***SPOILER*** Gimme teh planetkillerz!

from Sins Forums

This is the thread dedicated to Vasari, more precisely to their planet-stripping ability, so anyone, who does not know, what is going on and does not want to be spoiled, before Vasari become playable, please do not read any further.

I hope this wont get deleted by mods, as there is going to be said nothing, what was not already said before by other people in other threads. I wanted to wait up until Vasari become playable, but playing for them on both beta 0.62 and 0.76 again, seeing the progress made, i would like to comment on the that Stripped to the Core thing, as i do not like, how the mechanic works. And why wait for Beta 3, if there is actually any chance, it might get changed, the sooner this is tackled, the better.

So my issue is the following: as already said before, when the Vasari Loyalists were said to "not to leave planets behind", together with a little hint at Deathstars and such, i expected their Titan to be some sort of Planetkiller, or later with more info available, more specifically, Planet Eater, Devourer, Stripper....in short, i thought, and i am sure i was not the only one, who expected the Stripped to the Core ability to be somehow "connected" to Titan.

Obviously this is not going to happen, for those who do not know, Stripped to the Core is the planetary ability, totally unrelated to Titan. It works only on your own planets (was known since the Yottsu´s thread on abilities and research topics), you basically scuttle planet like any other structure, then the planet blows and you get some nice money in return.

Now, while this is quite cool, compared to what i expected, its kinda underwhelming. Do not want to repeat now, but because last time it seemed to go unnoticed, you cant DeathStar planet without DeathStar, its really not the same.

So here is my plea: please, rework the entire mechanic. I really want to kill the planets, including the enemy ones, with my Vorastra, i basically preordered the game in anticipation of this particular thing. Because planetkillers are THAT cool. There is a reason, why they were in StarWars, Babylon 5, LEXX, Titan A.E., Andromeda, Enders game, Star Trek, etc, etc...

That would be all. Thanks for your attention.  Discuss...

6,190 views 54 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Also, because stripping planets without owning a titan is going to kill you in the long run, it only seems more logical to tie the tech to the titan itself. It would make the Vasari Loyalists that much cooler and would also make more sense when looking at the stripping proces. I mean, those resources have to go somewhere right? And the Titan is where you stack your resources when you plan on surviving without any planets. So just let it suck up the planet. It has a giant hole in the front anyway. Just let it have multiple purposes like that of the Jarassul class Evacuator. If it can suck in enemy ships why not let it suck in planet resources?

In other words, I second this idea.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

I also agree with this. I strongly believe that the ability to destroy any planet should be the Vasari Loyalists ultimate titan ability.

 

There are many ways it could be balanced - for one, being the ultimate, so this Titan has to be leveled and gained much experience to achieve the ability, and the player has already invested very heavily to build this Titan in the first place.

 

Also, it could be a channeling ability that takes a long time - say two or three minutes, during which the Titan can do NOTHING ELSE, it cannot fire on the enemy, use abilities, move etc. as all the energy the Titan generates is being used to destroy the planet.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Lord-Vale3, reply 2
I also agree with this. I strongly believe that the ability to destroy any planet should be the Vasari Loyalists ultimate titan ability.

 

There are many ways it could be balanced - for one, being the ultimate, so this Titan has to be leveled and gained much experience to achieve the ability, and the player has already invested very heavily to build this Titan in the first place.

 

Also, it could be a channeling ability that takes a long time - say two or three minutes, during which the Titan can do NOTHING ELSE, it cannot fire on the enemy, use abilities, move etc. as all the energy the Titan generates is being used to destroy the planet.

 

This. Additionally, the ability to attack enemy planets as well is pretty much balanced with the fact, you need to use the Titan to do it. I mean, currently, you can scuttle your planet just like that, no need for anything. You can literally blow 10 planets within single minute and your Titan can be somewhere else. You have more freedom than in situation, where the Titan would be involved, if anything...

 

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Yea the way it works now is simply too overpowered as well. You can stop an anemy players advance just by colonizing as many planets as you can and immediately stripping them afterwards, leaving nothing for the enemy left to use. When you need your titan to do this work, the enemy has more time to improvise and react appropriately.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

I back this idea, i think it would be really funny to jump in suck up the planet and leave. "hey dude wheres my planet", "BURP", "oh" lol
and if u can make it into the unprotected planets of an empire far from the frontline u can eat it from the inside out :P.
But as an extra ballencing idea (and also 1 that makes sense) the titan will be heavily slowed and phase generation being something like 1000x penalised coz of all the added mass making it hard to just go in suck it up in 3 mins then get out, giving the enemy chance for revenge on it.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Decimatarius, reply 5
[...]But as an extra ballencing idea (and also 1 that makes sense) the titan will be heavily slowed and phase generation being something like 1000x penalised coz of all the added mass making it hard to just go in suck it up in 3 mins then get out, giving the enemy chance for revenge on it.
I agree there should be some debuffs tied to the use of this ability, since it completely levels the map when used.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

dont the advent have this too? there's a research tech that gives you AM when you destroy a planet. I wasnt exactly sure how to do that, but based off what you said here, I think they can do it too.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Its more of a sacrifice of the population for certain effects. Like damage to enemy vessels. Or stealing AM.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Nice to see, that you people agree with me. Thanks for the support. If only somebody from the devs took notice of this thread. I seriously think about asking Yarlen or even better Blair Fraser (as he stated himself that Vasari Loyalists are his personal favourites in that gamespot interview) to take a look at this thread via PM. Stupid idea? :)

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Personally, I was half happy and disappointed in that Stripped to the Core was not the VLT's level six ability. I am sad because it would have been epic seeing a planet eaten, but I am also happy because it means that I get Stripped to the Core and a level six ability.

Personally, I think that it would hurt the VLT (at this point anyways) by having Stripped to the Core as its level six ability. (Also, eating a planet that does not belong to you does seem overpowered compared to the ALT's Repossession.) I suggest that you can only Strip a Planet if your titan is in the same gravity well.

Quoting SithLordAJ, reply 7
dont the advent have this too? there's a research tech that gives you AM when you destroy a planet. I wasnt exactly sure how to do that, but based off what you said here, I think they can do it too.

This tech takes effect when you cleanse a planet of heathens - after doing so, all of your ships get a  +15% antimatter regeneration.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

 

Quoting Yottsu, reply 10
Personally, I was half happy and disappointed in that Stripped to the Core was not the VLT's level six ability. I am sad because it would have been epic seeing a planet eaten, but I am also happy because it means that I get Stripped to the Core and a level six ability.

Personally, I think that it would hurt the VLT (at this point anyways) by having Stripped to the Core as its level six ability. (Also, eating a planet that does not belong to you does seem overpowered compared to the ALT's Repossession.) I suggest that you can only Strip a Planet if your titan is in the same gravity well.


 

Well, the ability could still target ships as well, so hypothetically, you would not have to lose it at expense of Stripped to the Core.

Alternatively, if it was possible by design, unlike all other titans/factions, to have this ultimate ability (as the planet stripping) not to be unlocked by leveling at level six, but exclusively by that "Stripped to the core" research, whenever you will be able to do it.

I do not get the last sentence, obviously you would be able to strip only the planet with the Titan in its gravity well, that is the whole point of this thread.  

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting SithLordAJ, reply 7
dont the advent have this too? there's a research tech that gives you AM when you destroy a planet. I wasnt exactly sure how to do that, but based off what you said here, I think they can do it too.

The have an ability to sacrifice the people on their own planet.  In return it damages structures and ships in neighboring gravity wells.  The planet doesn't get blown up, and the population eventually comes back.  Also, if you have a SB with the Advent version of provisional government, you keep control of the planet.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

I was surprised that it's notp the Titan's ability also. Who want's to scuttle planets. Also I want to destroy ENEMY planets. Even if I ahve to destroy their defenses first, this makes more sense.

 

Give it a huge recycle time, or possibly introduce teraforming ships so planets can be fixed (using lots of time and money of course, possibly improve other planet types.)

 

But just strip mining your own planets is rather underwhelming.

 

Vasari lose a bit of their fearsomeness if all they ar is just bad ecologists... I wanna EAT planets with my Titan, make it take a lot of time perhaps? So saviors from the other force can be sent? This is just *meh* sounding.

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

i agree. it would be pretty cool to have your titan eat up an enemy planet and them just watching it happen. this was also one of my most anticipated features about the game, i mean having a death star would just be intimidating. i will be disappointed if its not changed once the game is released.

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Don't nerf them cuz we haven't played them yet. Don't make Vasari into another useless faction like Advent.

 

 

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

Is it just me or does the idea of a ship significantly smaller than a planet eating a whole planet not make sense?

I play Vasari almost exclusively, but even so, I prefer it to be elsewhere.  What would be more awesome IMO would be if the Vasari titan could channel an ability that would lock down the gravity well's normal phase lanes while also opening up a phase node to it.

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Yottsu, reply 10
This tech takes effect when you cleanse a planet of heathens - after doing so, all of your ships get a  +15% antimatter regeneration.

I assume you've seen it work? I admit I haven't, but here's the tech:

-Cleanse and Renew: "The Unity's true followers gain the ability to harness antimatter from newly destroyed planets"

I do see that everyone has the option to abandon the planet. 

Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 16
Is it just me or does the idea of a ship significantly smaller than a planet eating a whole planet not make sense?
the Vasari Loyalist Titan is the largest Titan in the game. It really isn't that much smaller than a planet. If the animation for the stripping proces is done right, it could actually look believable. Think about the Ultimate ability from the Jarassul class Evacuator, which looks believable enough as well (at least to me).

Besides, it doesn't eat everything on the planet. Maybe a lot of rubble and rock could even be launched into the gravity in the form of debris or something. It should be possible, given the other new animations I have seen in the game so far...

Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 16
Is it just me or does the idea of a ship significantly smaller than a planet eating a whole planet not make sense?

I play Vasari almost exclusively, but even so, I prefer it to be elsewhere.  What would be more awesome IMO would be if the Vasari titan could channel an ability that would lock down the gravity well's normal phase lanes while also opening up a phase node to it.

Nobody says it would be more realistic. Its all about rule of cool. Stripping the planet with Titan will be way cooler than doing it by pressing Shift + S. Stripping enemy planet is way cooler than your own as well, it feels way more "intimidating".

In regard to the phase lanes locking down, why not, its not bad idea. But i would suggest to give this ability to the Vasari Rebel Titan. 

 

Anyway. how i imagine it the whole game mechanic to work:

You build the titan, research all the needed tech, perhaps strip your planets, go completely mobile. 

Then you proceed to attack enemy planet, once the enemy forces are gone, so your titan is safe, you use it to strip the planet -this can even take 2-3 minutes to be completed, and i do not mind, if the current animation of the process stays, it would be just accompanied by same effect visually like the Drain Planet of Evacuator, when you see that green stream of particles to go from the planet toward the maw of the Titan.

At the end of the process, once the planet is scuttled, for the money you got from it, you would use the fleet beacon to replace your causalties (it would cost money, otherwise no point in sucking the planets, if you get ships for free) and then go on to the next planet, rinse and repeat.

Just one little thing, as an incentive to scuttle your own planets as well, the Dark Fleet ability would activate only, when you have no planets at all, so if you wanted to replace ships via the beacon (more convenient way), you would really have to risk and get rid of all your planets.  

Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 16
Is it just me or does the idea of a ship significantly smaller than a planet eating a whole planet not make sense?

 

Its the Vasari, masters of phase space - all the matter is sent through phase space and distributed across your empire. Easy fix.

Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top

Wait..  Do we have any pictures of the titan compared to other things/animations of planet destruction?

Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top

I could post a screenshot here, but I'm affraid they would nuke the thread if I did. Though if you check this video and pause it you can see the size of the titan. Check out the whole vid if you want to compare it with the size of the other titans.

Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 22
Wait..  Do we have any pictures of the titan compared to other things/animations of planet destruction?

The Vorastra is about 2x as big as Ankylon, or more precisely, its central part, with the maw and the tail, from the front to stern, minus the wings, is about as big as Ankylon.  

Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top

Oh, okay.  I guess if you made some special sort of animation you could pull it off..