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Brad’s random FE Beta 3 opinions

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Brad’s random FE Beta 3 opinions

from JoeUser Forums

As you may imagine, with each iteration, we internally pepper Kael with our own ideas and suggestions.  In no particular order these are some of the ones I’ve put in so you get a flavor of the feedback that poor Kael has to deal with daily. Smile

  • Every champion should have a unique ability – ex: give Baco “Destiny’s Gambler” spell where the player can spend 50 mana and get a random result, mostly good but some bad.
  • Move random events away from being random and into being “choices”. For instance, an event that currently just random makes everyone go to war instead turns into a council where everyone votes on whether to have a war of finality or an emissary comes and demands you give them 10% of your income, if you fail fortresses appear on the map that begin attacking everyone.
  • Have Civ techs that cause Outposts to get guards and expand influence so that you don’t need as many late game.
  • Have weapons and armor that are “better” but cost significantly more resources so that the player with more stuff can fight a war of attrition.
  • Have quests tend to give players access to more spells so that they’re more compelling. Getting a magic axe is less interesting and gets repetitive. Getting a random magic spell, by contrast, would make the finite # of quests have far greater replay ability.
  • More terrain types (especially snow at the poles).
  • Outpost specialization (late game, spend money to upgrade outposts that have an impact on the ZOC they control)

Now coming up in beta 4 is the new city system which will result in smaller looking cities (far fewer tiles on the map) but a lot more city improvements to choose from in total but fewer in a particular city (cities will specialize and that specialization will make available exclusive techs that require that city type). But that won’t be coming for awhile. But just something to remember when making requests on cities.

Mind you, these are just suggestions and may never make it in.  There are a lot of good ideas that get made everyday but there’s finite time and budget and the game has a very specific design that is being carried out on schedule that has done well so far.  But as we do iterations of a beta, there’s room for adjustments still.

220,338 views 53 replies
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Glazunov1, reply 25
Did I willfully miss it, or has nobody asked yet when Beta 4 will arrive? 

 

My thoughts: hold it off until it truly feels done.  Don't push it out the door to capitalize on an enthusiasm which will be there, anyway.

Think we are quite a ways off from Beta 4, however Frogboy or Derek mentioned that we should get quite a few rapid updates of Beta 3.

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

Beta 4 is in the summer are some point.

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top

Good.  I was concerned it might be rushed because of the begging folks.

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

i completely agree with really expensive uber equipment.  it should be something reserved for small amounts of elite units, and have the regular standing army with stuff like spears and what not.  i also hope for much less tile placement.  i don't really care for the tile system. i just don't see any benefit, just more tedium.  i would much prefer more attractive distinct cites that grow out organically based on choices you make instead of placing another square tile.  if placement isn't going to mean anything then i say throw it out.

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Yay yay yay! 

 

These all sound awesome!

Reply #31 from Elemental Forums Top

Brad -

 

1. Love your ideas, especially the one about outpost upgrades and very expensive / unique high-level weapons and armor

2. Keep up the good work, and always bear in mind that for every rude or offensive fan there are hundreds of appreciative, rational, mature FE fans who really love the way this game is shaping up :)

3. Is there any chance that the game, even through expansions or mods, will give the player the ability to craft their own items in-game? This is a pet peeve of mi and I loved being able to do it in MoM ...

 

Best , Yanni

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

The beta is very good and the best instalment of elemental I have yet played. With regards to the OP, I'm particularly looking forward to outposts gaining defenders, terrain changes, and no longer having to worry about whether a city will be able to fit in the location I have identified.

 

The idea of players being able to gold-plate their units if they have the resources is an interesting one. The idea, I assume is that you can get similar advantages (attack bonuses etc) that you would get through technologies, before you have those techs, by spending extra resources. It would be nice to have this option.

 

But I think this (as well as most enchanted items) could be presented with much more elegance and flexibility. Instead of having 10 different “magic axe,” “flame axe,”  “magic spear,” “flame spear” and now what I assume will be “masterwork axe” and “masterwork spear,” why not just have axes and spears, and a separate page of “enchantments” including magic, flame and masterwork, and then let me combine them as I like?

 

This seems better in almost every regard, except perhaps in regards to upgrading. But, no offence, I think the current upgrading system sucks and that few people are using it anyway. It’s far too expensive and it forces me to always upgrade to levels beyond what I may want. And even if it did work well, all it succeeds in doing is stopping me from designing units, which is one of the game’s best features. It would be far better to just encourage people to design new units and enable upgrading AS WE HAVE ALWAYS ASKED FOR IT (in both elemental and gal civ): allow us to return a unit to the recruitment queue, with the old unit as a discount on the costs of the new one.

 

I’m rambling I know. But I’d just like to finish be stating my main problem with the game is still the sheer fact that I can march from my city to the enemy’s and conquer it in about 5 turns. That’s just too quick and too easy, and so long as I can do this the AI is always going to struggle. I talked about this in more detail here.

 

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top


I've been reading the forum and noticed a lot of talking about pioneers and outposts. Gathered some ideas here. Tell me what do you think about it. Sry about the big post, but the ideas kept flowing.

I propose a system where your outposts can evolve with the game giving them some bonus and diferentiation. This way you can choose the best way to specialize the oupost depending on your demands for it. If you built an outpost near a bunch of resources, you should increase its eficiency on harvesting. If the oupost was built just to secure some are or blocking some player advance, it should have military traits. I got the numbers out of my head, so it will need lot of tweaking. For each branch there is always two new possibilities. This is the general idea:



LVL 1

Outposts: gives 1 ZoI, minor local defensive bonus (on the outpost tile), 1 upkeep. (Need pioneer)

 

Lvl 2

Military outposts:  medium local defensive bonus, +1 ZoI, 2 upkeep. (Need minor military tech)

Magic outposts: bonus on local spell manacost and spell resist, loses defensive bonus, 3 upkeep. (Need minor magic tech)

Civil outposts: +1 ZoI, minor discount building improvments in ZoI, 2 upkeep. (Need minor civ tech)

 

LVL 3

- Military

Keep: major local defensive bonus, 3 upkeep. (Need medium military tech)

Headquarters: medium local defensive bonus, militia units, 4 upkeep. (Need medium military tech)

 

-Magic

Magic Hold: another minor bonus on spell manacost and effectiveness, minor magic resist bonus, +1 research, 4 upkeep. (Need medium magic tech)

Amplifier: minor bonus to shard harvesting, minor bonus on local spell manacost, 5 upkeep. (Need medium magic tech)

 

-Civil

Cottage: minor local defensive bonus, +minor prestige, 2 upkeep (Need medium civ tech)

Harvester: minor bonus on resource gathering, no defensive bonus, 4 upkeep (Need medium civ tech)

 

LVL 4

 

- Military

->Keep

Fortress: huge local defensive bonus, 4 upkeep. (Need major military tech)

Castle: major local defensive bonus, militia units, 5 upkeep. (Need major military tech)

->Headquarters 

Comand Center: +1 ZoI, major local defensive bonus, militia unit, guardian, 8 upkeep.

Guerrilla Comand: atrition damage on the ZoI, medium local defensive bonus, 2X militia units, 6 upkeep.

 

-Magic

->Magic Hold

Arcane Fortress: medium bonus on spell manacost and effectiveness, major magic resist bonus, minor local defensive bonus, 6 upkeep. (Need major magic tech)

Magic College: another minor bonus on spell manacost and effectiveness, minor magic resist bonus, magic militia, +2 research 7 upkeep. (Need major magic tech)

->Amplifier:

Arcane Amplifier: major bonus to shard harvesting, major bonus on local spell manacost, 8 upkeep. (Need medium magic tech)

Long Range Amplifier: +1 ZoI, medium bonus to shard harvesting, medium bonus on local spell manacost, 8 upkeep. (Need medium magic tech)

 

-Civil

->Cottage: 

Borough: medium local defensive bonus, +medium prestige, militia unit, 2 upkeep (Need major civ tech)

Village: minor local defensive bonus, +minor prestige, generates people, 4 upkeep (Need major civ tech)

->Harvester: 

Intensive harvester: major bonus on resource gathering, no defensive bonus, 6 upkeep (Need major civ tech)

Extensive harvester: medium bonus on harvesting resources, no defensive bonus, +1 ZoI, 6 upkeep. (Need major civ tech)

 

The bonus are additive. So every time the outpost level up the new bonus stack. There will also be an upgrade cost each time.

 

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Reply #34 from Elemental Forums Top


upgrade seem nice, but what is point if someone build three outpost next to each other to upgrade all of it? better go with it in ome package.

Reply #35 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Humility, reply 34

upgrade seem nice, but what is point if someone build three outpost next to each other to upgrade all of it? better go with it in ome package.

 

the upkeep cost should be adjusted to prevent it...

Reply #36 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting PanicWave, reply 35



Quoting Humility,
reply 34

upgrade seem nice, but what is point if someone build three outpost next to each other to upgrade all of it? better go with it in ome package.


 

the upkeep cost should be adjusted to prevent it...

That as well as the minimum tile distance between outposts. Although it would be kinda cool to see two civs build up a border of fortresses next to each other with a DMZ of sorts between them.

Reply #37 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting jackswift85, reply 36

That as well as the minimum tile distance between outposts. Although it would be kinda cool to see two civs build up a border of fortresses next to each other with a DMZ of sorts between them.

 

I'd love to see a spell that let you not only summon a monster on the strategic screen, but set it to patrol between two points and attack anything not owned by your side.  Don't think it will happen, but it's nice to dream.

Reply #38 from Elemental Forums Top

Brad/Derek - please do something about player ability to ninja monster loot. Stealing from a monster and then killing it with the stolen loot is... cheese. Speaking of cheese, in my current game I had a 3 hero stack early game. Ran into a Shrill Lord stack, too powerful at the time to take on. However, I split my 3 hero stack into individual units, kited the Shrill Lord stack off the lair, and proceeded to ninja the loot. I was like, holy crap I'm brilliant, and then felt ashamed. Very ashamed. I also ninja'd Torax's area but he's somehow loose destroying my cities... you reap what you sow!

At any rate I recommend the lair remain defended by the main mob at all times - let the spawns patrol around. The other thing you could do is not allow sacking of the lair until the main mob is defeated but that's rather cheesy too.


 

Reply #39 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting AlLanMandragoran, reply 38
At any rate I recommend the lair remain defended by the main mob at all times - let the spawns patrol around. The other thing you could do is not allow sacking of the lair until the main mob is defeated but that's rather cheesy too.

I agree that the main mob should always be on their lair, with lesser monsters spawning from them and moving about the map. By increasing the difficulty of the main mob, this would also make it more difficult to clear out areas of the map completely. As it stands now, this happens too easily and too frequently. I should not able to march my army through the wilderness and never have to worry about monsters in that area again.

Reply #40 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting AlLanMandragoran, reply 38
Brad/Derek - please do something about player ability to ninja monster loot. Stealing from a monster and then killing it with the stolen loot is... cheese. Speaking of cheese, in my current game I had a 3 hero stack early game. Ran into a Shrill Lord stack, too powerful at the time to take on. However, I split my 3 hero stack into individual units, kited the Shrill Lord stack off the lair, and proceeded to ninja the loot. I was like, holy crap I'm brilliant, and then felt ashamed. Very ashamed. I also ninja'd Torax's area but he's somehow loose destroying my cities... you reap what you sow!

At any rate I recommend the lair remain defended by the main mob at all times - let the spawns patrol around. The other thing you could do is not allow sacking of the lair until the main mob is defeated but that's rather cheesy too.


 
That is not cheey, that is hummm brilliant plan of fool a enemie and take his stuff behide his back, so it's not cheat, it is? That's a skill. How can be that cheat? LOL Personal that monster should not leave his stuff on ground, it's his fault not hold stuff with himself.  Why would monster leave item on a ground for someone taking?

Reply #41 from Elemental Forums Top

I have seen seen some smart monsters that doubled back and killed my sneaking unit. But since the AI can't do it, it is an exploit.

Reply #42 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Naidrev, reply 39
I agree that the main mob should always be on their lair, with lesser monsters spawning from them and moving about the map. By increasing the difficulty of the main mob, this would also make it more difficult to clear out areas of the map completely. As it stands now, this happens too easily and too frequently. I should not able to march my army through the wilderness and never have to worry about monsters in that area again.

Exactly. I will also add that like in WoM maybe the wandering monsters should form groups. Only when lairs fall under a players ZoC should the boss monster leave to attack the city, and then return.

Reply #43 from Elemental Forums Top

# Have Civ techs that cause Outposts to get guards and expand influence so that you don’t need as many late game.
# Have quests tend to give players access to more spells so that they’re more compelling. Getting a magic axe is less interesting and gets repetitive. Getting a random magic spell, by contrast, would make the finite # of quests have far greater replay ability.
# More terrain types (especially snow at the poles).
# Outpost specialization (late game, spend money to upgrade outposts that have an impact on the ZOC they control)

 

YES YES YES

 

Outpost specialization and automatic guards......PLEASE ADD THIS. I want outposts to have more meaning and while your at it increase their cost or give them an upkeep while adding some outpost SPECIFIC techs and I'd be happy as all hell.

 

No one makes a freaking fort to enforce their empires' will in a area without stationing a garrison. The current weak, defenseless (and practically costless) outpost spam makes no damn sense at all!

Reply #44 from Elemental Forums Top

every single one of brad's suggestions should be in the game, especially #2

Reply #45 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting AlLanMandragoran, reply 9
Ponies?

 

+1  All colours and sizes please.

Reply #46 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Tattyhat, reply 45



Quoting AlLanMandragoran,
reply 9
Ponies?



+1  All colours and sizes please.

Ponies:  +1 mana, because friendship is magic.

I would hate to work for Stardock.  Nothing like having some "ideas" floated by you and then posted on the internet to put on added pressure.

As for the actual "examples" posted:

•Every champion should have a unique ability
Why?  Can't some just be vanilla champion types who are waiting to be molded?  I like growing my own champions, not being handed some pre-defined character.
•Move random events away from being random and into being “choices”.  For instance, an event that currently just random makes everyone go to war instead turns into a council where everyone votes on whether to have a war of finality or an emissary comes and demands you give them 10% of your income, if you fail fortresses appear on the map that begin attacking everyone.
Love this, hate the example.  What rationale is there for everyone suddenly forming a council and having some global effect come out of it?  This sucked in GalCiv and it would be even worse here.  There's no basis for it.  The choice/effect thing should be more localized.
•Have Civ techs that cause Outposts to get guards and expand influence so that you don’t need as many late game.
Ok I guess. 
•Have weapons and armor that are “better” but cost significantly more resources so that the player with more stuff can fight a war of attrition.
As long as the AI understands how to use it.
•Have quests tend to give players access to more spells so that they’re more compelling. Getting a magic axe is less interesting and gets repetitive. Getting a random magic spell, by contrast, would make the finite # of quests have far greater replay ability.
Big yes to this.  Anything to make getting spells more interesting.
•More terrain types (especially snow at the poles).
Meh.  How about improving the graphics for the terrain you have?  And why must there be snow at the poles?
•Outpost specialization (late game, spend money to upgrade outposts that have an impact on the ZOC they control)
More GalCiv stuff.  :|

Reply #47 from Stardock Forums Top

Double post

Reply #48 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Edwin99, reply 23
In D&D you had a mechanic for a chance to surprise the enemy in wilderness encounters.

To add variety to tactical combat, why not have a chance for the AI to surprise you and for you to surprise the AI


If you surprise (ambush) the other side, you have an option to have your units appear close to the enemy, a likely choice if I don't have ranged attack units in that stack.
If the enemy AI surprises you they have the option to have the AI units appear close to your units at the start of the tactical battle; most likely choosing close if they don't have ranged attackers.
The chance to surprise an army or be surprise would be based on your Wilderness Lore trait (Wilderness Lore I = 10% to surprise enemy, Wilderness Lore II= + 20% to surprise enemy, Wilderness Lore III = +20% to surprise enemy.

Example:

Army B with Wilderness Lore III (50%) surprises enemy Army B (Wilderness Lore II - 30%) and has 20% to surprise the Army B. He surprises Army B and decides to have a close encounter. Army A appears close to the enemy on the tactical battlefield.

They have this in Total War: Shogun 2 (Awsome game. The best of the Total War Series.) However I did not know this until last night when the AI Abushed me as my troops were heading for his city to "vist" :)  I was floored it was so awsome.  He won the battle. The lesson  I learned in that ambush is to not bring Swords and Bows to a Gun fight. :)

Reply #49 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Bellack, reply 48

He won the battle. The lesson  I learned in that ambush is to not bring Swords and Bows to a Gun fight.

 

Put your heavy infantary on loose formation and run for the kill.

Horses helps a lot...

Reply #50 from Elemental Forums Top


A little nervous on smaller cities. I like the feeling that urban spawl has, when you have leveled up a lot of your cities to metropolises. I also don't mind having small towns as well and slums for the spice of life mainly variety but I think the option should remain to have multiple city sizes. But I will keep an open mind. :)