush senior ran against Ronald Reagan for the Republican nomination, was in fact quite critical of Reagan's ideas, then accepted the Vice Presidential nomination and presented a united front. Wesley Clark for example has already said that he will NOT be Dean's running mate. Even if Dean wins the nomination, I doubt that he can unite the Democrats behind him. My suggestion would be that Howard Dean begin using the phrase "my esteemed colleague" in every debate. No more name calling.

I don't think that any Democrat is going to beat George Bush, particuarly if the economy continues to improve. But I do think that a more polished campaign would get some important issues on the table, might add some seats in Congress and lays the groundwork for a successful campaign in 2008. On the other hand, a poorly run campaign will leave the Democratic party in tatters, too fractionalized to make any impact.
14,169 views 22 replies
Reply #1 Top
I think Dean has a good chance of messing up the Democratic nomination with a tantrum or even an unglamorous, off-the-cuff personal interpretation of his own policies. If he does allow more eloquent souls to foster him to the general election, I think he can expect a less liberal, third party opponent to be the spoiler. Maybe the Green party again? lol...

I hate to crowd in with the more paranoid right, but I think the Democratic party is comfortable with losing the next election. If they win, great, but I think they feel that an incumbent President that cut taxes and overthrew 2 horrible nations in 3 years is pretty much unbeatable. They are banking on Bush having a less militarily glorified second term, and the ability to blame every normal hiccup and cold season in the economy on his economic policies. He has an unelectable vice president, as well, at least for his first term.

If Dean has a close election, I think Dean 2004 = Hillary in 2008. I have already heard Democrats crying over their coffee that Hillary didn't run this time. If she had it would have been really close, but I can't come up with a single Republican that could beat her in 2008, unfortunately.
Reply #2 Top
Bakerstreet, you may well be right that the Democrats are willing to cede the coming election. President Bush is very popular, with high approval ratings. It is difficult, well-nigh impossible to defeat an incumbent President during time of war. However, a poor showing by the candidate can cost seats in Congress and leave the party in shambles.

Looking ahead to 2008, with George Bush out of the picture, who becomes the heir apparent for the Republicans? I think that Dick Cheney would be considered too old. Colin Powell versus Hillary? Improbable, but what an election that would be!
Reply #3 Top
There are new developments to the Bush campaign which will weaken his poll numbers by election time. One concerns the Vice President being indicted for bribery and hidden income. Recall how Bush,Sr. also had a 60% rating in time of war and it fell as election neared. One bomb on American soil and the light goes red, martial law declared and the attitude of Americans to a interference with getting to work or buying food, and the numbers will change. Stocks will drop precipitously. Gold, which is 100% held by the informed, will skyrocket through $500.00 and ounce like a knife through butter, and there's Dean sitting there saying, "See, I told you so"

In the end I'll vote for neither a Republirat nor a Republirat, as they are both part of the same problem. Jesse Jackson could not withstand the 'controlled media' of these two Party 's control of public information. Jerry Brown couldn't withstand it. Ross Perot couldn't withstand it. Pat Buchanon couldn't withstand it. Still, there are today more Americans who support third-Party candidacy in this Country than at any time in last hundred years because of the contributions they made to our right to free choice in our politics.

To me it doesn't matter if "my guy" wins or loses. What matters is that I tell my kids I supported the Candidate I believed held American interests in his heart and actions. My brother has to live with his fanatical support for Nixon in 1972 by neglecting to mention it in his discussions as a Democrat today. Me, I never felt more meaningful or proud of my vote than when I pulled a lever for Ross Perot. I never supported those who history tells us were anti-American in their intent and am glad I had the sense to not be prey to the Republirat System. It feels good to say, as Lynyrd Skynyrd said, "Now Watergate does not bother me, does your conscience bother you?"

So, don't worry about it yet. The 'controlled media' hasn't started on Dean because he poses no threat to the status quo. Hillary may still be a Robert Kennedy if things continue as they are. Let's see where it goes.For now, Dean is the only Candidate who is distinguishing himself and not becoming reactionary.
Reply #4 Top
My son voted for the Green Party, because he says the Democrats and Republicans are the same. Even though the two parties have come very close in some things, when it comes to things like strikes and the electricity crisis in the West, there is a great difference between parties. The only way a third part could make a good difference would be if they could get the people who aren't registered and don't vote to come to the polls. Unfortunately third parties just take away from one of the other two parties.
I don't understand how people can like Bush or see his presidency as remotely good, but they do. Since effective pliticians win elections, the Democrats or independent party needs to come up with a program that the America people will buy. So far the Democrats haven't come up with one and neither have the independents.
Reply #5 Top
Sherye, I don't see how you could claim his presidency as remotely bad, but you do. Imagine that? ;)

Reply #6 Top
I dont' think so. I think all you have to do is have money and get your face on TV a lot. Dean has the aura of a crook! I can't expect everyone to see that because I have been gifted. I am working with Kucinich.

Bush won through money. The American public (I have lived in many states and around the world) is apathetic and could care less for the most part. I use to be one of them and looking back on it now I see how it works. And those that think they know what is going on are really just playing the media game for the most part with few excpetions to the rule.

Kucinich is the first politician that had an aura of integrity that I have seen in a long time. Many presidents have come and gone in my life and I have voted for some of them. Today I make the time to educate myself and research all candidates. I have spent my life voting for the lessor of two evils and always on the outside of politics looking in. Today I am in the middle and learning all I can so that I can make a decision that is for the betterment of all the peoples in this country instead of crying or complaining about republican or democratic status.
Reply #7 Top
Wahkonta Anathema, unfortunately for you, the election acually occurs here on Earth and not in lunatic conspiracy land. So don't hold your breath waiting for the black UN helicopters to scoop up Bush and take him to the mother ship.
Reply #8 Top
As an intern for U.S. Senator Joseph Clark, I worked across the hall from U.S. Senator George McGovern. When he announced his brief and generally forgotten campaign for the Democratic Presidential nomination in 1968 after Robert Kennedy was assassinated, I was one of those standing in back of him. I attended the 1972 Convention on his behalf, and worked for his nomination and election. In 2004, I am actively supporting Howard Dean.
Howard Dean is no George McGovern. McGovern's prairie populism had a radical component. McGovern's doctoral dissertation was on a long Colorado miner's strike. Howard Dean earned an M.D., not a Ph.D. Twenty-four years before being nominated for President, McGovern suppported third party nominee Henry Wallace against President Truman. Twenty four years ago, Dean supported President Carter against liberal challenger Ted Kennedy.
McGovern organized the country from lists of liberals and radicals. Dean organized the country from the Internet. McGovern activists tended to be highly motivated ideologues. Dean activists tend to be highly motivated fed-up centrists. McGovern delegates rebelled against McGovern's leadership at the 1972 Convention. Dean delegates will not allow Dean to look weak at his convention.
In South Dakota, McGovern embodied the liberal left. In Vermont, Dean has been shackled with a strong third-party movement inspired by U.S. Congressman Bernard Sanders, a self-proclaimed socialist. Dean always had to appeal to conservatives because about 10% of the electorate was for a left-wing third party in opposition to him.
1968 Presidential nominee Hubert Humphrey, an embittered former ally of McGovern, ran against him in the 1972 Democratic Primaries and emerged as his most vitriolic critic. 2000 Democratic nominee Al Gore is enthusiastically supporting Dean, along with his 2000 opponent Bill Bradley.
Not since 1896 (William Jennings Bryan) had the Democrats nominated a candidate like McGovern. Howard Dean is ideologically simpatico with Al Gore. Dean's strategy of reaching out to mobilize the Democratic base--using recently developed organizing tools--is the strategy that put Franklin D. Roosvelt, John Kennedy, and Jimmy Carter in the White House. Even Bill Clinton's vaunted outreach across the ideological spectrum only netted him 43% in 1992, less than losers Hubert Humphrey in 1968, Michael Dukakis in 1988, and Al Gore in 2000.
Party organizations always fear new organized armies of people. But the Dean army is reinforcements and not a hostile takeover. The Dean ascendancy will prove to be a major positive development for the Democratic Party for many years to come.
Reply #9 Top
I should have said above that not since 1896 had the Democrats first nominated a candidate like George McGovern. History buffs will recall that William Jennings Bryan was also nominated in 1900 and 1908 and died as a possible candidate in 1924. Prairie populism had a strong base in the pre-New Deal Democratic Party. Howard Dean, a former stockbroker descended from a line of stockbrokers, is no prairie populist.
Reply #10 Top
McGovern was an extraordinary man and WWII hero; he is now an elder statesman, though still not listened to. In another era he might have won, but in those dark days of Vietnam, the majority was still as now in favor of military power and pride win or lose.
Reply #11 Top
Saddams capture was the darkest day of Dr Deans life and he proclaimed that the world is no safer with Hussein in custody, then he claimed that we must not pre judge Bin Laden, he refers to Hamas terrorists as, "soldiers." Dr Dean doesn’t even believe his own rhetoric; he just throws it out there and waits for reaction. Dr Dean has to clarify exactly what he meant about some bazaar off the cuff remark that left everyone scratching their heads almost every day.
Sharpton is the personification of today’s Democrat, only street thug Sharpton can save the Democrat “potty.”

I don’t like all of Bush’s policies, for one thing I am not crazy about Bush’s new policy with Mexico, I agree with Bill O Reilly’s thesis, I don’t want to see millions of these guys “doing the Samba” across our borders, that is madness, we need more security on the border and less immigration.
The Bush policies that I disagree with pales in comparison to what the Democrats propose, it scares me to death to think of Dr Dean or one of these other democrat scarecrows, Jack Trippering their way through the white house, we would be finished. The only thing about Dean that is similar to McGovern hopefully will be what happens to him in the general election.
Reply #12 Top
I pray for the sake of your country that someone beats Bush. How can you support a man who plainly lied to lead your nation into war? I personally believe that Clark is the best candidate, but the Democratic party have a lot of work to do before the elections, and it's not like Bush has given them a shortage of issues to attack him on - it amazes me that they would try to impeach a president for lying about getting his dick sucked, but not impeach a man who lies about the reasons for going to war, and leads to a great many deaths, including those of Americans. I find your view that the economy is "improving" to also be intriguing, of course it's improving, there's only one way that it could go from where it was, it's still a shambles compared to anywhere it's been since 1929, and given the continued astronomical cost of Bush's military operations, I don't see the country being out of the red for some time to come.
Reply #14 Top
While Dean may equal Mcgovern, nutball2004. As far as I can see Dean is not in the lead as far as the nomination is concerned. So perhaps you should "calculate that"?
Reply #15 Top
How polite of you to ask, I already have. (the dirt here)

At this point in 72, no one was confident that McGovern would win (not even his staff). He didn't even have a majority at the convention.

As far as the lead for the nomination, no one has it yet. The latest national poll I can find has Dean in the lead. His only real competition nationally (at this point, also see latest polls from CA and NY) is Clark, who is nuts.
Reply #16 Top
Now that's not polite... If clark loses I'm out thirty bucks, so I should hope he'll win. Besides, the kind of dems that would vote for Dean, are the kind that don't tend to vote in the early nominations Besides, despite the prediction listed in your report, Kerry won the Iowa nomination
Reply #17 Top
I sympathize with your predicament. However I must clarify one factual error. I did not predict that Dean would win in Iowa, in fact, I wrote it off. To continue the McGovern = Dean analogy, McGovern became a national condenter in Iowa. In this election, by the time Iowa rolled around, Dean had already become a national contender, so he did not need a win in Iowa to appear on the radar screen. The equality in this case is McGovern Iowa = Dean Internet/Media blitz.

I also don't know how you can write off Dean's supporters as being people who don't vote in the early nominations. If we take money as a proxy for firmness of support (I don't know that we have another metric), we can make a plausible argument that Dean has the supporters most likely to turn out for voting.

Clark has not yet had any real test of his ability to "take the heat" in national politics, so at this point he is the most completely unproven of any of the candidates.

Now if you got good odds on Clark (say 6:1), I think that's a good bet.

nutball

Reply #18 Top
True, but to quote a gallop poll, http://www.gallup.com/ Kerry is ahead of Dean in New Hamapshire by 12% and Clark is only 5% behind Dean, with a margin of +/-4%. Making Dean and Clark essentially even. I suspect that Dean leads primarily in 18-25 year olds, the group least likely to vote, but haven't found poll data based on age. If anyone knows where to find it I would be interested. Further, a poll by the Rasmussen Reports, http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Democrats_Ballot_Preference_January%202004.htm shows that nationally Kerry, is also ahead by 12% but over Edwards and not Dean, according to that poll Dean is now 15% behind Kerry.
Reply #19 Top
Ok, a few points. First: There is a Republican in this country who could beat Hillary Clinton. Unfortunately, J.C. Watts retired from Politics a couple of years ago. I'd love to see him make a run for the presidency.

Second. Two weeks before we entered Iraq, Wesley Clark gave a more convincing justification for War than the President did,. Thus, if the President lied, by implication, Clark lied too, but his lie is compounded by the fact that he has now said he is against the war. Double lying, at some point or another.

Third: Quite nearly all of the Democrats in the race today, with the exception of Joe Liebermann, (sp?) are McGovern democrats. To a one, all of the major democrats have whined about the Presidents spending policies, meanwhile proposing plans that would raise spending by, at the very least, 800 Billion dollars. To a man. Kucinich's plan? 5 trillion dollars over the next ten years.

Fourh: Democrats, let's face it. No one is going to win a major political race by promising to raise taxes. To anyone.

Fifth: Hillary will win in '08, and probably in '12. That could quite possibly be the final presidential election that democrats win for a long time (I'll explain the reasoning later).

Reply #20 Top
jeblackstar. I think that Kerry will win NH. I don't think it matters. I think that the candidate with the most staying power (at this point) is Dean, he has the most money and the best organization. Kerry is the flavor of the week. The race doesn't really start until after Feb 3rd when things start to tighten up. After the 3rd we should be down to 3-4 candidates, then these polls may have some meaning. Dean and Kerry (an on rare occasion Clark) have been see-sawing in the national polls since whenever people started taking them in 2003. At this point the national polls are just proxies for NH. We know who won the primary in 72, here are the results from NH in 72

Edmund Muskie 46.4%
George McGovern 37.1%
Sam Yorty 6.1%
Wilbur Mills 4%
Vance Hartke 2.7%
Edward M. Kennedy 1.1%
Hubert H. Humphrey .4%
Henry M. Jackson .2%
George C. Wallace 1.8%
Others 1.8%

superthrawn.
#2 Clark = nuts. He should have waited until the convention to run as VP
#4 Correct. However, if the dems are smart, they can rephrase the soak the rich tax increase as a middle class tax cut. Nationally, I don't think there is enough anger for a straight soak the rich approach, but coupled with a middle class tax cut, a tax "adjustment", I think it could win.
#5 Doubtful. Three main problems. 1) Too much hype. 2) Too close to Clinton's term. The country as a whole was somewhat relieved to be rid of Clinton, too soon for another. The sympathy effect will also be well worn off by then. 3) The aftermath of the Bush administration will require a much more sympathatic and unknown democrat, like Carter in the aftermath of the Nixon administration.
Reply #21 Top
While I accept the point, I hope and pray the democrats realize that Dean is of almost no appeal to the moderates which actually control the election. Any Democrat is guaranteed the party faithful, which Dean is remarkably could at rallying, but only a perceived moderate like Kerry, Clark, Edwards, or even Lieberman could gain the influential swing moderate vote that's necessary to see a democrat in the White House
Reply #22 Top
I think the idea that a moderate can beat Bush is itself a bit misleading (wasn't it Carl Rove who first posited this idea?). A Kerry or Clark (or even Lieberman) type moderate has very little chance against Bush. There is no real deciding factor. "I would have run the Iraq war a bit differently" is not an issue that will win an election. Domestically, if the economy is well recovered, there is no other real domestic issue. In the presidential race there are maybe three principal issues (and I think this is being kind to the attention span of the electorate): Personality, Economy, Wildcard. The wildcard this time is Iraq, and neither Kerry or Clark is in a real position to challange Bush on this (it's all just shades of gray). Therefore if Personality = Draw, Iraq = Draw and Economy = Bush then the chance of unseating an incumbent president in a time of "trouble" (which is and will be properly manufactured by Bush) is very slim.

There is one ray of hope and that would be a straight personality contest. The only one who could (possibly) pull this off is Edwards, but I don't think he will be able to cut through both Dean and Kerry in such a compressed primary (given Dean's organization and Kerry's momentum).

It would also be theorectically possible for the Dems to use Dean as a straw man and use his energy and anger to motivate the base for some congressional/senate races (but sacrificing him for the general election). I'm not sure of the disposition of the statewide races is at this point, but I've heard that there are alot of incumbent Dems retiring (just by chance). If the Republicans pick up senate seats and Bush wins again (which I think is very likely) we are in for a real shitstorm.