Elrosh

Vasari Rebel Star Base cheaper and better than titan.

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Vasari Rebel Star Base cheaper and better than titan.

from Sins Forums

Ok, I never played vasari rebels in beta 3 because of the OP star base phase jump. So during one of my first games during the release build, I finally got my hands on it. Its absurdly easier to get than a titan. Back in beta 1, the tec titans were powerful, came early, and were extremely hard to kill. The vasari rebel star base mimics those exact some qualities at the moment.

First costs. You can get 8 military labs with two asteroids or dwarf planets and your home world. When you factor in logistic upgrade costs, lab costs, and research costs vs getting the vasari rebel titan, the phase jumping star base comes faster and is more powerful.

Second combat ability. The vasari titan attacks more targets, has more health and can get a large number of strike craft or abilities to be kept alive longer. All this while being CHEAPER than a level 1 vasari rebel titan (once all various costs are added up). Throw in the fact the vasari player might actually have a fleet to help support the star base and its no wonder why this needs a severe nerf. How, I will leave up to the devs, but just remember TEC loyalists twin fortress has two long research times pre-reqs before you can even get it.

77,081 views 57 replies
Reply #51 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Cpt_Siddy, reply 49
Problem is, that the titty will not sit still and die, it will just go away.

Yes it will run away but if you have enough force you can follow. Phase jump will drain its am even further and if you have sb where he is retreating from destabilization will help bring it down ..... 

I did mention that Vasari rebel titan is special case..... so is coronata above LVL6

Reply #52 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Greg30007, reply 51

I did mention that Vasari rebel titan is special case..... so is coronata above LVL6

 

Now you did, but yeah, no one even bothers to mention other titans as OP anymore. All the talk is about the VR titan and how it synergies with orky.

 

 

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Reply #53 from Sins Forums Top

First of all sbs that jump must have an impact to supply ratio.I think this is obvious as sbs becomes ever better than a titan.Good idea is to change phase drives with 2 level upgrades.One level jump in friendly planets second level jump in enemy planets and each upgrade hurts the the supply ratio.So you can either have many sbs and smaller fleet or fewer sbs largest fleet.And we must make posts about vasari loyalists.Its worst than vasari rebels.in 25 min more or less  i can have 5 caps a titan and 20 carriers

Reply #54 from Sins Forums Top

Add a passive ability to the TEC and Advent Starbases (like assault specialization) that lets them do Additional damage per shot to other starbases so they always win in a flat fight.

then the counter to the Orky... is... Other Starbases!

At least this way you force them to take out your starbase without the Orky or at least Maul it badly if its part of the assault.

 

it may be "cheaper and better than titans" but it will be unable to assault starbases

the VR Titan nano leach is going to see some changes I am sure.

Reply #55 from Sins Forums Top

There is another thread about how OP'd the Orky SB is. Many have put forth using fleet supply to cut back on its offensive power. One suggestion was once the Orky has been upgraded and is able to jump into neutral and enemy wells the orky uses 1 captain and 50 fleet supply same as a capital ship once the phase jump add-on is complete. Now this won;t apply to orkys that only have the upgrade to jump between friendly grav wells. Since it can clearly be used as a second titan and since no supply is used even though it will cost substantial resources to contruct multiple offensive orkys. The fleet supply option would prevent the vasari from just steam rolling all other players. Perfect example a Vasari player engages his 1 Titan + 1 Orky + a considerable fleet, now the opposing player will most likely send in a very large fleet to counter the enemy. Now the majority of his forces are occupied what prevents the Vasari player from phasing in Several other offensive orkys into other underprotected systems and reeking havoc on the player. The starbase itself doesnt need a nerf as the vasari need to be able to compete, just the amount of offensive orkies that can be mustered needs a nerf IMO.

Reply #56 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 11
That's the issue here.  To beat a fleet, you need a fleet or high-level titan (or sometimes a maxed SB will suffice).  The VR have bar-none the most powerful late-game fleet in the game.  While others have to concern themselves with petty things like frigates, the Kultorask can just eat them and keep them disabled half the time.  If the VR get's bored, it can just nuke every subtitan with Dissever (because you can bet this thing'll hit level 6 unless it's opponent ragequit before then).

Basically, your defenses against a powerful fleet are going to ordinarily consist of 4 things: frigate fleet, capitals, starbase, and titan.  The problem is that the Kultorask can make itself invulnerable and completely make a chunk of your fleet worthless.  Without your frigates, the VR's frigates are going to give the VR player far more DPS.  With this advantage for the VR, they can proceed to steamroll you if they have an Orkulus Rex with them.  Unlike other starbases which probably only get to fire at 4-5 enemies at once, Debris Vortex combined with the fact that the Orky can hit more targets at will for more DPS than any other unit in the game: more than 300 DPS on each of 16 targets.  As a result, an Orkulus Rex can demolish your remaining capitals, in particular because a lot of it's DPS is in the form of PM's which just happens to be the specialty weapon of the VR.  

Now that your capitals and frigates are dead, all you have left really are your titan and starbase.  While the Orky probably lost it's shields destroying your capitals, it has Debris Vortex, remember?  By now, all your frigates are dead and all that is just food for the Orkulus Rex, meaning that it too is basically immortal and you are now facing two invincible titans and a full fleet without yours.  The next step for the VR is to press towards your starbase and any repair platforms.  Disintegrators will make quick work of them both.

This leaves only your titan if you're lucky and a few stragglers.  Honestly, the focus fire from the fleet/Orky/bombers will probably kill the titan within seconds and Ruiner mines will prevent the fleeing ships from leaving.  In other words, you just lost your entire military force.

Orkies threatened to be OP on the attack in Entrenchment and Trinity because getting one built in your gravity well meant putting out thousands of points of damage while the rest of your fleet gets wailed on by the attacking fleet or lose the gravity well.  Now you have to put out tends of thousands of points of damage against something that is sending out 300+ DPS to each target, about a third of which is PM's.

Maxed Orkies have always been the most powerful starbase.  They were the first titan.  Once maxed and escorted by a fleet, they would refuse to die.  The reason that facing Orkulus Rex+Kultorask+fleet is OP is because there's nothing that can really do anything to stop it.

Send frigates?  Nano Leech
Send capitals? Nano Leech+Orky
Hide by starbase? Orky goes to town
Send titan? Orky+bombers

 

The Orky fundamentally isn't more powerful than the Kultorask, but when used together and escorted, pretty much everything is doomed.

then again to beat vasari rebels u going to need traders 

EPIC vs EPIC

a maxed orky = cannon fodder to 50+ orgrov + Cielo's designated target to Orky and Kultorask

Kultorask vs Ragnarov's overcharge+Snipe?or Ankylon's 1st ability (forgot the name) or quad Dunov's EMP Blast >>> useless Kultorask with the rest of its support and caps with their AM depleted and ofc maybe 25% shields left at the beginning of the fight?

vasari's fleet = cannon fodder to dual or more Marza's Missile Massacre and lastly not to mention

Argonev's PUSH THE <BEEP> RED BUTTON = vasari fleet gone and their caps severely damaged 

traders fleet wiped out?Argonev's Remote Construction + Sova's Rapid Manufacturing (by the time u use this Kultorask is severely damaged and low AM and Orky long gone) 

seriously which side is more OP then eh?

 

Reply #57 from Sins Forums Top

Ok yes the above seems quite convincing but once again that with a single orky and possibly titan and fleet against another enemy fleet now what will happen if the Vasari Rebels phase in orkys into several of another players grav wells, maybe its a TEC player with twin bases maybe not but it seems to be a big advantage while your enemies fleet is occupied with your orky+titan+ supporting fleet. To deal with the threat an enemy would have to divide his fleet depending on how many of his wells u sent an orky into. Now he can either keep his man force occupied againt ur main force and possibly lose the other wells or divide his forces in which case he would be overpowered. In the case of the ogrovs yes 50+ might be able to do something but thats 14 supply for each and all they will do is take on the orky wat is the rest of the fleet composed of? All the enemy has to do is have supporting carriers and frigates and the ogrovs are useless.