Are neutral monsters aggressive to AI empire?

I have started a new game in v0.912. I have not yet see any neutral monsters move against AI empire yet, Undefended pioneers moving among strong groups of monsters to get to their destination to create new city. Undefended cities, outpost not destroyed by neutral monsters. It looks as if the neutral monsters are only aggressive toward player empire/kingdom.

In beta2, razing of cities will remove fertility of 8 surroundings tiles. In beta3, occupation unrest were added to captured city that isn't started out as your race. AI sovereigns always have been bad in city placement, they have often been seen building a city on a grain 2/ material 2 tiles when they are better tiles nearby. It is especially evident in the beginning of the game when AI sovereign choose to start on a 4/2 tiles, when there is a 5/3 tile next to their beginning location. All these make good location for city placement almost impossible.

I usually raze most of my enemies cities when they are captured even when it is on a 5/5 tiles, why? It think the AI have a tendencies to build special improvement for the sake of variety instead of what is good for that city.



18,614 views 16 replies
Reply #1 Top

I've noticed that issue too, in a similar way (I have a savegame showing just that, in case that would be useful):

AI Monster chased AI Player Pioneer - AI Player builds city - AI Monster stands next to city for many turns, doing nothing.

Reply #2 Top

They definitely are aggressive, I've seen monsters destroy a giant cluster of 3 outposts at once and even a city owned by AI players, but yes, they don't always attack. To be fair, AI monsters don't always go after YOUR stuff either. I guess that's because monsters don't always behave logically? They might just wander around and leave, although if they are dead set on attacking, they'll rush straight for your city. The reason you are probably thinking this is because the AI doesn't clear monsters very well currently, so it leaves a ton of them hanging around, only one or two of which might be aggressive (but you don't notice because of all the other ones just hanging around). Where as, if you clear everything out (like a player would do), the aggressive one is always clear as day.

As for the chasing pioneer thing, when the pioneer "builds" the city, the monster see it as being destroyed, and it needs to find something else to do... perhaps it doesn't think it should attack a city with militia defenders? *shrugs*

Reply #3 Top

I think it all revolves around the definition of a "wandering monster."  Presumably some are more directly aggressive, and others have different motivations in succession.  But this is all speculation without evidence.  I've lost cities to wandering monsters who go right for the carnage, and seen that other times the monster moves into my territory without doing much for a few turns.  And they were not the same monster types.

Reply #4 Top

Quoting Kalin, reply 2
They definitely are aggressive, I've seen monsters destroy a giant cluster of 3 outposts at once and even a city owned by AI players, but yes, they don't always attack. To be fair, AI monsters don't always go after YOUR stuff either. I guess that's because monsters don't always behave logically? They might just wander around and leave, although if they are dead set on attacking, they'll rush straight for your city. The reason you are probably thinking this is because the AI doesn't clear monsters very well currently, so it leaves a ton of them hanging around, only one or two of which might be aggressive (but you don't notice because of all the other ones just hanging around). Where as, if you clear everything out (like a player would do), the aggressive one is always clear as day.

As for the chasing pioneer thing, when the pioneer "builds" the city, the monster see it as being destroyed, and it needs to find something else to do... perhaps it doesn't think it should attack a city with militia defenders? *shrugs*

 

Neutral monster are aggressive to AI players, but nowhere as aggressive as they are to players. I have game which I have place an outpost next to a monster nest. Within 100 turns, it was destroyed. The same scenario by AI players, 300 turns  later, their are still standing next to the nest. I notice monsters go after AI player's resources rather than the outpost. Also I have starting to treat neutral monsters as a separate fraction that allied with all AI players, and bonus when they destroy AI players stuffs.

I was ranting earlier because I got a chance to cast Shadow World spell, which summons demons into the world. I feel that it is a neat spell, but with neutral monster doing almost nothing, I do not know the purpose of the spell. My idea was to bring destruction to nearby AI cities, but it looks like it is to use for champion xp farming now.

Reply #5 Top


Monsters should be differing threats. Trolls and ogres should destroy outposts, mine etc and when they conquer a town reduce it's population and smash some buildings. Wolves should only kill population. Spiders could attack mines and make them into nests, making more spiders until you retake them. Brigands and bandits should steal resources.

Reply #6 Top

The non-aggression of mobs to AI units and overt aggression to players units means they effectively act as guardians for the AI, so why would they want to clear them?

Example:  A death demon with a pack of assassins next to AI city ignoring AI units.  Player army arrives and captures AI city, death demon group immediately attacks captured city on same turn, destroys players army and razes city.  Next turn AI pioneer builds outpost in the same area next to death demon group which ignores it.  A few turns later next player army arrives,  gives death demon group a wide berth, and captures another AI city.  Death demon group uses road link to arrive at captured city next turn, destroys player army and razes city.  AI builds new outpost on the same spot.  Player gives up.

Reply #7 Top

Just about two-thirds of the way through one game on normal level, large world, playing as Pariden.  My top stack came across a Forest Drake on top of its lair, two squares away from a level 4 Tarth city, and well within its area of influence.  This would mean the lair has been there from the game's start, and in 346 turns never attacked the city.

 

That really does need a bit of tweaking.

Reply #8 Top


personal, I don't think monster should raze city, maybe hit population or even hold city (but monster don't use it but  hold ing as thier home ) then we can take city back and if won, then repair city for few turn, would be nice rather than raze city then you can't build that city spot again, monster ruined it. I did clear all monster that huge area, then this huge spider out of nowhere raze my city, I kind of piss and not fair, not know spider out of nowhere, while I did work and clean readly, real good job, but this spider come out of "nowhere" ,if spider do come, that spider much come very, very long way to raze my city, arrrr.

Reply #9 Top

I think that due to community feedback and the fact that a lot of lairs spawn mini monsters now they have decreased the aggressiveness of the large stacks of monsters that sit on lairs.

Reply #10 Top

Quoting DsRaider, reply 9
I think that due to community feedback and the fact that a lot of lairs spawn mini monsters now they have decreased the aggressiveness of the large stacks of monsters that sit on lairs.

 

And I'm sure this will re-balanced.  FE's a work-in-progress.  It's not really the kind of thing that needs to be pointed out to Stardock, but it is odd enough to draw comment from us.

Reply #11 Top


I think most monsters sit on lairs so player might not loot easy without fight, I think that's why they try to do that.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Patho, reply 6
The non-aggression of mobs to AI units and overt aggression to players units means they effectively act as guardians for the AI, so why would they want to clear them?

Example:  A death demon with a pack of assassins next to AI city ignoring AI units.  Player army arrives and captures AI city, death demon group immediately attacks captured city on same turn, destroys players army and razes city.  Next turn AI pioneer builds outpost in the same area next to death demon group which ignores it.  A few turns later next player army arrives,  gives death demon group a wide berth, and captures another AI city.  Death demon group uses road link to arrive at captured city next turn, destroys player army and razes city.  AI builds new outpost on the same spot.  Player gives up.

This has been my experience, so I play around it.  Of course that means I am basically playing a different game than the AI is playing.  I'd rather that both play the same game.

Reply #13 Top

Before I took an enemy city, I noticed an Obsidian golem in an adjacent square.

Once I took the city, it attacked me on the very next turn.

Was this by design?

Reply #14 Top

It is truly noticable that monsters are definitely aggressive to the human player and not so much if it all to the AI player.  

Reply #15 Top

One thing that I realized: usually the main monster group stay in the lair, and smaller groups are spawned that wanders and can attack the player (or the AI ?).

But when/if my zone of control come over the lair, then the guardian group leave the lair and become aggressive.

 

Maybe the problem/bug (if there is one) is that the AI zone of control does not trigger the guardian group rampage so they only have to deal with the smaller spawned groups ?

Reply #16 Top

This is a spectacular game, and games this good can not have issues this silly. I get that the neutral monsters are at the core of the idea of the game. That they should treat the human player different than the AI player is not acceptable in a game of this calibre. I have read some good idea, but more to the point, consider this.

 

On the easiest setting neutral monsters should never or almost never bother the human player. I don't play on those settings, so perhaps it is this way already. On medium, or neutral, or what ever the setting is called, the human player and the AI player are supposed to be on even footing. Even footing! When I watch a huge stack of neutral AI monsters sit right next to the computer AI controlled town for hundreds of turns, then destroy it the turn after I take it, that is not on an even footing.

 

So for crying out load, make neutral monsters treat the human player and the AI player the same, at least on normal. Harder settings? That is a different can of worms. I see no reason why neutral monsters shouldn't be meaner to the human character. Still be careful though, because we all know there are some monsters at the very beginning of the game that no army can touch.