The arrogance of Religion

ROFL @ "God Bless Atheism" 

Other great video, thanks

Hello myfist0, nice to hear from you again. Hope all is well for you and yours up there in "The Northern Wilds" hahaha. Moderate Christians (whatever) who believe in an earthly interfering and controlling monotheistic god have no options but to rely on their holy book of choice because there are no other sources. So I will spend some time discussing the bible.

I give up trying to discuss religion with theists because there just isn’t a fair or reasonable starting point. I am willing to start with a clean plate but theists aren’t, ever. Even a discussion like “Can you prove god exists without the bible” falls on deaf ears and as in all theistic arguments, god in just assumed to exist and that is where all their arguments begin. As I see it, the bible is the word of god or it isn’t. If it isn’t god’s word then why do so many treat it as such? And if it is, then why is the bible so easily discredited story after story and parable after parable, amazing that? Don’t you just love it when told well some parts are and some points aren’t … WTF? And to add insult to injury, there is no list or guideline to distinguish one from the other go figure. What is godly about mass confusion and blatant inaccuracies and fabrications? You cannot take say a math book and dissect it into the believable and the imaginary … but that is only a work of man??? Humm, the cubed root of 8 is 2; only an idiot would believe such poppycock as that, what rubbish???

The Bible: the Word of God or not?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blytz7l1dRs

Whenever a Christian gets overwhelmed with evidence that disproves various biblical claims, it inevitability boils down to something like “Hump, you cannot prove that god doesn’t exist so there”. Since children will be children … no one can prove that anything doesn’t exist, anything at all. No one can prove there are no boogiemen, vampires, werewolves, zombies (I met a few?), Easter Bunnies, the Tooth Fairy or even Santa himself. Not being able to disprove ‘something’ exists in no way implies that the ‘something’ does exist. Christians cannot prove that any other god(s) don’t exist for the same ridiculous reason stated above. Since nothing can be proven not to exist this ploy doesn’t prove anything and no useful information can be realized … so maybe we can drop this silly excuse from the apologist lists.

How to prove there is no God   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXR8Rk7jqWM&list=PLC45E679C243132E5&index=1&feature=plpp_video

 

Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis attempt to prove that God does exist without using the Bible as evidence, but conscience, right and wrong, etc.  I recommend it if you want a starting point to finding God outside of the Bible.  But that's really the long way around.  I mean, what you're asking for to have a discussion without the Bible is pretty ludicrous.  It's like asking us to prove that Shakespeare lived, and tell you about him, but we can't use the plays he wrote.  Christianity is a self-proving religion - if it was not true, it could not exist.  Why did people suddenly become obsessed with this God that couldn't even keep his people out of captivity?  Why is it so different than other religions?  How did anybody come up with the concepts?  You wouldn't take the Old Testament, and then write the New Testament the way it is, nobody understood what was going on until Jesus rose again.  Oh well, that's all theology anyway.

Basically, check out C.S. Lewis' work Mere Christianity, if you feel you should.  If you just want to argue or debate, then don't bother.

 

It usually doesn't do any good to tell people I am an atheist, a reformed ex-Catholic who has found enlightenment in factual knowledge for a real change. I am open to most discussions but arguing with people is no longer an option for me which is why I don’t appreciate staunch believers who seemingly swallow, hook, line and sinker, whatever they are told without question or proof. I spent many years trying to discover god but couldn’t and because of that I soon realized that god (whatever that is) had never been a part on my life which told me that I didn’t need mysticism of any kind to live a good life. I don’t look for any gods anymore because they all are impossibly obscure in the real world. To be able to believe in this Christian god, one has to believe in the bible and I cannot even get through the first chapter without alarm bells sounding at every turn. And without Genesis there was no ‘Original Sin’, no biblical god of the universe and consequently no Jesus myth necessary to usurp an empty biblical throne. And of course there are the sciences, but to me the bible itself is religions worst enemy due to its having been decreed and enforced as the literal words of god for many, many centuries. I don’t have it in me to just pick and choose which parts of the bible are ‘good’ like most Christians do. The only way god can become a part of my life is if he dines to give me one of those personal mental visits Christians profess they experience all the time. What problem do you have with debating???

A perfect example of religions 'circular logic'. People are such gullible creatures and no matter how ridiculous or outlandish something is, if it is put into writing there will be those who will believe it … just because it is written.

Ricky Gervais| Rumours on the Bible   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9YzOkxB-Gc&feature=related

I unfortunately cannot view any of the videos you are posting.

I have never had a mental visit from God, as you say, but it is easy for me to see where he's working in my life and on me from looking back on where I was, who I was, before God changed me.  See, I didn't want to change, but I've been changing anyway.

I don't see how the logic is circular (without watching the video).  So, when was the Bible written?  Can you really prove anything at all?  What evidence do you have for your facts?  Did you look at it yourself?  Do you understand the science behind it?  Or are you taking someone's word for it?  Where from?  From a book?  From a newspaper?  From an internet article?  Were you personally involved in any of the experiments that determined these so-called factual things you know?  You take a lot on faith just to live - but I can't take the Bible on faith, what, because it's older?  But you don't say who wrote it, when it was written, etc.  Someone, a long time ago, determined when it was written and who wrote it.  They determined which books are incorporated into the Bible.  This happened.  So why were the gospels written?  What purpose do they serve anyone except to receive salvation?  Yes, Jesus taught good behavior, but many other teachers have taught that.  But Jesus says despite your bad behavior, you can be saved.  Nobody else says that.  Okay?  You know what that means, right?  The main argument that it was written in order to control people into being good is completely ludicrous given a cursory reading of the Bible, as it says 'Act how you want, you can still be saved!'  Yes, it later says that that isn't the best thing to do, or the right thing to do, but here it is, giving everyone an out for ANYTHING.  So why was the Bible written, if not for the express purpose of God wanting to draw mankind to himself?  Please, enlighten me.

Of course you can't, what was I thinking of??? What good would it do to understand both sides of an issue before hand after all … but religious folk just keep on trucking wholeheartedly believing so much in their arguments that well it just isn’t even worth looking at opposing views let alone contemplating them, go figure. You had some fair questions I am just confused why you asked me to answer them for you. If you do not know what an atheist is or even the rudimentary arguments, well that is your problem. You tell me who wrote the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John then because nobody else in the world can? All I know is that it wasn’t any kind of a knowledgeable god or there wouldn’t be so many inaccuracies and contradictions. I was a nuclear engineer before I retired so I do have enough math and physics to muddle my way through most of the basic sciences but there are points others have reached that are difficult (some impossible) for me to grasp (yet) but I am just talking about evolution here (not on your permission list either huh) as opposed to biblical accounts of the creation of everything.

A valid question but only if god wrote it and he didn’t, unknown people did. Why was anything written about any of a thousand different gods if not for the same reason, to suck people in and to relieve them of their money or other worldly possessions. I can recommend some good classes but your enlightenment is your problem and you will never even address it by closing your eyes and burying your head in two thousand year old sand.

 

No, I literally do not have access to the videos.  I can see they are there but they are blocked by filtering software, or I would watch them to know where you were coming from.

The problem is you're taking the word of someone saying they know what happened billions of years ago, when they weren't there.  I have the word of someone who was there about 10,000 years ago passed down and then written down.  Okay, so maybe you don't believe they were there, but that's not the point.  They may or may not have been there - the scientist was NOT there.  I don't understand how the scientist is more credible than the book.  The scientist cannot even begin to make the assumptions needed to make an accurate determination on anything.  Creation scientists continue to make assumptions based on the Bible and arrive at different answers that fit a Biblical perspective and a Biblical timeline.  Creation scientists have gathered newly formed rock and sent it to be dated only to get answers of millions of years ago.  If you can't even date a rock that was formed decades ago, why do we believe they can date things from billions of years ago?  Does that make sense?

What in the world does the bible have to do with billions of years ago at which time earth and the universe was just a thought in your gods mind, supposedly? Are you sure you want to go back that far? I am not taking anyone’s word for anything, not any more. If there was just some person or another I wouldn’t take their word for much either because they cannot have enough proof to make their case. But I have hundreds of thousands of seasoned and dedicated scientists around the world from just about every major country that have taken the time to submit their work for peer reviews and criticisms and then I take notice. All you guys have to do is publish your biblical wonderments along with the testing methods used and the results of those tests and then submit them for scientific review … but you guys haven’t. As far as I know not one single non-frivolous paper has been accepted in two thousand years because there are no facts at all to back up the caveman theory of the universe. Creation ‘science’ which is anything but science has been crushed legally now too and thrown out on its ear as has this ID nonsense. Your god may be all knowing, but the people he had to deal with then were complete idiots compared to most modern grade-schoolers. Do you really think that scientists, most having several modern degrees from prestigious colleges and universities here in the 21st century are knowledgably unfit … but the illiterate unschooled barbarians who lived in the first century just had their game on … really??? Do you know anything about dating rocks and such because there are quite a number of different tests they perform to verify their findings … or have you just read the reproachful religious documentation, humm …

Sorry I didn’t catch this at first or I wouldn’t have made any comment at all because this answers any and all questions I could possibly think to ask. I don’t think we can have much to discuss from this point on because I just don’t have enough credulity in me, sorry. If you are happy then I am happy too.

 

Well, Zinnia doesn’t need my help presenting her views as we agree on this topic of religious arrogance. Religious folk just don’t seem to comprehend (or care) how obnoxious they are … it is always the other guys who just refusees to put their lives on hold long enough to be brainwashed enough to forgo their humanity, intelligence and their will as the typical Christian has. Well, this is just a no brainer for me.

 

Atheists are so arrogant!   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_5fZEUePvk

When you have a group of historical scientists that all make the same assumptions reviewing each other's work, you have a problem with false positive reviews, the same as if you have opposite assumption scientists reviewing each other's work, you'll get false negative reviews.

All I said was that assumptions matter in historical science.  Do you know what assumptions were made?  How did they arrive at those assumptions?  What backing did those have?  How do we know those assumptions are accurate?  Coming from a Biblical standpoint, I know somewhere in the chain to the old earth assumptions is a link that doesn't fit.  Somewhere, there is a bad assumption that was not proven or that is based on other bad assumptions.  Coming from a scientific perspective and a young earth perspective, a Creation Scientist is trying to find that faulty assumption, while the atheist scientist just keeps using those faulty assumptions because he doesn't know any better.

Ok then if this is how you want to play this old game ... what scientific assumptions have been made (???) and what in the world is this global conspiracy nonsense? I guess I need guidance on some of these 'old earth assumptions’ too??? I gave the opportunity earlier to discuss biblical creation on the Discovering Religion post (where this should be too) but instead of trying to support your case, you chose to tell me how screwed up evolution is when it is quite obvious from your language that you are clueless on the subject. Trashing evolution is tantamount to saying we know nothing whatsoever about nature, the universe, the planet or anything that populates it. And your sole reason for thinking this way is because of some crusty manuscripts written and translated by unknowns in the Bronze Age. If you have ANY other reason for this superior attitude of yours, please inform me … but on the other post please. Do us both a favor and at least try to learn the proper scientific terminology. See how many assumptions you can find here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

How many times have we been told that atheists just don’t respect religion and my reply is that I give your religion the same amount of respect it gives me and my views. I could ask where is this Christian respect concerning Islam or any other religion but to what purpose … we all know the answer. I could care less what religious folk believe in … but for some strange reason we are what, ‘not allowed’ to have opinions of our own, geese. But it gets worse … we are supposed to somehow make ourselves believe in their fantasies too.

Pat Condell - Insulting religion   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RChLF558rNA&feature=related

Really, the funny thing here is you don't have opinions of your own.  You have opinions from videos from YouTube. 

Humm, did I fail to leave out my comments somewhere, or not. If you would just disable the ‘ + god only  lock’ function on your computer, you might actually be able to look at the clips before you attribute all my deepest views to YouTube. I review many different clips but I only select those that agree with me and my opinions, for the most part. But I see dishonesty is not shamed by your doubletalk for sure. Let me know when you look at the clips because then I will know that you know everything about me, hahaha. Sam Harris thinks a lot like I do too, go figure.

 

Dr. Sam Harris vs. "Dr." Craig   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HthQ6a7FZeA&list=PLA163BCCED9FDCF2B&index=21&feature=plpp_video

The god of the desert; the god of death and the three Abrahamic desert dogmas which spawned are just variations of the same cult of death. They all worship the same loving and kindly god … differently … to the exclusion of everything else even reason. They all know how crazy the others are … they just cannot seem to look in a mirror with any rational objectivity probably because they don’t have any.  Mankind seems to have been ‘produced’ just to be punished by this benevolent god as since the very beginning we are made to believe that just being human is a sin … a sporting chance huh. All the religious sinners at the top of the priority list and well we all know where non-believing sinners are placed, hahaha. The difference being we don’t care because dead is dead until proven otherwise anyway.

God the psycho   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5JtxrR6msg&feature=b-vrec

Arrogance is much better defined as pretending to know things that you do not. Now as long as you restrict yourself to the bible, I am willing to call you a fit representative of Christianity even though you do not seem to know that much about it. You do not have to believe your own ears and eyes nor do you have to open your mind to the obvious. You are not at all required to believe or understand Science as you please. Same for evolutionary theory or any of the other theories you so easily scoff at and dismiss. What only a fool does is forget how ignorant they are on a subject and pretends to understand it so thoroughly as to sum it all up with “it doesn’t work” or “it is all based on lies”. And you cannot see the harm this naïve view point could present to education itself. Shit just give everyone a bible and we would never have to crack a book again because we two would know everything, oh yea the pocketbook will be have to be constantly opened still, but that is a given anyway so what the hell.

Really??? I post videos because creationists don't read anything besides what other creationist write, to the exclusion of everything else available, something you have proven time and time again. I am sorry you refuse to even look at the actual science, listen to the scientists themselves or make any effort to question your faith or to try objectively to understand the world outside a literal bible. Instead of continuously making an evolutionary fool or yourself and a liar out of god, I suggest a different course. You CAN teach old dogs new tricks after all, because if Pat Robertson can see the wisdom and knowledge our sciences have provided and can admit publically the pretense of a literal creation … anyone can. You just have to step off your high perch and look for yourself in a few places you never seem to visit. God didn’t decree the world to be 6 ky old, one of the flunky Catholic bishops did back in the ~16^th century … with gods flawless authority and presumed ignorance of the facts. Catholics have distorted reality out of complete ignorance, their own and that of ALL the godly inspired authors and the billions of people they have deceived with their lies. This attitude could have been accepted  one or two hundred years ago out of ignorance, but not today by anyone claiming to be rational. If you continue to fight science, you will probably lose your children and grandchildren, if they are to grow up to be productive in society.

 

Even Pat Robertson Denies the Earth is 6,000 Years Old   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sKIymtsOAc

I'll let you know when I start fighting science.

Come on now ... a 6kyo universe??? Doesn't strike me as being one with science and besides a 6kyo universe has nothing to do with your bible either. Try reading it and tell me where it says the universe is so young??? But you like to pretend you know things just because you have faith. Has your god faithfully and personally kept you updated by revelation or something? Did your reasoning faculties become diminished in some way when you were 'baptized' or otherwise ritualized into believing in magic, I think not, so what happened when god became a part of you or whatever you call it? Was there a revelation then or something that prompted your scientific prowess? All I have to know about your religious beliefs; is that you ‘profess’ to believe the universe is <6kyo and that you believe the bible to be the inerrant word of god. That tells me that you are beyond reason, have nothing useful to offer, have no proof or facts for anything, have no scientific aptitude … but you do have faith. I don’t seem to have any problems speaking for myself, as myself with the arguments I have researched yep by myself. You seem to have difficulty when anyone asks you to prove anything … but you do have blind faith bless you??? The truth has prevailed, evolution is undeniably a fact ... you folks just haven’t caught on yet. Want to discuss anything yet???

PS - I know you have little to say and cannot support your own arguments, but I enjoy your little one liners because I do like to speak my mind, the emphasis is on 'my mind', and I have plenty to say for sure.

And how would you know this because I think you have to at least look at them to comment so (???), but you have faith I guess. You said before that science wasn't your forte and that you didn't really know that much about it, but you have a few creation 'scientists' (scientific rejects) that know it and that you agree with them (0.1% of  the earth scientists around the world). [I think it is 0.15% in America] Well from that point on you take responsibility for what they say too ... it goes with 'blind faith' sorry. If you knew enough about the scientific process we wouldn't be having this silly conversation, but you don't to such a blatantly obvious degree that you cannot even see the faulty arguments they are making (using our fucked up sciences (?)) ... how could you, you just don’t understand? So like the bible, you own it if you use it publically. Sadly all you can do is quote them and hope for the best ... which will not be forthcoming because you are a scientific skeptic without a lick of proof to back this up either (must be a Christian thing) and are destined to live in ignorant bliss until you do something about it … like actually reading a book concerning the things you trash. Did your AWOL god make a public library off limits or were you likewise TOLD not to go there (Lula worked in one mind you) … so why??? Thousands of bookstores everywhere and of course there’s the internet. I know you use the internet because you reference “Answers in Genesis” so I am tired of your excuses for pretending to have nothing available to you … or “you would like to watch my vids [that you comment on]”  but you cannot figure out how to. A crock of bollocks and we both know it. Why don’t you honestly tell us WHY you refuse to look up anything controversial to your dogma? The savages that wrote your fairytale were just ignorant of the facts and did the best they could, but you are willfully ignorant and there is no excuse for that. You did graduate HS didn’t you?

Oops how soon we forget. As a YEC, you are naïve beyond belief and like any other child (mentally) you spend your time quashing all evidence and proofs offered because your learning process only takes input from other affirmed mental children because you cannot figure anything out for yourself or you are again not allowed to do so, no difference IMO. No comment necessary.

Rather, I examined the evidence and found that there is no conclusive evidence for dating the earth, or the universe.

Can a rock even be this dense, I  think not. As we sat on the moon, I am sure they thought ... surely we can age a rock, a tree, a bone or something, better check when we get back to earth. I believe this is the most infantile case of ignorance I have ever encountered. Maybe you could state a source or two for this newest bit of unshakable faith. I do not think very many other creationists will be willing to go this far back to the Stone Age, my-oh-my. Ok since you seem intent on refuting yourself please continue. I will even undelete the previous post just so you have more to educate me on. This should be good. A couple more sentences would help though.

And besides since you believe the earth to be 6kyo, you don't even have to even contemplate reality. I don't believe that you believe we are totally flabbergasted trying to age everything at <6kyo ... let me repeat this for you; EVERYTHING must be no older than that, geez. What in the hell is wrong with your creation 'scientists' ... can't they age anything (EVERYTHING) either??? You need to melt away from this because I am going to stop being nice if you persist. I am WAY past discussing opinions with you, present something factual with sources or just go away crying about a lack of consideration and remain ignorant of the facts

Sources for your nonsense please??? What evidence did you examine in the last couple of hours, surely you can still remember them at least?

Question Evolution: Question 5   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wfgdqSUNCQ

Because you won't look at it, it just demonstrates how imbecilic creationists pretending to be scientists are ... FUBAR too.

PS - Let me guess, you went all the way (click, click) to 'Answers in Genesis' ... good enough for you I guess?