I just have to ask if you remember any of this?

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"(I'm up north on vacation typing on an extremely slow connection so bear with me)

@Frogboy

Let us, the community, shoot down other bad suggestions and comments. I realize that you are probably frustrated over the fact that you work your ass of every day to make this game better and it still doesnt increase the game to a level where everyone is happy about how the game is progressing or how fast its progressing. However, you come across as super defensive, arrogant and unprofessional when posting things like "Then why not do both yourself and us a favorite and go away?". This must be some sort of meltdown on your part. No developer in their right mind would post that, it doesnt really matter if you are right or not. If something is too complicated or too late to change or is just a suggestion that you think will take the game in the wrong direction then just post an explanation as to why that suggestion wont work, then we can just reference that post if someone else posts a similar suggestion in the future.

Also, I think you need to realize that there are a lot of people here that have played this game many many hours and that have a very good understanding of the game and of what is and isnt working. 

I voted Fair; there are many performance issues, GUI issues and bugs that makes the Beta 3 experience kinda rough. I will do some testing with different settings to try to pinpoint what is causing the performance problems before I post a bug report. Right now I feel like other people are doing a great job with finding problems with the game mechanics, so Ill leave that to them.

Good suggestions from people!

For number 1, I believe you are referring to the fact that every champion can cast magic? I completely agree. I think most of the champions should not have access to magic spells. Not only are channelers suppose to be rare, but it makes my sovereign seem boring and un-unique by comparison. I think champions should be more focused in general, with "Path of the..." promotions being assigned to them at level 1, and only Path of the Mage champions having magic.

So how would someone get champions with magic if they can't find a mage to hire? Bring back the marriage system. Simplify it, perhaps, so the player just gets a random child with one or two magic spheres from the parent. This would encourage alliances with other factions, as you can get their spell spheres. It doesn't have to be complicated. But it helps the player become immersed in the story to have a wife and family to protect.

YES PLEASE! This is such an obvious and simple solution to this problem, I can't believe no one else mentioned it. If nothing else is done to stop negative spells from being cast on your cities, this will be a good enough way to stop it from being annoying.

Similarly, I think casting positive enchantments on another player's city should give you a diplomacy bonus.

Well stated.

@ the Stardock Team

Good work on the Beta.  I enjoy playing immensely.

Yes, it makes me hesitant to post critism with this type of reaction.  I don't think anyone will disagree that the game has made a lot of progress.  I like all the new work that has been added and I realize how much work has been done, but the community wants it to be a really great game with lots of replayability.  I think it would be nice to respond more to the people who are giving good feedback and ignore the obvious trolls.

Really, I think the main issue right now is balance, and because of this, it is hard to appreciate all the intricacies of what is already in the game.  Personally, I think balance and ironing out those annoying bugs (like tactical battles freezing - which can be a buzz kill) should be the first priorities before adding more features.  But then again, I'm not a game designer, so maybe this isn't the best way to do things.

My first main playthrough for Beta 3 was fire/death mage, Magnar. I found the level-ups quite boring, especially at the higher levels.

Last night I made a custom Tarth sovereign, melee fighter with earth magic only, took him down the assassin path, and it’s far more interesting. The ability to charge (can often close to combat in his first action), getting multiple attacks, pushing a high dodge to be able to survive closing with a lot of enemies.. Equipment is far more relevant and interesting as you are exposed to attacks constantly, whereas a mage is hanging back behind defenders and blasting away.

So basically my comment is that I think more work is needed on the magic path in terms of level-ups and equipment to make it more enjoyable.

Yep Brad's "not a game for you" comments to people who write constructive criticism with reasonable balancing ideas don't feel too good. Starts to feel a little like it was before WoM was released again. However FE is in a much, much better shape than WoM even though I agree with the balancing issues.

Makes me think that the man might be exhausted from such a long and painful development process from pre-WoM to this day. Three years of dealing with the community about the same game must be crazy taxing.

If city management is finally made meaningful with the balance corrections against city sprawl and easy to level super champs, this game might jump from fair to excellent in my eyes, save for the bugs of course. From that point on it's all about how excellent it will be.

If we thought FE was done, we would ship it.  It's still months away from being done. There is a lot of good feedback here.  Even the feedback I don't agree with is often very interesting and constructive.  

Purchasing a video game doesn't give someone the right to behave in a beastly way or abuse the people who made the video game.  The person I was responding to was behaving in a way that is not acceptable. 

If you think WOM's rough release means I'll put up with jerks on the forum, you took away the wrong lesson WOM's release.

I don't want to sound defensive but I thought I was pretty clear in precisely the kinds of feedback I have said makes me think a person is looking for a different game -- requests for elimination of the technology tree or that it all be randomized.

I think (I hope) people can see the difference between feedback suggesting that cities need to have more meaningful choices in them or that sovereigns need to get their magical spells from different sources versus demands that we jettison the game mechanics we have.  

In the post I responded to, I also tried to be clear that I might be misinterpreting what some users are requesting. 

And before someone else tries to throw the WOM towel at me again (because that never gets old), it's important to realize that (a) I'm not the designer of FE, and (b) this is one of 8 active projects that I'm involved in presently. I care about FE a great deal but at the end of the day, it's Kael's game and I think he's doing a terrific job.  

Frogboy is totally within his rights to say whatever he wants as long as he doesn't break a United States law with such comments.  Of course he can come off arrogant or cocky... he has to be.  You don't become a leader of men by always second guessing yourself.  I know it is hard for some to understand, but do you think your super hero sovreigns are not confident in their abilities to rule kingdoms? No one would follow if they thought the head guy didn't know if he could handle it. How many hours of Brad's life has went into building his company and working on software or ideas for other's enjoyment?  Way more than one of you played a stupid video game for.

However, Frogboy has to be smart to not let his anger and his posts get the better of him.  Everyone has their days, but Frogboy you need to realize most of these posters give you money.  Annoy or disregard enough of them and it will spread like wildfire and you will most definitely have to go start working on another franchise or game because this one will have a tough time reaching the audience you want it to.  You've done the research... you know the 4X strategy game market is not the biggest market.. Also if I hear one more developer whine about gamer entitlement... Jesus.  GAMER'S pay the bills.. as long as they don't attack you personally.. quit crying.

I like where FE is at and possibly is building toward. Is it my favorite game? No. However, some of you act like that if this game isn't the greatest game to ever grace this world that it will be a failure and you will never buy another Stardock product again. Quit crying, it ain't that serious.  If the game came out today with the current mechanics with most bugs taken care of course; I would personally rate it an 8/10.  Not bad for a game still months away from even thinking about releasing.

I think it's time to link to this 4 year old post: https://forums.galciv2.com/312130

Nevertheless, kudos to your post.

Doesn't load for me Brad. I'm sure it will be funny... eventually. Thanks for the kudos, kudos to you for being so open and running a company that makes so much stuff that I personally like.

Typing this via iPad...

Long story / short: I started stardock in college and made my first game as a result of of arguing tbs design on usenet. My background is EE, not business. So my motivation to make games is premised on arguing with other gamers. The game is a byproduct. 

I voted Excellent, because that's what this game is. (Ignoring the bugs of course...)

This game really is fantastic in it's atmosphere, visuals, and mechanics, truely a strategy game set in an RPG world. Sometimes I feel like I'm moving my troops through some place like The Swamp of Sorrows or The Blasted Lands, and thats a good thing. I can remember when I was younger, playing Final Fantasy and grinding my troops up to the level cap, but when I did that all there was to fight was an epic boss, and always in the same world, now I can grind up my roster of characters and use them to topple empires! All the while maintaining a mighty host and building a powerful nation of my own! I love it!

One thing I do have to say in regards to balance: I'm not sure if this is what you're ultimately wanting, but it seems there is a point in the game where you can just start laying waste to any army that sets foot outside a town with spells like 'Shooting Star', have you considered cloaking or shielding spells, strategically? Like the missile defense upgrade in Civ, but with less finality, something that might need an upkeep of a lot of mana to protect a key army or city and even then there is a chance the spell could get through anyway. Just a though.

Otherwise keep up the fantastic work! I love the Iron Golems especially, I think they are my favorite unit!

PS: I'm not sure I understand all the hate in this forum... I though I was in the Stardock forums, not the Blizzard forums...better check my browser tab again...

Just saying how it seemed like you were starting to get frustrated with a lot of us (even the good guys), which to me feels understandable all things considered. Also wanted to voice my support.

I think I've played the beta of FE more then I played WOM in total, so that's a positive sign.

I'm impressed with the Beta.  I like the look and feel of the game.  You guys have done a terrific job improving on the core concepts that WoM had.  Looking forward to playing the full game when it becomes available. 

Ok, so are everyone's feelings in tact? Who cares if Brad is or isn't being a meanie (which I don't think he is)? Even if he is, and SD makes a great game, like I think they are, and it isn't even Brad's game, you're going to buy it anyways. Anyone who says "i was going to buy that awesome game but then a dev on the forums hurt my feelings" is a complete tool.

Have you heard about the next big update to cities? Maybe, just MAYBE that will change something about CITIES... and who knows, maybe that will CHANGE something about the way cities WORK.

In the meantime I just saved a game a little more than half-way through a Medium map with 5 opponents, 3 set to Hard and 2 set to Challenging... And I couldn't expand beyond 2 cities, and my plans for a second outpost were interrupted by a Death Demon that would kick my OP sov's ass. And then I got rudely invaded by the Magnar with some slave armies... luckily I had already planned to build an early game army because I was cornered in some mountains with nowhere to go. Then I captured a major Gilden city, then I made peace with them... all the while battling the Magnars all over the freaking place. They kept destroying my stuff and upgrading their units.

Chasing the Magnar around the map, because they had expanded all over the damn place, I came across giant smashy-smashy Fire Elemental/Demon guy (I forget his name). I watched him smash one of the grey faction's armies and cut their faction power in half with a single battle... That was cool. Then I found the Resoln emperor out there too... And he was more than twice the level of my OP sovereign. Apparently the lol lol 'winning' forum troll strategy of pioneer spam is a complete failure when you can't expand and get freaking INVADED. And I was delighted.

Obviously more testing needs to be done, but maybe some of you should try more opponents on higher difficulties? I was having a blast. GG Stardock.

Ha! Playing a large map as Magnar on Challenging with all players. Ninja'd Torax's area a bit earlier but left him in there. Anyway, just mopped up Yithril and now Torax is loose from his area rampaging. He just took out one of the cities I took from Yithril. Totally unexpected and awesome! Now I'm scratching my head on how to handle that beast... fun stuff.

Seriously, guys, at this point we can't expect the game to be revolutionized once again. Everyone is going to get something he doesn't like. I'm not a fan of Spells acquired through heroes instead of Research, and I absolutely hate "unlockable" heroes and lairs. Both are gonna stay. I just hope the rest of the game will make me forget about these issues, that or mods.

Right now it's about the missing phases (finishing faction differentiation and then work on cities). Imho, ONCE EVERYTHING is in, a massive effort in balancing all the features together is required. I say stick to the plan or it's easier to derail :) 

Continues to be a game I come back to regularly and the increased differentiation between factions is welcome. Whilst I make huge use of cloud walk--which essentially allows the player to only spend money on one super army-- on the rare occasions when I have not had an air mage by the time war becomes inevitable the lack of this spell makes winning almost impossible as the AI spends a lot more on armies than seems reasonable . 

I don't think there is a big disconnect there. Many (most?) of the people saying that cities need more specialization are talking about the mechanics and gameplay involved with cities, while Stardock's plans to make cities smaller are at face glance about appearance. In fact digging slightly deeper both are aligned because in theory stopping drawing each individual building on the main map will make it easier to add many more building options to cities thereby adding more depth to the city gameplay mechanics.

However I must say that much as I can see it might be necessary and I prefer gameplay over visuals, I will miss having city buildings visible on the main map... it was something unique and fun.

Seems to be 2 major camps

1) NO meaningful choices camp

2) NO Diversity (in spells, units) camp

There's a overlap of course but those in #1 tend to be talking more about how one strategy typically city/outpost spamming + killer unit sovereign + champion owns everything. 

Seriously, I am in awe of such godlike players that in less than a week, they know what strategies are unbeatable and the best. and not only that, they know what exactly is wrong and how to fix the game by fundamentally changing the design. *clap* *clap*

All joking aside, I not sure why improvements in AI and game balancing tweaks won't result in "meaningful choices" without any fundamental changes in the design.

Even if the major changes are made, and you have "meaningful choices", you will still probably figure out a OP Strategy to kill the AI, then you will be back to yelling about how there are no meaningful choices because you can kill the AI just by doing A,B,C

I am from the "lack of diversity" camp. people from my camp need a lot less expertise, we just compare the variety of spells, unit ablities in FE VS MOM/Aow and we can start spamming the forums ;p  . Heck you could throw us spells that are objectively weaker but cool in effects and we would still cast them just to enjoy the effects. But what we are unhappy about is the focus on direct damage spells (cool fx though), we want more summons, more duels of magic... etc.. 

SD Should just ignore the first camp and work on pleasing the second camp. A lot easier to throw plenty of unique content to us and see what sticks, then to try to create a game that is so balanced, that at any time every or most options are equally meaningful. 

Making a video game gives you the right to behave in a beastly way or abuse the people who purchase the video game? Sounds like a load of hypocritical nonsense to me.

The lesson I took from WOM's release was this: