Making the world more alive

from Elemental Forums

The more I play the game, the more I realize what hampers my enjoyment with the game the most: it is the static nature of the world itself - and I don't mean the landscape, though volcanoes, tidal waves, or something like Hell terrain spread from FFH2 would be nice.

No, I speak about the interactions between the mobs and the AI players in the wilderness. Kingdom and Empire aligned heroes should attack each other, and wild animals (depending on an "aggression" characteristic, perhaps), should attack almost everyone. There could be different behaviors - some monsters could be territorial, attacking only those enter their turf, some could be active predators, some could be fast breeders, swarming the area.

There could be whole lot of emergent events and stories from the clashes of the mobs - for example, after wild wolves would overrun a distant Pariden village, you could get an event about Pariden refugees asking for asylum in your cities - with pros and cons with all the decisions. After a spawning a mighty dragon, you could have and event about your astrologer having bad dreams about burning cities. When two distant kingdoms go to war, you could perhaps be presented with an option to supply either side with weapons, or make a public declaration condemning or praising one of the participants.

Endless possibilities, but notably, tons of emergent stories and distinct worlds - some overrun by beasts, some peaceful and comfortable places to live.

The map as it is is currently just a static board full of goodie huts waiting for you to pop open. Beasts reside beside heroes and monsters, and nobody cares.

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Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

The Faction interaction is getting quite a bit better, and in large part is in pretty good shape. however, it would be nice if the Faction AI chose to interact with the wilderness in a more meaningful way.

 

In terms of wilderness creatures, I would very much like to see a greater differentiation in how wilderness creatures are populated and in how they behave. The various types of regions should have characteristic creatures which occur with greater frequency

 

Bandits should spawn near valuable resources outside of ZoC, and should do so late into the game to represent those few stragglers who are choosing not to join any faction gathering together to eke out a living of the backs of setllers. They should pointedly prey on unprotected resources and weak units (pioneers, militia). Over time, it is reasonable that their tech increase to pace with the lowest faction's weapons and armor as it can be assumed to have become relatively ubiquitous.

Bears and wolves should be territorial, but try to avoid conflict with large groups.

Trolls should live near rocky features and build up small raiding parties over a few tens of turns, then "come down from the hills" in small groups to raid nearby soft settlements, outposts, and poorly protected groups of people.

Elementals are probably more Bound defenders, magically chained to locations to protect goodies from before the fall. They should be tough and have good rewards.

Death Demons should be enticed by conflict and be drawn towards area where there has been lots of war to collect the souls of the dead and dying. I would also like to see them be able to pick up their lairs and move if their current home has little conflict.

Dragons should live in remote places and only come out of the mountains to prey on larger cities to increase their horde.

Skaths should be ferociously territorial, but stay relatively close to their homes as there is likely no other primary predators in the area feeding on the near by fauna.

 

 

Admittedly, the above is a bit of work with the AI, but the amount of character and color that these types of interactions and behaviors would give to the world in general would go a long way to making the world a more vibrant and interesting place.

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Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

totally agreed, I've been trying to get the neutrals/independents alot more love for some time, at first I was campaigning for all independents to have unique functions but this would require alot of work per each one and would result in fewer overall creatures (kinda like they're reducing the # of major factions so that the remaining will be more differentiated) & such but after a couple good conversations it turned out that a multitude of tiny wildands scattered throughout tha map might be the way to go with this.  Each of these 'tiny' wildlands would be it's own 'faction', say a tribe of trolls or a bandit outpost or Necromancer's keep, they could all be setup in the workshop with an easy I want this kind of creature here (choose from creature data base,this should be really huge with the 'summons' mod thats coming), then set it's population, growth rate, and whether or not it will have the ability to do basic negotiations (must have sufficient intelligence), might also be nice to set it's influence and/or patrol zone distance and the overall 'natural' aggressiveness

some of my thoughts, first being before the multi-wildland idea the second after:

https://forums.elementalgame.com/417474

https://forums.elementalgame.com/423731

Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

I think both are great ideas and would add a lot of color to the game.  I'd also like to see appearance of more lairs / monsters / events as the game goes on (Kamamura's "emergent stories" or Grizzly's lairs gaining population and settling new ones). 

-So that previously clear area near the mountains by your capitol?  A large ogre tribe was just discovered there and is threatening your capitol city. 

-A huge battle was just fought?  A few turns later a Death Demon lair appears there (as Malsqueek suggested).

-The farm you just built?  Angered an earth elemental that is now hell bent on removing you from the sacred ground. 

-Watermill?  Uncovered a lair of Skath's in the river

 

I'd love to see more epic "holy crap did that just happen?" events as well, possibly triggered by the player or AI. One such is the Shadow World spell (see my post here).  Things that only pop up every 5 or 10 games but completely change the game.  They could add a ton of life to the mid to late game that's sorely missing right now.

-The Shadow World spell, when cast, creates rampaging armies of demons that are bent on destroying every city on elemental (including the caster's). Do alliances arise to fight them?  Or do you wait until they weaken your neighbor and then move in and take over?

-A Titan arises with his armies and starts plowing through factions. 

-An earthquake buries several cities and releases scores of monsters

-The last-place faction, desperate for power, tries a magical experiment that goes wrong, converting every one of their population into horrible monsters / raving lunatics / butchermen that flood their neighbors' territory.  

 

The key to these large scale events that's missing right now is some AI for the monster groups.  There are several quests that release a bunch of monsters, but generally they just sit there.  Maybe they attack an army that wanders by.  I think they should make a beeline towards the nearest city and keep going after they sack it.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm not sure but I think demons in the Elemental lore were followers of the Titans, if this is the case then why not have them attempting to complete some goal to enable them to 'reincarnate' their long lost deity causing "-A Titan arises with his armies and starts plowing through factions."  If the demons completed their task (maybe razing a lvl 5 city or the equivalent in population destroyed), a Shrine/temple/portal or whatnot would be produced in the city's place that pulls the Titan back into being?

 

Just think about the mid-late game battles one could have then, gets my blood boilin just thinkin about the dread he (tha titan) would bring, sure you might be able to pay tribute for a while but what then

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top


One of the things I really loved about Civ4-BTS and in GalCivII were all these really minor-seeming random events that offered three options on how to proceed (Kinda based on a scale of morality).

e.g.    A potientially new medicinal herb has been found that may cure some disease. Do you A: immediately experiment on the weak (+15% unrest, +1 growth), B: Invest money and time to properly research on lab-shrills (-80 Gildar, +0.5 growth), C: pile the herb in the town square and burn it all (-5% unrest)

etc.


Cumulatively, all these herbs, revolutionaries, rouge mages, and what-have-you add up and help to define the character of your burgening civilization.

I'd love to see more of this implemented into FE! =) Adventure is not always found, it more often than not finds you.

 

 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Ragmash, reply 5

A potientially new medicinal herb has been found that may cure some disease. Do you A: immediately experiment on the weak (+15% unrest, +1 growth), B: Invest money and time to properly research on lab-shrills (-80 Gildar, +0.5 growth), C: pile the herb in the town square and burn it all (-5% unrest)


Cumulatively, all these herbs, revolutionaries, rouge mages, and what-have-you add up and help to define the character of your burgening civilization.
 

 

mmm....medicinal herbs...

 

Raz Tafari had toiled for many years as a humble farmer in small commune on the eastern side of the Reggae plains. With no family, home, or drive for adventure, the humble farmer spent long days laboring in the field and restful nights under the sky gazing upwards. One night during the summer harvest he had a hazy vision of smoky wastes being brought to life at his touch. The next day he told the others about his dream yet no one believed him, calling it a pipe dream at best. Later that day while harvesting an especially powerful crop of wom-weed a shine amongst the green leaves caught his eye. After a short time digging he discovered a relic of the Titans, the bong of Bobmar'ley, Lord of Harmony (a lesser known Titan)! Bringing this sacred relic back to the village redeemed him in their eyes and it was not long until they passed out and swore fealty to him the next day. From that day Raz worked to discover himself and the great powers beheld in his vision.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Agree with OP.  Emergent stories would add color.  I suspect this is also what we're  really clamoring for when we ask for "more choices."

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

I still think something like a "tavern" similar to Homam series had would do a lot for immersion - a place or window where random gossips like "travellers from the east report increasing numbers of shrieks attacking the caravans",  "Smiths in the kingdoms thrive due to increased number of demand for blades from the <name here> Empire", "a red comet has appeared on the night sky, a bad omen of coming wars and suffering", "distant desert on the north is rumoured to hide great treasures"

Some of them could be accurate, some of them bogus, some of them in between. You could maybe even improve it by certain techs or building - better tavern in your capital could mean more travellers, or more important persons visiting, thus more frequent or accurate gossip. The main functions:

1) Information from the parts of the world player has not/cannot scout, thus staying in touch with what goes in the world

2) Hints about special places on the map

3) Intel about the aims and objectives of other kingdoms ("I heard that Pariden royal prince was ridiculed on a tournament and swown revenge")

4) Warnings about coming dangers player should get ready (cataclysmic event coming or a kingdom becoming too strong)

Similar to minor races in Galciv, it would be nice if certain mob group (bandits/demons) would become so strong it would start limited diplomatic activity - claiming territory, declaring wars, trading, etc.