BETA 3: Verdict!

I voted fair. There is a lot of cool new stuff but it is overshadowed by all the balance issues that have popped up.

Game is getting better, but there are still a few issues:

• Texture related issues are still present: https://forums.elementalgame.com/422893
• AI is still getting it's butt kicked on challenging.
• Still many presentation / interface related rough edges that need polish.
• Pacing could be improved.

Massive improvement! I really cannot stress how much better the game has gotten so please don't take my criticism personally.

There are still tons of bugs (which is expected) and still a lot of core features so unpolished that they basically don't exist yet (AI, navy/sea(?), diplomacy, unrest, random events*, ponies, etc). I don't want to spam you guys with bug reports since there are so many new ones from this version that I am sure you are aware and working on most of them. I will just record them and wait until next patch to post any that are still unresolved.

* I read that they should be working properly but I've never seen one unless I am missing some non-obvious trigger

I hate to say this but I think the game is rapidly reaching the point where community feedback is worthless when it comes to polls. Reading the forums here is starting to be about is fun as watching a Star Trek convention question and answer session.

As much as I don't want to belittle all the great work that went into Beta 3, I still can't vote above "fair" yet.

The real weak link at the moment is expansion and city management.  There really isn't anything to it beyond "do nothing but spam mass pioneers,  build tons of outposts and cities until you have physically run out of resources and space, then sit on them and collect the rewards".  I actually just did a huge write-up about this (https://forums.elementalgame.com/422919), so I won't repeat it here, but it's definitely worth thinking about.

I also feel like magical progression is way out of whack due to how you learn almost every spell there is from your first few level-ups killing bandits and ogres, leaving the actual magical research tree almost nothing to contribute beyond military equipment, but I haven't quite organized my thoughts about that yet.

I voted fair. I haven't been compelled to keep playing after a few turns. E:FE was fun at first and I enjoyed a great many hours of it. But the excitement over newness faded during Beta 2. So now the true test of replayabilty can be gauged. I'm not finding it. I fire up a game, play a few turns, then exit. I think it's due to a lack of city build options/specializations/decisions/strategy. Might as well auto-build them upon learning requisite tech. I wouldn't like that, but in the current game it seems we may just as well. Tech and building selections are more like chore, than choice. 

i voted good because its a very big improved from beta 1 and 2 

I think maybe this game isn't really for some of you guys.  I mean no disrespect but I think some of you may want to just find another game to play. I don't see a scenario where you're going to be satisfied with the direction we're going.  

I did read your post, DragonRider/DSRaider, it was very well thought out. But it's not the game we're making.  The ideas I've seen posted are an anathema to my own game playing preferences.There are a couple of very promising 4X fantasy games coming out this Summer that might suit you.  

And I'm not even implying that I think you're wrong.  I'm saying that the game *we* want to make is substantially different than the game you want this to be. Maybe the market will decide you're right and we're wrong. In which case, we'll have to find other types of games to make instead.

I know I sound like a broken record, I've been saying this same thing for a long time. And while there are some significant additions/changes coming (for instance, city specialization and fewer tile cities, more content of course, and other polish and improvements), we're not looking to turn FE into some radically different game than what you are playing now. 

Obviously, I could just be mis-reading your feedback and that you're looking for balance changes and such. But my interpretation of some of the posts is that they're looking for something very different (i.e. getting rid of outposts, having the tech tree change dynamically based on what you choose, getting rid of the sovereign unit, etc.).  Those are just not on the table. Not because it's too late (we're still almost half a year from our earliest possible release date), but because we like these mechanics.

Massive improvement over previous beta. Yes there are bugs. I have played a few games. Two I stopped as I was in such a frustrating area that I couldn't expand out surrounded by high level monsters. They effectively prevented me from achieving a sufficient level to destroy them. When I finally broke out the other factions were so  much stronger that I got chomped. No matter. 

I am now playing a long game and I agree that pacing is my main issue. Everything takes AGES to build train etc. Then you reach a point and it no longer matters. I have two deadly armies romping and stomping everything in their path.

I find Diplomacy mildly confusing at times. I am not sure what trading research points does (I will see if info in forum). And in diplomacy treaties are "available" but often cannot be clicked on.

The tech tree is the other bugbear; you basically have no choice, you end up taking all advances given sufficient time. Your choices don't change future options and (as in previous builds) you end up selecting same things in similar order in every game you play.

Bottom line for me it is good and verging on very good - but more polish to get to excellent.

Huh? Random events? Is that a joke?

Solid improvement over Beta 2. I like the champions guardians, the new quests, the new spells and tech tree variablility.

I would lilke to see;

1. More aggressive AI - this includes a more aggresive Easy AI
2. Opposing armies tend to use all the same spells, would like to see greater variety
3. Greater variety of new spells and would like to see more summoning spells. Would like to see more random spell books or quest spells. Spells that affect the tactical battlefield.
4. More quests with unique rewards - trained bear, service of a champion for x turns, etc.
5. More unique magic items - wand with x charges, ring invisibility

Those are all coming -- except easy AI part. Easy should be easy imo.

Joke as in you are getting a lot or joke as in you are getting none? I've only seen one person get one so far and that was like 15m ago, and apparently bugged.

It is starting to look like a good game.The bland faction issue is starting to be addressed and the graphics style is starting to look like a true fantasy game with some cool looking units and magic.Tactical combat is also getting funner.

Keep it up.

EFE is an excellent game and a lot of fun at this stage.    Of course there are improvements that would make the experience even better.    I agree with Edwin99's post on suggested further improvements.

Having said that the game - even at this beta stage - is very enjoyable.   It won't be what everyone who likes every type of game wants but I believe when it is compete it will be a classic of turn based fantasy 4X computer games.

I voted good. Reasons, one, the game looks great, graphically, especially when zooming into the cities and seeing all my little people hard at work (this is why I'm against single tile cities). I like seeing my cities grow and take up space like they should. Although I do recognize that it causes performance issues.

Secondly, gameplay is good for me minus the few glitches e.g like the Wildling archer fiasco today, his turn never ended and I watched my men die! I would however like the option to exist where I can promote existing units to to the next "group" levels when they are unlocked? Later in the game, the units you've made in turn 10 become kind of useless later in the game. Also when passing on a quest, it just disappears? Why? I might want to come back to it later.

Anyways I look forward to the next beta 

Fair, mostly due to skyhigh armor values, unblockable mass spells, Gilden getting heavy weapons and armor without encumbrance bonus, Yithril becoming more generic, shallow spell dmg system, annoying random techs, shallow Blood traits, no Umbar/Capitar and pathetic monsters.

Slave lords, graphical refinement, iron golems, new loot/spells/quests are good though.

I voted excellent. Excellent for the fact that this is a beta and excellent, because i think you are 100% on the right track. I love the faction diff. and i know there will come more of it. And with that and more quests, more spells, maybe more monsters this game is great fun. I would love to see more unique nonhuman units. (like the golems for gilden). Keep up the great work.

I know i sound like a fanboy. Maybe thats what i am. I don´t care....

EDIT/

@stupidity10

What monsters do you want to see? What is a nonpathetic monster?

I like the factions refinement thus far..though Magmar looks cartoonish/costumed human. If you are going beast races go 100% not star trek aliens. The world still isnt drawing me in there as there isnt enough visual diversity on the map. Doesnt seem like a world that just went through a cataclym. Zoom level still inst right. Buildings and characters look too small. Sovereign gets OP quick. Drops whole armies of spearmen on his own. Research progression is either too long or too short and as mentioned before there doesnt seem to be a lot of reason to vary that progression path from game to game.

I voted fair. I dont feel that is much different from the last build to honest. Its fun enough to play but doent hold my interest past midgame. One more set of crystal and iron ? eh. One more earth shrine ? eh. Another city to build that looks like the last one. eh. I'd design units but my sovereign rarely needs help.

As far as I can tell, E:FE is totally my kind of game. A sandbox 4x TBS with RPG elements and Tactical Battles. Like an AOW:SM but with deeper city management. And having a thought provoking tech tree. I hear dev talk of specializing cities and adding purpose to tech decisions. So I think I'm on-board with Stardocks vision. And then, with the power of modding, other games can be crafted which more specifically suit our long term tastes. But the basic game, I do feel is exactly the kind of game I'm looking for. Just needs more tech and building depth.

No differents?   You are joking, right? What game did you play? 

What I mean is that 85% of monsters you encounter can be easily killed by your Sov, most games I can settle like 3 cities and clear out all the monsters without even stopping to heal. Trolls, panthers, ogres, darklings, spiders all can dominated by Sov

I vote fair, due reason spell are limited and Random limited of spell isn't good thing, it's almost like Random weapon, you can't had mace in that game but had a sword, next game you can't had sword but mace, it's not good for one who playing mage who like choice many way, it's too limited to nothing, so mage had to be fighter most of part, due limited mana, ect...City limited too, it's seem I even can't build garden unless I pick garden level up, war of magic had both of those and I had no problem with system war of magic, sometime if not broken don't fix it, but war of magic do crash often but this game don't crash and it's run smooth but limited gameplay and replay vaule. That's two big reason at least, but I can't said about workshop, I like create my own map, but other than that it's fine and ok, faction gett better but some need work on it, some very weak while other had very good bouns. If this game had workshop and magic system almost like war of magic (not limited) and build everything and level up by bouns earing gold or mana, it's would be excellent.

Edit: oh, no respawn monster and hero, I don't know why some said this game is better than war of magic when I find war of magic is much better than this game, but sadly war of magic had crash problem with me while this game seem smooth.

Are you offering to refund the preorders if they dont like the direction of the game?

Overall, I think the game is going in the right direction.  It just needs more polish and balance.

I think champions are way OP.  I've played two games so far and my sovereign pretty much was a wrecking tank that just mowed down every monster and every city.  I had a few other champions as well that could single-handedly take out pretty much anything, especially with a few buffs (maybe I had too many shards). I had two mid-level champions that cleared out one of the "difficult" areas of the map and I was only on the second level of the warfare and magic tech tree - that just felt wrong.

I would like it so that most quests and most city sieges should require an army, not just a single champion, otherwise it just isn't fun or challenging.

Also the AI never seems to attack me (in the 2 games I've played).  I attacked them, because I got bored.  And I was playing on challenging both times.  The AI should definitely be more aggressive on harder levels (and also make sure they recruit/kill champions as they explore - I seem to have about 20 champions in my game - I can send in my save game file if you like).

I think the main issue is balance, and I think if you get this right so that the world feels more challenging each step along the way, this game will be great.